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I can't agree, pitbull 'type' does not indicate it has a higher propensity to attack a person, however you can guarantee it's more likely to hit the headlines.

Ok, back in the UK, my next door neighbour had a very big rotti. He was not 80kg but certainly at least 65kg.

Qantas just flew my dog to Port Hedland from the NT... Australian Air freight had a poster pulled off the internet with all the usual banned breeds and to be honest they wouldn't know a restricted breed if they were walking one on a lead!

I think you've hit the nail on the head there BlackJaq. My blood pressure is much better with m-sass on ignore. Geez,the anti BSL crusade isn't looking good if you can't debate with me........the dog hating community who support BSL will dish out far more than I have......need to get your campaigns a bit stronger to be taken seriously from a legilsative standpoint??. People have given many alternatives i.e the Calgary the solution and posted links to read about how to get around this issue like many countries are doing right now, problem is many BSL supporters and bull breed haters can't be bothered to read them. Nothing is going to change your point of view so why should people bother debating with you, solutions to BSL and safe dogs in the community are out there but polititions are using these incidences to gain votes and put in ineffective laws, and are not willing to listen.

Thanks for that...........now hands up who owns a Lab or Golden here believes if he/she got out in the street they would be concerned the dog would go on a unprovoked killing rampage and do exactly what Ayen's killer did in the same circumstances? Secondly, hands up those who believe that if the keepers of Ayen's killer had a Lab or Golden instead of the piece of crap they had, that Ayen would still be alive? The owner f'd up, the dog from what i read had not previously shown this behaviour... so how are you to know if you've got a "piece of crap" dog or not... if your dog has not shown this behaviour how do you know your dog would never bite anyone?? Sure if my dogs bite anyone they will be PTS without hesitation (unless it's an intruder) Not many dogs at all would go on a "killing rampage", this is an individual case about an individual dog, same as all dog attacks, they're all different. SUre some can have a certain amount of similar precursory behaviour but if they don't show that until it happens we're all just guessing.

Just to add to the original topic, we had a Guide Dogs charity day in town the other day and the representatives from Darwin were saying that several guide dogs there have been attacked (didn't make the news) by wondering dogs and as such are now no good in service, and put the training figure at $10,000. The NT (& probably North WA) has the worst dog owners in Australia for wondering dogs dogs, the fact that guide dogs get harassed was always going to happen considering the amount of dogs that are just allowed to wander. My local council just shot 48 stray dogs, that's a few less that can come and follow us when walking. Trust me there's times when I just want to let my 2 dogs go when I'm fending off dogs who are allowed to roam (not just strays) and charge at me, the pram and the dogs. People are always saying bogan owners giving Bull breeds a bad rap, in the NT it's all owners, as a whole they're all piss poor and if the NT had any focus on dog attacks etc.. the way Victoria does, I'm sure it would be leading the stats.

I agree, and not all breeders are breeding for the same traits. I have yet to meet a pitbull breeder breeding for DA, contradictory to the common belief that just because someone is a Bogan BYB they all want a dog that will be DA/HA.

Then slow down. Instead of being committed to disagreeing with me, try a commitment to thinking carefully before you post. Those statements do not contradict each other. Doesn't interest me what others do. I evaluate what's said based on it's merit, not on how much support it draws from others. How bloody rude are you? How about you try a commitment to not patronising people you disagree with Lo Pan and take a break from dismissive comments designed to make you sound more intellecutal than others. It would be a nice change for you. You chose to start this "argument" by marking smart arse comments about my posts and you've disagreed with every point I've made (pretty rudely) while refusing to engage with facts, Why don't the two statements conflict?? How about some explanation rather than yet another assertion that a poster is not your equal. Comprehension is not evaluation. The fact you may not understand my points doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make you "right". Merit has jack sh*t to do with it if you're misunderstanding me and somewhat deliberately it seems. If you cannot see the conflict between this and this: then I give up. How can no probabilities apply to the characteristics of an individual dog of an individual breed if some traits occur more commonly in some breeds than others?? That's it from me. It's clear you're more interested in mocking me than explaining your postion. Sayonara I see both your points... I was born in an area with high crime, the majority of crime was committed by people from a certain area... so many factors come into play that you can't assume that just because someone is more "probable" to commit a crime from that area that they will do so, so we shouldn't cast aspersions over all of them, thus making both statements true to a certain extent.(take that person out of that area and the chance they will offend becomes less... see my point?) Every dog is different and will behave differently because of genetics and because of external influencing factors etc.. etc... I don't think this is a discussion that could prove one point over the other in it's entirety, having seen so many litter mates with varying traits but also similar ones..

Exactly, people in fear they can't go to obedience classes because someone will dob their dog in to the hotline and whammo no more family pet.

This is my view as well. The difficult part of the whole situation with pit bulls is that sure we should blame deed not breed, but when APBT are a banned breed, then those that are bred are more likely to be poor examples of the breed or crossbred, and like any breed that is poorly bred or crossbred, the reliability of temperament then goes out the window. That combined with the type of people most likely to be interested in a breed that is banned, and the level of care and training put into them, leads to poor outcomes for the dog, breed and community. And there in lies a major problem for the APBT, the fact they are banned only makes the breedings more difficult, go underground, unable to show for confirmation, sport, schutzhund or whatever.. there is no platform for the breed to improve because legislation is preventing the improvement of the breed as a whole, compounding the issue. If there was all of these outlets available to legitimate breeders then surely the breed would benefit...? Even though i don't agree with what some breeders are doing with the amstaff (i.e huge 40kg+ dogs) but atleast they're aiming for temperement.

I feel for you T. I have to keep a very close eye on my dogs too, because if there is another dog on the other side of the fence and the older dominant female can't chase it, she'll turn on my bigger male when he runs along side her wanting to take part in running along the fence. We're trying to stop this obviously. The male thinks this is fun though so will antagonise her until he gets a reaction which for the most part is playful but on 3 occassions (in 3 years) has turned into a fight when the female escalates her dominance and hurts him. Of course it is she who comes worse off. Each time it was quickly seperated and they were fine and carried on as if nothing happened.

Good on you, my 2 would possibly do the same. off topic but Today will be interesting as 2 large dogs have just moved in next door, we've already organised a walk together to get them used to seeing each other through the fence...

I don't think anyone has this notion. I do believe APBT breed fanciers are fed up with the "wipe them out" comments, and I don't think any of the comments are defending the dogs in question. What bull breed owners want is the media to stop shouting PITBULL at every oppurtunity, the circumstances of the attack to reported accurately to stop the scourge of negativity surrounding their breeds. What I've taken from most of the posters who are anti BSL, is that these dogs could've been prevented from being in this situation and it is entirely the owners fault, especially if he knew his dogs were an issue.

So you would rather Victoria carry on as is, instead of using this proven method that has reduced bite stats.... so over the next few years whilst they still continue to happen you'll be happy that you prefer laws that aren't working.. Let me put it this way, would you spend your hard earned money to buy a busted up old car that wont start knowing that it will never work, or chose a car that will start and drive you around quite effectively. The only reason you don't like it is because you don't like pitbulls, and this law doesn't ban them.

So my dogs don't have a right to live in your eyes because some other idiots can't look after their animals properly? What a silly comment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes - because thats pretty well how our society works. Laws are made to cater for the lowest common denominator and the rest of us have to wear the results. RIP Matilda -a horrid way to go. But you can see that comments like "they should be wiped out" aren't useful, don't impart any knowledge and don't constructively help anyone. ANY head strong dog (all breeds) with a high prey drive can be an issue in the wrong hands, regardless of size. FYI twice this week I've had an off lead GR run at me and my dogs, sure i wasn't worried but they came over to my dogs (on lead) to ponce around them and posture... Oblivious owner couldn't care that my 2 though not DA do not like other dogs putting their heads over them.. SO here's why nothing occurred: I have years of knowing my dogs, other breeds, triggers etc.. and this is what it takes to be an owner of any breed. Education for me started with my parents teaching me dogs behaviors, training classes etc.. which i'm now teaching my daughters. Could something have occurred..?? you bet and without training my dogs, myself and knowing a little about dogs in general helps. BSL doesn't.