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Green Frog Toxin

#1 User is offline   Stitch 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 08:48 AM

Last night I had a nasty experience with one of my girls who has the nickname of "Frogula" - sort of like 'Dracula' but not quite.

As you may guess, she is always on the look out for green frogs and of course toads.

Last night I was taking her outside for a toilet break (on the lead) but unbenownst to me she had obviously been watching a frog through the glass door. So, there was the big green frog sitting outside where I couldn't see it and when I led her out the door she immediately grabbed it!

Well she must have got quite a dose of the frogs "special protection anti dog toxin" and boy did she get sick.

It only took about 30 seconds and she couldn't walk, jaw clamped (luckily she had released the frog). She didn't froth at the mouth like they do with toads but obviously the toxin went straight to the nervous system and then the muscles.

I immediately washed her mouth out, it was very difficult to prise the jaws apart, wiped down all the teeth, gums, tongue and continued to do so for several minutes. She then vomited about 5 times over a period of say 10 minutes and was looking very poorly indeed. So bad in fact that I called the local emergency vet for some advice - which I found out they don't give so I won't do that again. They were distinctly unhelpful which I was disappointed in - I know they are operating a business but I thought they might be a bit more helpful.

Anyway, by that time she started to look a bit better and didn't look like she was holding her breath like she did before. She began breathing a bit more normally and after about 1 hour was almost back to her normal self.

From now on I will have to physically go outside and make sure there are no frogs in the general area before she can go out for her toilet break.

Just thought I would share as it does come as a shock that a reaction to frog toxin can be very severe - I have always been very careful when it comes to toads but frogs can be almost as bad and you can't screen frogs out of a dog exercise area as they climb!

#2 User is offline   Bullbreedlover 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 08:54 AM

Oh god
How horrible.
Poor girl.
I didnt know that frogs do have a toxin as well.
Alex loves to try and frog hunt(we dont have toads where we are)
He wont be doing that now
big hugs to your girl

#3 User is offline   Kirislin 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:06 AM

This is the first time I've heard that green frogs were toxic. I hope she learns to leave them alone, I love green frogs.

#4 User is offline   Monah 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:22 AM

I didn't know that either. How awful. My girls have around a dozen frogs here, different types of green ones, but have never had a problem. They do usually just check them out though although once or twice have given them a lick.
Thanks, I will now keep more of an eye on them, I usually am out there with them anyway to protect the frogs, just in case.

#5 User is offline   Tilly 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:02 AM

I asked about frogs a while ago when our GSD decided to play with one. Our boy was breathing fully and not his normal self. He got his mouth washed out and then he was confined to the puppy pen for the night.

Stitch provided the following response:

Quote

Green tree frogs are not poisonous like cane toads however they can have a very serious even fatal effect on some dogs.

Frogs exude a repellant, just like toads - it is their only protection against predators - toads are very toxic, frogs less so.

It doesn't have any effect on some dogs other than to taste nasty but some dogs can have a severe reaction to it.

Best practice is to wipe your dogs mouth out with a wet washer (including gums, tongue and teeth) thoroughly to remove any frog/toad juices.

Very best practice is to prevent the dog from getting the frog/toad in the first place!


#6 User is offline   oakway 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:06 AM

As far as I am aware the green frogs are harmless.
My dogs carry them around in their mouths and annoy the hell out of the frogs till I
step in and remove them, poor green frogs must get sick of being carried around.
Never heard of them causing this reaction before.

#7 User is offline   Jed 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:24 AM

Didn't know that - thanks. Glad your dog is ok, Stitch. Some emergency clinics are good, some wont tell you anything.

The other thing to be aware of is that frogs carry a worm which can be be transmitted to dogs. In the early stages, there aren't too many symptoms, but if the infestation is heavy enough, the dogs lose weight, and generally are off colour.

Treatment is via a worm tablet - not your usual one, a hideously expensive one!! About $20 for 10 kg, I think. Worms are detected by faecal examination.

#8 User is offline   gsdog2 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 11:53 AM

View PostSTITCH, on 11th Oct 2009 - 08:48 AM, said:

So bad in fact that I called the local emergency vet for some advice - which I found out they don't give so I won't do that again. They were distinctly unhelpful which I was disappointed in - I know they are operating a business but I thought they might be a bit more helpful.


:) And their priority should be the health and well-being of your dog. I have rung my local vet on occasion and they've given me advice over the phone (GSD ate part of a dead toad ). I can understand your vet may have wanted you to bring your dog in, but they could have at least advised you to wipe your dog's mouth out with a damp cloth IMMEDIATELY.

#9 User is offline   Stitch 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 04:34 PM

Yes I thought the vet could have been a little bit more helpful than that but luckily it all turned out OK.

As I said previously, the best way to avoid it happening is to avoid the frog and the dog coming together but this girl of mine is very, very frog/toad aware and I doubt that the experience she had has made any difference to her bad attitude.

No brain, no pain I am afraid!!!

Surprisingly enough the frog walked away, puffed up and outraged, but still alive - I like green froggies and don't like to see anything happen to them!

#10 User is offline   oakway 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 06:03 PM

View PostJed, on 11th Oct 2009 - 11:24 AM, said:

Didn't know that - thanks. Glad your dog is ok, Stitch. Some emergency clinics are good, some wont tell you anything.

The other thing to be aware of is that frogs carry a worm which can be be transmitted to dogs. In the early stages, there aren't too many symptoms, but if the infestation is heavy enough, the dogs lose weight, and generally are off colour.

Treatment is via a worm tablet - not your usual one, a hideously expensive one!! About $20 for 10 kg, I think. Worms are detected by faecal examination.



Hi Jed,
Do you mean zipper tape worm.
That can be caught from frogs and usually it's usually frogs that have a swampy back ground.
I am not sure if it could be caught from Green Tree Frogs. Maybe someone on the list might know.
I suspected zipper tape worm once in a new arrival and was advised by the vet four times the normal dose of
Drontal/Droncit forgotten which one now.

Cheers.

#11 User is offline   gsdog2 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 07:06 PM

View PostSTITCH, on 11th Oct 2009 - 04:34 PM, said:

As I said previously, the best way to avoid it happening is to avoid the frog and the dog coming together but this girl of mine is very, very frog/toad aware and I doubt that the experience she had has made any difference to her bad attitude.

No brain, no pain I am afraid!!!


Mine's the same - I used to bring her in at 6.00pm (when the dreaded frogs/toads came out to play ). I was hoping she would grow out of this fettish over winter but I found her on the "hunt" the other day so we're back to the old routine again :laugh:

#12 User is offline   Dog_Horse_Girl 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:04 PM

I can't believe the timeliness of this thread.

I'll try to be as brief as possible:

This morning, I let the dogs out as per usual to go to the toilet. No worries, me thinks. They do their business then want to come in because it's breakfast time. Molly goes to the toilet and I put her back inside. Ruby takes a bit longer, is having a "poo walk" as she often does, but is also fine. Lilly (greyhound with a very high prey drive) is standing in the far corner of the garden, transfixed by something in one of the palms. Usually it's a lizard but not this morning. I wasn't to know what would happen a few minutes later. I called Lilly but she ignored me (nothing unusual there). So I returned my attention to Ruby, which by this time she'd finished her thing and so I put her back inside.

I then approach the corner where Lilly stands, and as I get within a few feet, she lunges into the centre of the palm, backs out with something in her mouth, shakes it vigorously a number of times...then I YELL like crazy. She looks, drops the object, and then continues shaking her head. I run over, grab her collar, see a very large green frog (minus one back leg) on the ground, the frog is almost dead but not quite...then I notice there is "stuff" all over Lilly's front half so I march her over to the garden hose. I wash her off, and just when I think everything's okay, I notice the thick ropes of drool escaping her mouth. So I go into toad-mode and begin hosing her mouth out. She bites me a number of times because she *hates* getting her mouth hosed out.

After about five minutes I think it's safe enough to allow her to move away from the hose. She poos, a loose one and very smelly. The drool is still coming so I go back to hosing her mouth out again. Another five minutes go by, and when I stop the second time, she's still drooling. I had NO idea frogs could be toxic but it looks so much like a toad poisoning I know there can't be another explanation.

Just to be sure, I pu her inside and go back to the corner to check on the "victim" and it's definitely a green frog. NOT a toad. I go inside, Lilly's still drooling and looking really sick, so I start calling the after hours number - phone is out of range. It's 45 mins to opening time at the clinic, so I keep ringing, keep observing Lilly, and try really hard not to panic. I do the usual checks, gums are still pink (good), breathing is very fast and shallow (not good), drool still being formed in copious amounts, no tremors, no loss of consciousness...

I can't get through to the after hours number, so I think I'll just have to shower (I'd just gotten out of bed!) and get her to the clinic. But before I can, she vomits, three times. I clean it up, still observing her and she's still drooling. She's really flat...and looks really miserable. I have a really quick shower, then by the time I get out the clinic should be open, so I call the number. I eventually speak to a vet nurse I know well and she knows Lilly... she tells me she doesn't think frogs are toxic and asks me more than once if I'm sure it wasn't a toad. I reply it was a green frog, without a doubt as I checked it more than once. She tells me to keep an eye on Lilly and if she deteriorates, to get her in pronto, otherwise she's probably going to be fine.

Lilly spent the entire morning on her bed, the drooling stopped not long after I made the call. Of course she slept most of the morning, didn't she? She only got yoghurt for dinner tonight and no breakfast, so she'll be hungry in the morning.

Yes, green frogs can be as toxic as cane toads. I've learnt that today and will be letting my vet know what happened. :thumbsup:

Sorry this is so long, but the details are very important. If your dog grabs a frog, please take it as seriously as a cane toad incident.

#13 User is offline   gsdog2 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:26 PM

View Postlillysmum, on 11th Oct 2009 - 10:04 PM, said:

Yes, green frogs can be as toxic as cane toads. I've learnt that today and will be letting my vet know what happened. :rofl:

Sorry this is so long, but the details are very important. If your dog grabs a frog, please take it as seriously as a cane toad incident.


Thanks for sharing lillysmum - glad Lilly's ok now. Makes me very nervous as we have a large number of green frogs around our place (they leave a horrible "gunk" :thumbsup: on our windows which is apparently toxic).

This post has been edited by gsdog2: 11 October 2009 - 10:27 PM


#14 User is offline   cannibalgoldfish 

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 10:33 PM

Some species of Green tree frogs have large glands behind their head, and yep, venomous when eaten or mouthed.
I miss tree frogs :thumbsup:

#15 User is offline   Dog_Horse_Girl 

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:30 PM

I think vet nurses should be educated on this as mine had no idea. Happy to report Lilly is recovered today. She had a proper dinner tonight so is much happier. :mad

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