Agility Training Talk Thread

[Tiggy]

That's what I love about Staffies, after some work they just want to curl up on the couch with you for the rest of the evening.

Banjo will spend all day on the couch if you let him but when it's walk or training time he's up running and doing the SBT scream

[GoldenGirl85]

When did you guys know that you were ready to enter your first competition?

[Tiggy]

I've been teaching Banjo to release from his start line stay on a verbal 'break' being conscious not to move until I release him - I was wondering what everyone else is doing verbal or signal or both .

[pie]

amypie - hand feeding meals as training was incredibly effective for us. Making focus work really fun and rewarding also helped.....steady feet game (in a sit) with added eye contact has given Zig a solid, focussed start line stay that sets us up for success on the course. He eyeballs me, coiled like a spring until I move my arm out and point to the first obstacle. I also try to break down and test and reinforce every part of the exercise. At training, doing very short sequences and rewarding tight turns or fast lines or obstacle discrimination. Also have a look at what your body language is telling your dog in a trial....shoulders, eye contact etc. I notice some people give up on their dog psychologically and it is really reflected in their own body language. Then the dog picks up on this, blows off the handler and does its own thing. I hope that helps.

Thanks TSD, lots to think about there, yes my handling does need a lot of work too and I'm a reserved person which probably doesn't help things!

He is interested on the start line stay, coiled up, ready to spring, leaps off the start, then once he has done about two jumps he is over it!

I've been teaching Banjo to release from his start line stay on a verbal 'break' being conscious not to move until I release him - I was wondering what everyone else is doing verbal or signal or both .

I use just a verbal but sometimes he doesn't hear me if it's windy or noisy so I should really start using a signal as well I think.

[skip]

I use a word "break" as well. What you are doing with your body or signalling is too hard to think about specially when competing. Really must make sure it is just a word and not a body move that cues a release, I think. Cluey dogs will notice you relax or drop shoulders or breathe out before releasing.

I try to make it the word "break' is the only thing mine need to move. At a training camp one instructor even had me setting the dog up and then giving it other words like "chair", "fence" etc. And you were suposed to say it as excitedly as you would their release word.

More useful perhaps - CleanRun mag had exercises recently to proof the stay/release. Involved setting your dog and then tried a few exercises to ensure dog knows what stay/release means.

You could reward the dog in position and repeat exercise OR release the dog and reward. Mix it up randomly with no pattern for rewarding.

I think the exercises were like

Running past your dog.

Running to your dog, stopping and then bolting off again.

Running past your dog and doing a front cross and them release. (hard for dog to resisit shoulders turning)

Running past dog and doing a blind cross.

Running into your dogs path and across

Running past your dog and moving laterally away

I found this good and also did the same exercises from the contact positions as this was what I wanted to work on. I was surprised at my dogs results as sometimes you forget to train things your dogs are better at.

I will admit I get it easier as one of mine will stay for a lead out of half dozen fences. But that is because his drive is not as high as some other dogs. Must be so hard to maintain stays with really keen dogs.

Great idea doing agility thread (as I got sick of going to the end of the other one. Sorry.)

Thou if somebody had a real training query why couldn't it go to Dog Sports? Or don"t many go there?

Anyway, hope to learn more from experienced trainers here.

Edited July 13, 2010 by skip

[The Spotted Devil]

I've been teaching Banjo to release from his start line stay on a verbal 'break' being conscious not to move until I release him - I was wondering what everyone else is doing verbal or signal or both .

I train a verbal release only - however I actually proof it by consciously moving and even using a 'ready!' command. Otherwise I think you can inadvertently back chain the release.

[GoldenGirl85]

Thou if somebody had a real training query why couldn't it go to Dog Sports? Or don"t many go there?

I dont go in there

[The Spotted Devil]

Some input please from agility people!

At training on Monday night we did a 'round robin' of different sequences. Mostly I understood why they worked, thought about what I was doing and Zig did them all really well. One of them, however, I did as I was instructed, Ziggy responded really well for a green dog but I don't understand why it worked!

The set up was as follows: 4 jumps in a straight line....and the instruction was to run hard with your dog - jump 1, jump 2, jump 3 - then decell as dog takes jump 4, front cross or rear cross (we did both at different times), pick up dog and run hard back over jump 3, jump 2, jump 1. Now, what I'm wondering is why didn't Zig try to take jump 4 on the way back? I'm trying to work out if we just fluked it (unlikely as we ran it 4 times - front and rear cross on left and right) or I just moved my shoulders the right way by instinct. And if I DID want him to take jump 4 on the way home, I wonder what I would have done differently? I just feel the need to break this down even though we got it right

Thanks!

[Tassie]

Not quite sure if I've read the picture correctly - but the decel cue in Derrett handling means to the dog, dig in and turn tightly round the jump and come back to me - they would only back jump if you had gone too far up and were in the way of their path around the upright (and that can happen in a trial ). Usually the dog will have been trained to make the tight wrap before you put it in a sequence - like the one jump stuff that SG does.

[The Spotted Devil]

Not quite sure if I've read the picture correctly - but the decel cue in Derrett handling means to the dog, dig in and turn tightly round the jump and come back to me - they would only back jump if you had gone too far up and were in the way of their path around the upright (and that can happen in a trial ). Usually the dog will have been trained to make the tight wrap before you put it in a sequence - like the one jump stuff that SG does.

Yes! That's exactly it, Tassie, as the club base training on the GD system. But why does it work I guess is what I'm asking? That's the first time we've done anything like that and he absolutely nailed it. Ah - I've just had a revelation!!!! We did a decel in the next sequence and a front cross which was similar in theory but I only just put the two together :D He doesn't yet wrap really tightly but that's something I will practice now that I understand it. The instructor said I should have been very happy with the neatness of his turn for a dog that hadn't had much experience with the exercise....or the rear cross for that matter!!!

ETA: We haven't done the foundation classes so that's why I'm missing a bit of theory. I had a couple of private lessons with a great instructor who is very good at explaining the GD system but we couldn't cover everything as we had to hurry along Zig's contacts for the Dalmatian Nationals earlier in the year.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Tassie]

I was lucky enough to go to the Greg and Laura Derrett seminar in Melbourne last year (in the 45 degree heat ). It was great.

One of Greg's simple rules that the dog learns in foundation work is "I run, you run. I stop, you dig in and turn to me." Of course, it's not quite that simple, as the timing of the 'dig in' message is critical - to be really tight, the dog needs the information at commitment point to the jump - too early, they'll turn inside the jump (Good dog!), too late, the turn will be wide.

You can practise this in flat work too. Running with the dog, and throwing the tuggy ahead as the dog blast past you - for the accel bit - also good as part of rear cross training; and running with the dog, dog ahead, and then stopping - as the dog turns back to you, the game of tuggy happens with you.

Sounds like Zig is doing great. And it's never too late to plug foundation holes - foundation work is something we all really need to maintain (note to self ... :D )

[The Spotted Devil]

Oooh, you lucky thing! Must have been a great seminar

Thanks for the explanation and ideas for training - I don't have jumps yet and not a lot of flat ground to work on so the idea of doing flat work at the park is very appealing.

Ziggy astonishes me - he is so quick to catch on to everything. I'm learning that he is very sensitive to my cues as if I stuff up he goes off course OR if I correct myself at the very last second he can generally gather himself and make me look good :D

[Tassie]

Very sensitive to cues can be really good - but when you're a klutz like me, can also be a nightmare :D .

Seriously, though, it's great - and it does put the onus on the handler to always try to be timely and clear. Yep - lots of flat work in the park is good. I'm like you - very little flat ground at home - can just about get 12 weavers in with a little bit of space at either end and at the side.

I made some stick in the ground jumps from ness's instructions - pieces of dowel with long nails in the end, and jump cups from Clean Run, and bars only 1 m long. So easy to transport to parks and so on. You can do a lot of work with one or two jumps - dvds by Susan Garrett (One Jump) and Sandy Rogers (One and two jumps) have got lots of exercises.

Now please can someone find me some time ...!!! I have to drive 100 minutes (140 km) and back to a meeting tonight after work .

[RubyStar]

After five minutes of flatwork training today I've come to the conclusion that Banjo and I need to get fitter . We were both puffing but at least he got to go in the river afterwards . Training was good though, he still has a tendency to pop behind me when he's on my right(evil obedience is to blame ) but other than that he's coming along really well.

So you're back into agility again?

[RubyStar]

Usually the dog will have been trained to make the tight wrap before you put it in a sequence - like the one jump stuff that SG does.

I'm going to have to watch this DVD I need more theory behind me and practice more flatwork.

[Mas1981]

We starting teaching weave poles last night, we throw food through and he dog goes to get it etc, but now my dog goes to get the food and comes out the way he went in, is this ok to start with?? We only used 2 poles so maybe he wont do this when there are more up....

[Tiggy]

After five minutes of flatwork training today I've come to the conclusion that Banjo and I need to get fitter . We were both puffing but at least he got to go in the river afterwards :D . Training was good though, he still has a tendency to pop behind me when he's on my right(evil obedience is to blame ) but other than that he's coming along really well.

So you're back into agility again?

yes

[RubyStar]

We starting teaching weave poles last night, we throw food through and he dog goes to get it etc, but now my dog goes to get the food and comes out the way he went in, is this ok to start with?? We only used 2 poles so maybe he wont do this when there are more up....

Sounds like you guys might be teaching it with the 2x2 method - in this case, definitely avoid him coming back the way he went. You need a reward line - this is the direction he heads through the poles and the direction the reward is thrown. Helps to teach entries from all angles.

Edit: you should also be shaping him to go through the poles on his own, and then throw the reward once he's heading through. Do not throw the food to lure him through. It's a frustrating process at first if your dog isn't good with shaping (Ruby is, Millie isn't so I am going to have trouble with her!) but once they "get it", you'll progress in no time.

Edited July 15, 2010 by RubyStar

[RubyStar]

After five minutes of flatwork training today I've come to the conclusion that Banjo and I need to get fitter . We were both puffing but at least he got to go in the river afterwards . Training was good though, he still has a tendency to pop behind me when he's on my right(evil obedience is to blame ) but other than that he's coming along really well.

So you're back into agility again?

yes

:D

[Mas1981]

We starting teaching weave poles last night, we throw food through and he dog goes to get it etc, but now my dog goes to get the food and comes out the way he went in, is this ok to start with?? We only used 2 poles so maybe he wont do this when there are more up....

Sounds like you guys might be teaching it with the 2x2 method - in this case, definitely avoid him coming back the way he went. You need a reward line - this is the direction he heads through the poles and the direction the reward is thrown. Helps to teach entries from all angles.

Edit: you should also be shaping him to go through the poles on his own, and then throw the reward once he's heading through. Do not throw the food to lure him through. It's a frustrating process at first if your dog isn't good with shaping (Ruby is, Millie isn't so I am going to have trouble with her!) but once they "get it", you'll progress in no time.

Yes the lady mentioned last night to try and get them to think for themselves and let them work it out and then throw the food, my mistake was letting him walk through and then clicking, he then came me for the reward, I must throw the food for him and not expect him to come and get it from me!!