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Anatolian Shepherd Dog

#1 User is offline   Troy 

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

The Anatolian Shepherd Dog

Quote

ANKC Standard

(from http://www.ankc.org....ls.aspx?bid=158 )


Group: Group 6 (Utility)

General Appearance: Large, upstanding, tall, powerfully built, livestock guarding dog with broad strong head and dense double coat. Must have size and stamina. Capable of great speed.
Important Proportions: Foreface slightly shorter than skull.

Characteristics: An active breed originally used as a guard dog for sheep; hard working; capable of enduring extremes of heat and cold.

Temperament: Steady and bold without aggression, naturally independent, very intelligent and tractable. Proud and confident. Loyal and affectionate to owners, but wary of strangers when mature.

Head And Skull:
Skull: Large, but in proportion to body, broad between ears, slightly domed, with slight stop. Mature males have broader head than females.
Foreface: Seen from above almost rectangular. Profile blunt, tapering very slightly to end.
Nose: Black, except in livers, where it is brown.
Lips: Very slightly pendulous, black-edged. Edge of upper lip not lower than the profile of the underjaw. Tight lip-corners.

Eyes: Rather small in proportion to size of skull, set well apart, deep set, showing no haw. Golden to brown in colour according to coat colour. Eye rims black except in livers.

Ears: Medium sized, triangular in shape, rounded at tip, pendant with front edge close to cheek, higher when alert.

Mouth: Teeth strong, with a perfect scissor bite, i.e. the upper teeth closely overlapping the lower teeth and set square to the jaw. Complete dentition.

Neck: Slightly arched, powerful, muscular, moderate in length, rather thick. Slight dewlap.

Forequarters:
Shoulders: Well muscled, oblique.
Forelegs: Set well apart, straight and well boned; of good length.
Elbows: Close to sides, free moving.
Pasterns: Strong, slightly sloping when viewed from side.

Body:
Powerful, well muscled, never fat.
Topline: Rather short in proportion to leg length, horizontal, slightly arched over loins.
Underline: With the belly well tucked up.
Chest: Deep to point of elbow, ribs well sprung, ribcage sufficiently long.

Hindquarters:
Powerful, not overloaded with muscles. Hindlegs vertical when seen from rear.
Thighs: Long.
Stifle: Good turn of stifle.

Feet: Strong, with thick pads and well arched toes. Nails short.

Tail: Long, reaching to hock, set on rather high, when relaxed carried low with slight curl; when alert carried high and curled over back, especially by males.

Gait/Movement: Very noticeable level line of body, head and neck when walking; movement even, supple and long reaching, giving impression of stalking, with great power. Pacing acceptable at slow speed. Mincing or hackney action highly undesirable.

Coat: Hair: Short or mid-length, dense, with thick undercoat. Great variations in length according to climate. Longer and thicker at neck, shoulders and thighs. The coat tends to be longer in winter.

Colour: All colours acceptable.

Sizes:

Height:
Dogs 74-81 cm (29-32 ins) at the shoulders
Bitches 71-79 cm (28-31 ins) at the shoulders

Weight:
Mature dogs 50-65 kg (110-145 lbs)
Mature bitches 40-55 kg (85-120 lbs)


Faults:
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

Notes: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum


See Photos of the Anatolian Shepherd Dog

Quote

QUESTIONS

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc)

2. Where and why was the breed first developed?

3. How common is it in Australia?

4. What is the average lifespan?

5. What is the general temperament/personality?

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?

8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

9. How much grooming is required?

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)


If you wish to contribute to the knowledge about this breed, please answer the above questions. (Copy and paste them into a new post).

  • Please only answer if you breed or own a pedigree example of this breed.
  • You do not have to answer all questions
  • Please keep posts limited to answering questions or for asking further questions if you require more (or expanded) information.


See Photos of the Anatolian Shepherd Dog

Anatolian Shepherd Dog Breeders

Anatolian Shepherd Dog Puppies For Sale

#2 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 10:45 PM

1. What is my relationship with the breed?
long time breed obsessive :laugh:
(or rather regional variants obsessive)
and I'm fascinated by primitive guardian breeds and their traditional environments.


2. Where and why was the breed first developed?
contentious question.
Fact #1
In Turkey there is no breed called Anatolian.
The ANKC / FCI breed name refers to the geographical region (Anatolia) where the dogs are from.

Fact # 2
There is no Kangal breeder or knowledgeable person on Kangal in Turkiye who would call Australian registered Kangals as Kangal.
In Turkey, all Kangals in Australia are regarded as Anatolians (ie mixes of Aksaray, Tuzkoy, Kangal etc)
Because quite simply, according to Turkish definition of what is Kangal, Australian Kangals are not Turkish Kangal because of (most importantly) physical type and lineage.
Black mask has nothing to do with pure Kangal heritage.

Fact # 3
In Australia, Kangals and Anatolian look the same, act the same and cannot be differentiated based on their physical appearance.
So for all intents and purposes Kangal = Anatolian in Australia.
If there is a Kangal breeder in Australia (or owner) or I guess enthusiast
who believes otherwise.
They are welcome to make comment and explain why they believe is not the case.


Kangal is a regional breed or variant - depending on your definition of the term 'breed'.
In Turkiye, you will also find: Tuzkoy, Aksaray, Yoruk, Akbas, Haymana and others variants (depending on the knowledge abse you speak to)
(Kangal x Aksaray would be termed Turkish Coban Kopegi which is equivalent to Anatolian Shepherd0)
That said, if a Tuzkoy is crossed with a Kangal and then that offspring crossed with a Kangal, for the most part, it is regarded as a Kangal.
In reality the lines between the dogs of turkey are fluid and are not the definite lines most Australians understadn by the term breed.
Lineage is relative.



From here on in, all information is related to Australia, and the Australian context.
For reasons of simplicity, pedigree accuracy and actuality: Anatolian = Kangal.



5. What is the general temperament/personality?

6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult?

7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with?
Not really.


8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods?

9. How much grooming is required?

10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)?

11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of?

12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be)[/quote]


[/quote]

This post has been edited by lilli: 11 August 2011 - 08:03 AM


#3 User is offline   KitKat 

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 11:36 AM

Yay!!!!! I've been waiting for this thread :D :D

#4 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:01 AM

3. How common is it in Australia?
The Anatolian is not common in Australia, although it is generally well known or 'heard of'.
The Anatolian also goes by the name of "Turkish Karabash", "Anatolian Karabash" and "Kangal".

As the Anatolian is primarily a dog suited to open space, most homes are in a farming or rural area.
Anatolians can be found in suburban areas, although this is less common.

4. What is the average lifespan?
The average lifespan is anywhere from 11yo - 17yo.
Much depends on lineage and environmental factors.

This post has been edited by lilli: 11 August 2011 - 08:04 AM


#5 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:23 AM

As of January 1st, 2012

Anatolian Shepherd Dogs
and
Kangal Dogs
will be regarded as ONE breed -
ANATOLIAN SHEPHERD DOGS.


#6 User is offline   Fit for a King 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:46 AM

My understanding lilli that this decision is now under review because of what transpired at the ANKC conference and information now at hand......

As an aside you seem so angry and determined to denegrate anyone who believes they are a separate breed....I really have to wonder why. Unless you are the world authority on the breed and not just a breed enthusiast then let people do what they want to do within the CoE of the ANKC...it really isn't up to you or me to tell them otherwise. There is a separate breed standard which still stands as of this time.

#7 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:37 AM

:sleep:

This post has been edited by lilli: 23 March 2012 - 10:16 PM


#8 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:57 AM

The first Turkish Karabash / Shepherd Dogs were registered under the ANKC in Australia in 1984.


Between 1984 and 1997
,
19 Anatolian Shepherd Dogs
and

3 Kangal Dogs were imported into Australia:


1. Sivas Regals Pasha (semen from USA, imported by HAKIKI)
2. Kangal Aga's Ulu Bey (USA, imported by HAKIKI)
3. Ayla (Germany, imported by HAKIKI)

Except for the recent imports (2008-2011) of Takas Kennel, there have been no other Anatolians or Kangals imported to the ANKC register.


ANKC Kangal = ANKC Anatolian, because:

1. There is no colour or coat difference between ANKC Kangal and ANKC Anatolian
2. There is no distinct pedigree difference between ANKC Kangal and ANKC Anatolian
3. The COI increases when we breed some ANKC Anatolian with ANKC Kangal.
4. There is no set of physical characteristics that differentiates ANKC Kangal from ANKC Anatolian - ANKC Kangal is identical in appearance to ANKC Anatolian.



(1) There is no colour or coat difference between ANKC Kangal and ANKC Anatolian


White ANKC Kangal
HAKIKI LAFEBESI x HAKIKI KASIL
Hakiki Lafebesi is Sivas Regals Pasha x Ayla
Hakiki Kasil is Hakiki Hazine x Ayla
Posted Image


Black and Tan ANKC Kangal

HAKIKI LAFEBESI x HAKIKI KASIL
Posted Image

Long Coat ANKC Kangal
KOCAKOPEK HASAN - litter brother to Australian Champion Kangals,
KOCAKOPEK CALETIA BEY & KOCAKOPEK NISAN.
Posted Image

Pinto ANKC Kangal
KARETAKER AKILLI x HAKIKI KARAMELLA
Posted Image



Liver dilute ANKC Kangal

KARASIVAS x COOETONG AMIR
Posted Image

So we have established, that colour and coat length are not a comparative difference
between ANKC Anatolian ANKC Kangal.
And in fact, the current ANKC Kangal population has more colour variance than the ANKC Anatolian population.



(2) There is no distinct pedigree difference between ANKC Kangal and ANKC Anatolian


Since the Anatolian Shepherd Dog split into the ANKC Anatolian and ANKC Kangal in 1998,
there was only one resulting litter, which produced ANKC Kangals of 100% ANKC Kangal lineage.
This was HAKIKI's: SIVAS REGALS PASHA (semen import USA) x AYLA breeding (Imp Germany).
The two bitches from this litter
HAKIKI LATIF (now deceased, owned by John Tesarik)
and
HAKIKI LAFEBESI (owned by myself)
are the only registered Kangals in Australia whose lineage is 100% from ANKC Kangal imports, and do not share bloodlines with ANKC Anatolians.

Every other ANKC Kangal and ANKC Anatolian in Australia have the same dogs in their lineage from as early as their grandparents:

ie you will find Arkadas Cesur, Cooetong Filo Ayak (Ransu Marchael x Iradene Winsome) as parents or grandparents in pedigrees of ANKC Anatolian and ANKC Kangals alive today.

Moreover:
EVERY ANKC KANGAL and ANKC ANATOLIAN alive today GOES BACK TO THE SAME 8 DOGS**
**The remaining 11 Anatolians from the initial 19 imports, have been lost from the Australian gene pool

Kurtkir Kahhar (Imp UK) dog
Anadol Barcak (Imp UK) dog [Anadol barcak's sire is the brother of Kamish Meram's dam & Seacop Tipi's sire]
Anadol Bachi (Imp UK) bitch [sister to Anadol Bacak]
Truvas Febiha (Imp UK) bitch
Seacop Tipi (Imp UK) bitch [Seacop Tipi's sire is brother of Kamish Meram's dam]
Kamish Mavi (Imp UK) dog [Kamish Mavi's is the half brother to Kamish Meram's dam]
Kamish Meram at Iradene (Imp UK) dog [Kamish Meram's sire is Kenevan Cala's grandsire and Kamish Meram's dam is half sister to Kenevan Cala's sire]
Kenevan Cala (Imp UK) bitch


(3) The COI increases when we breed some ANKC Anatolians with ANKC Kangal.


Apart from Takas' imports: Zwingli Des Poteries (Belgium 2008) and Dogru's Turkish Passport (USA 2010), Bonnie & Bastion (Turkiye 2011) there have been no Anatolian/Kangal imports of new lineage.
The breeding of every other Anatolian and Kangal in Australia,
consists of the same 8 Anatolians dog and 3 Kangals.

This is evidenced by inbreeding coefficients between 10 - 30%:

Recent Kangal litters
Atakanturkay's August 2010 Kangal litter:
Lindisfarne Mazlum x Atakanturkay Kucuk Lilly has COI of 17.1%

Karasivas' July 2010 Kangal litter:
Karasivas Derman x Karasivas Ezo has COI of 26.56%

Recent Anatolian litters
Silverwerro's July 2010 Anatolian litter
Silverwerro Kagan x Silverwerro Muhtesem has COI of 15.64%

Tribocie's June 2010 Anatolian litter:
Comarkaan Duman x Silverwerro Hannah has COI of 17.62%

Furthermore,
If ANKC Anatolian and ANKC Kangal are distinct breeds, then "cross breeding" should result in lower COIs than the contributing dog/bitch.
ie:
Kangal dog Cooetong Kanyak (2.98%)
x
Anatolian bitch Takas Shahrazad (3.65%)
results in KDxASD offspring with COI of 6.92%

Kangal Dog, Aus CH Kocakopek Calatia Bey (9.16%)
x
Anatolian bitch Takas Rage (3.56%)
results in KDxASD offspring with COI of 10.15%.

Anatolian dog Cappadocia Cello (7.98%)
x
Kangal bitch Aus CH Atakanturkay Kucuk Lilly
results in KDxASD offspring with COI of 18.74%.


(4) There is no set of physical characteristics which differentiate ANKC Kangal from ANKC Anatolian - ANKC Kangal is identical in appearance to ANKC Anatolian.

In Australia, the conformational difference in the Anatolian and Kangal breed standards, is that the Anatolian Standard calls for a rectangular muzzle, and the Kangal a square muzzle. But essentially the ANKC has two breed standards describing the same conformed dog.
The Kangal standard does not allow long (rough) coated dogs, but this does not imply that long coat dogs are not found in the Kangal population in Australia - currently there are more long coated 'Kangals' than long coated 'Anatolians'.

The most common misconception, is that the difference between an Anatolian and Kangal is the existence of a black mask - ie a Kangal has a black mask and an Anatolian doesn't. 
Both Kangals and Anatolians can be with or without a black mask. Kangal semen import Sivas Regals Pasha consistently produces Kangal puppies with no mask. The Anatolian CobanKopegi Babayani also produces puppies with no mask.
Black masks are not indicators of an Anatolian Shepherd's or Kangal Dog's registered breed
Another common misconception, is that the Anatolian can be 'any colour', whereas 'pure' Kangal Dogs always breed true (ie dun with black mask). Colour variation exists in Kangals exists just as it does in Anatolians..

This post has been edited by lilli: 22 December 2011 - 12:53 PM


#9 User is offline   Fit for a King 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

Lilli - self confidence is one thing...arrogance has a category all of its own..... and your posts smack of arrogance - of the "I know better than anyone else".... I don't believe anyone has the right to make that claim unless they have been in the breed for 50 years, know every pedigree there is and are known world wide in that capacity....everyone else is and should be, learning as one goes about their respective breeds and listening to opinions........the ANKC saw fit to separate the breeds so who are you to say it shouldn't happen?.......as I said that decision is being reviewed and I hope it is reversed....I can't help but wonder whether the Anatolian people are hell bent on getting their hands on the Kangals to get the bloodlines....mmmmm......

As for the breed differences.....why if they are identical are the breed standards different???

Anatolian - All colours acceptable
Kangal - The head invariably has a black mask. Body colour ranges from dun to steel grey. A white chest blaze may be present. The Kangal Dog is never white or spotted.

Height and weight differences....
Body description different.......

People can make up their own minds......I have no intention of continuing to argue with you....let people make up their own minds....and at the end of the day we are all dictated to by the ANKC anyway.......they get the final say......

#10 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:33 AM

Posted Image

This post has been edited by lilli: 23 March 2012 - 11:00 PM


#11 User is offline   Fit for a King 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:49 AM

That's it I have done the maths - the Kangal people are satisfied to bring in their own semen and new lines and they are NOT the ones pushing to have the breed brought back togther......seems you just proved my point...the Anatolian people want the lines to further their breeding...........

#12 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:05 PM

View PostFit for a King, on 22 December 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

That's it I have done the maths - the Kangal people are satisfied to bring in their own semen and new lines and they are NOT the ones pushing to have the breed brought back togther......seems you just proved my point...the Anatolian people want the lines to further their breeding...........



Fit For A King, unique Kangal bloodlines in Australia do not exist in todays ANKC Kangals.
Your math will improve when you educate yourself on the genetic facts of what you are attempting to sum.

From above:
Apart from Takas' imports: Zwingli Des Poteries (Belgium 2008) and Dogru's Turkish Passport (USA 2010), Bonnie & Bastion (Turkiye 2011) there have been no Anatolian/Kangal imports of new lineage.
The breeding of every other Anatolian and Kangal in Australia,
consists of the same 8 Anatolians and 3 Kangals.

This post has been edited by lilli: 22 December 2011 - 12:13 PM


#13 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:29 PM

Posted Image

This post has been edited by lilli: 23 March 2012 - 10:56 PM


#14 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

Posted Image

This post has been edited by lilli: 23 March 2012 - 11:00 PM


#15 User is offline   lilli 

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:47 PM

http://www.cccq.org....ews.aspx?id=364


Anatolian Shepherd Dogs

From 1 January 2012 ANKC Ltd will combine the registrations of Kangal Dogs and Anatolian Shepherd Dogs under Anatolian Shepherd Dogs.

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