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Why You Shouldn't Shave Your Long Coated Dog

#31 User is offline   persephone 

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:11 PM

 LisaCC, on 31 August 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

What about Aussies? Cow dogs in America, I have a close friend from and back living in Arizona. Her family had working Aussies and never shaved them. I've heard they are popular workers in Texas too.


They (if anything like Koolies) don't really have a 'double' coat as I understand it .... we have had very fluffy koolies & border collies here as working dogs ..and they didn't seem to fare much worse than the very short coated ones ...

#32 User is offline   LisaCC 

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:21 PM

Aussies have a double coat, I'm guessing most working ones would be shorter and possibly less thick than the show lines but the photos she showed me were still quite fluffy :) Although I did notice the males ruffs were not quite as full.
My boys breeder did say she sometimes shaved one of her boys belly during summer but never the full coat.

This post has been edited by LisaCC: 31 August 2013 - 09:22 PM


#33 User is offline   persephone 

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:51 PM

OH .. I was thinking double coated dogs were only those waterproofed/'dense' coated types ... oops ...

#34 User is offline   LisaCC 

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:02 PM

Thank ok Posted Image I have to say I've never seen a long coated Koolie before, I know lots of short coats though. Are the long coated Koolies double coated?

#35 User is offline   persephone 

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:28 PM

 LisaCC, on 31 August 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Thank ok Posted Image I have to say I've never seen a long coated Koolie before, I know lots of short coats though. Are the long coated Koolies double coated?


some longer coated ones HERE and one of mine when still young .. He had a very thick coat , and didn't shed heaps in Summer ...HERE


Posted Image

#36 User is offline   LisaCC 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:21 AM

 persephone, on 31 August 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

 LisaCC, on 31 August 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Thank ok Posted Image I have to say I've never seen a long coated Koolie before, I know lots of short coats though. Are the long coated Koolies double coated?


some longer coated ones HERE and one of mine when still young .. He had a very thick coat , and didn't shed heaps in Summer ...HERE


Posted Image


Gorgeous!

#37 User is offline   espinay2 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:45 AM

A good article on hair length and temperature tolerance: http://www.lgd.org/l.../hairlength.htm

I have seen many people shave off a double coated dog as it is easier to look after. Problem is that as the hair grows, it actually becomes more difficult to look after. this is because shaving cuts both the guard hairs and the undercoat to the same length. In a 'normal' double coat the thicker, longer guard hairs keep the undercoat separated. When a coat 'blows', the undercoat is relatively easy to pluck or brush out. When cut the same length, as the coat grows the guard hairs can get woven in with the softer undercoat. It creats a tighter wadded mess that is a lot harder to brush out. So shaved coats can require a LOT more brushing as they grow out to keep them from becoming matted. Don't brush regularly enough, and it becomes a vicious circle of matted coat and shaving.

#38 User is online   mita 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

.... which is why, when I've assessed that a tibbie has good reason to be clipped right back, it's done with consistency. Not with the intention of ever returning the tibbie to totally full coat.
Our excellent groomer pointed out that a clipping right back, on a double-coated dog, is highly likely to change the type of coat radically when it grows back, exactly as you say. A good reason not to undertake full clipping without very sound reasons... & then commitment to keeping it up.
So our Annie gets at least a couple of full clips throughout our long, hot summer. Then it grows to about 1/4 full hot during our relatively mild winter.... Then spring rolls around & the sequence starts again. Definitely not something to be entered into lightly.
And why our other Australian-bred tibbies are not clipped.

This post has been edited by mita: 01 September 2013 - 10:56 AM


#39 User is offline   Dame Aussie 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:56 AM

Yep, Aussies arent mainly from cold climates as far as I know, and they have a double coat.

#40 User is offline   Yonjuro 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:17 PM

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

Attached File  993603_10151598502567819_510150252_n.jpg (90.28K)
Number of downloads: 73

#41 User is offline   Malamum 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:32 PM

 Aussie3, on 31 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Both my two have double coats. Very easy to brush and look after. Their double coat insulates them against cold and hot so I'm not going to mess with nature.


Yep, another one here who is not messing with nature.



 gsdog2, on 31 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

So what double coated, long haired breeds were actually breed for warm to hot climates?
My parents are Dutch and they tell me my grandmother always had Newfies, beautiful dogs with thick coats - for the cold weather. Yes, these breeds have a thick coat to insulate them ........ against the cold.


My dogs were bred for the cold but I do truly believe their coat insulates them against the heat too. The trick is to not let their body temperature raise too much and if they start cool they seem to be able to maintain it just fine. That just means no walks on really hot and humid days and I keep them inside and keep them as calm as possible. As soon as their body temperature raises it takes them forever to bring it back down again.

Indy had a hot spot on his back when he was quite young and the vet shaved a very large area of his coat. It never grew back properly and we kept having reoccurring issues in that same area as he didn't have his coat to protect him. Even today his coat is terrible and it gets really dirty and all sorts of plants and prickles stick to him and I'm forever picking at him to try and get it all out. Kira on the other hand still has a beautiful thick double coat and although she sheds like crazy her coat does it's job and protects her, everything just slides straight off and she always looks clean.

This post has been edited by Malamum: 01 September 2013 - 08:19 PM


#42 User is online   BC Crazy 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:01 PM

I'm another who doesn'let my guys get too hot. I have cool coats for them if air con is unavailable for them. I don't let them suffer weather extremes.

#43 User is offline   ~Anne~ 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:13 PM

The article fails to recognise a lot of things.

It is true that the way a dog reduces body temperature is through panting and through sweat glands on the pads of the feet. However, dogs also have veins that carry blood like a human. If the veins closest to the surface have cool air blowing on them, it helps to cool the blood. Just like a human.

This is why a dog will lay flat on its belly on cold tiles to cool itself. It can't get the same effect through fur. Most dogs have very little fur on their bellies.

If the fur is removed, the dog does have more opportunity to cool itself simply through the blood it carries through it's veins.

For the cold climate and artic breeds the coat insulates them and stops the cold air getting to the skin where the veins are.

I can understand the logic in espinay's post above and I do not think that all dogs benefit necessarily from being shaved. I also agree that if you shave a dog because you're sick of the hair then you are doing it for nothing. The dog will still shed. It will just be short and spiked hair which is harder to remove from material if you ask me!

My mother in law's BC was shaved every year. I never saw a problem with it. Tasha looked like a puppy each time. She was friskier and cooler. Her coat always grew back beautifully.

This post has been edited by ~Anne~: 01 September 2013 - 07:25 PM


#44 User is offline   sandgrubber 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

 Yonjuro, on 01 September 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

993603_10151598502567819_510150252_n.jpg

The diagram looks pretty much like the diagrams we draw regarding thermal insulation for a house, EXCEPT they failed to show that the heat escapes more easily when the insulation is removed (ie, shaved dog). They show only the incoming energy from solar radiation. If a dog is too hot it will get out of the sun, so unless you're exceptionally cruel and give your dog no access to shade, that one is only semi relevant, and the yellow sun rays can be taken out of the diagram.

Bottom line, heat flows from warmer regions to cooler regions. If the air temperature is below 38 to 39 C, the insulation of coat serves to retain heat for your dog.
Think about your own comfort seeking behavior. A dog's coat behaves like a jumper or coat or blanket. Would you put on a coat to insulate yourself from the heat when it's 35 C?

When air temperature goes over body temperature, we're in trouble, regardless of species. Cooling measures like sweating, panting, seeking cool shade, etc. kick in bigtime.

#45 User is offline   Yonjuro 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:00 PM

I think the purpose of the illustration is to show that the undercoat needs to be thinned and kept in good order and that the guard hairs should remain.

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