ShootMarty Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Pretty new to this stuff, and I'd appreciate all the help I can get... The last thing I want to do experiment on the little dude! After checking local stores, and there treatments for dogs, up to $110.00 per 6 Months... I thought I'd ask for you help in choosing/approving the preventative medical routine.... Intestinal Worms 10 Kg Canine Allwormer 20 x 10Kg (20 x 22lbs) tablets ( These will be halved til the dog reaches half of the prescribed weight ) plus the doses at 8, 10 and 12 ( has about 36 months of treatments ) Heart worm Value Heart Small Dog 6 Pack ( These will be halved til the dog reaches half of the prescribed weight ) Should last a Year... Fleas Comfortis 6 Pack ( to 9kg ) ( These will be halved til the dog reaches half of the prescribed weight )Should last a Year/More ( Seasonal...) Would this combo suffice.. Any problems ( I am aware about comfortis and large doses of ivermectin for mange, possibly unhealthy/worse) For those bean counters that was about $125.00, And I have found a very ( extremely Frugal ) Enzyme Odor and Stain remove that I will trying out, seems OK so far with other household odors.. I've given a few litres away for friends to try and I'll get back to that one.. ( If you are in Brisbane Southside (2 years plus on the forums only) and want to try a Litre ) PM me... You'll need a pump sprayer.... ( the reason for this... I havent used one before, and I'd like the opinion of an experienced owner.. ) Thanks If a thread exists that is very similar, I'm sorry, I did search a fair bit.... Edited June 28, 2014 by ShootMarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I don't understand ( These will be halved til the dog reaches half of the prescribed weight ) What size dog do you have? I wouldn't buy any flea stuff until you need it. I wouldn't start heartworm treatment until at least 4 months old. I'd buy worm tablets as needed and at the correct weight for the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 You might want to look at Sentinel Spectrum. It does all intestinal worms including tape worm. Heartworm prevention and is a flea contraceptive. My 10yo and 9yo dogs have been on this product all their lives and have never had fleas or worms. It is a once a month flavour chew. This product it not suitable to chop in halves. You buy the correct dose for the weight of your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 My two have only had fleas twice in the four years I've had them and were treated with a Comfortis tablet each at the time. They are wormed a couple of times a year and are on Value Heart for heartworm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootMarty Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Sorry I should be clear and state the Breed... Aus Silky.... I will use a half of 10 Kg tablet until the dog reaches More than 5 Kg, then re-assess... This really confuses the hell out of me... I was of the train of thought that it was heart worm monthly ( No problems here ) Intestinal worm Quarterly - Flea protection, in the flea seasons and as required... Are all the people in the retail stores in Kahootz with the Manufacturers to Milk us dry and poison our dogs... Does it stretch as far as Vets too..?? If it does do I need to chose a vet not associated with a retail outlet just to get the honest truth... And to the people in the stores. I want a naturally healthy dog as much as possible... Of the 6 local stores I've been to, only one has been kind enough to lay out a plan for me, but at 150.00 plus for a dog who should remain under 5 Kg for the whole of its adulthood... And not being able to say a standard tablet might not contain equal amounts if halved, but I can assure you that each packet, inner, outer, and batch would be identical...<5% variation... And Ah!!! It finally sunk in that ( people already helping please dont take this the wrong way ) it must be hard, or one may show a reluctance to answer, in the ( heaven forbid ) instance that something untoward may happen.. Now knowing this, and accepting all responsibility for my decision, I would just be happy to know what you did in the same situation..... I would really appreciate some more input, I find this a very grey area of pet care... And to the those that have already kindly shared their thoughts with me, I thank you, as it gives me insight as to how it is with some real dog owners, that offer information without a budget to meet... While I understand that one in a paid profession should err on the side of caution.. Its really OK to share information about what people really do, no wonder pet supermarkets are taking off.... And as for the enzyme cleaner, I have given some to friend who's house reeks of cat, I'm checking back in with them in a week... I've searched the brand here, but it does not show up at all... Any way, thanks guys... I feel like I'm back at school and I'm about to get into some heavy petting.. lol Edited June 28, 2014 by ShootMarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 As CavNrott said - Sentinal - purchase monthly, in the correct size for the dog. Try the net, budget pet products; oveds - google them, and price check. Cheaper than shops. Easier for you to use one thing does all than to be mucking around with all kinds of stuff. If you don't want to do that, go Drontal 5kg now, and go for dimmitrol for heartworms - daily - supermarket, pet shop or the net. Leave fleas until you find some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootMarty Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the information, the join dates and post counts are duly noted as well... Can I ask what is the reason or source of thge information that makes these chews to be taken as whole... Blame it on being inquisitive, I like to know how things work, otherwise, it seems highly likely that an extruded chew, would be batch made, then extruded.. Quality control and conformity would almost demand it be made this way, batch control would then apply to say, 100 Kg to 500 Kg batch, if they were made any other way they would almost certainly have check QC every 50 - 500 tablets, I have been looking for a picture of one to ascertain its manufacture process... We don't mind separate medications and manage such, but 20-30 dollars annually is neither here nor there with pets and the association ( which we haven't started yet). Though it is great to see the larger (huge) American supermarket chains are quickly moving to Generic treatments as well.. In addition - I found a pic, it's on the packet. This thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/228694-sentinel-spectrum-dosage/ Suggests the manuf cant guarantee the mix is equal if the tablet is cut in half.. However, I bet they guarantee the tablets are the same one chew to the next, and I wouldn't be surprised if the company made the larger mixes, and just the extrusion dye ( think chew width pattern ) and length to manufacture the various weight chews, one size after the other. The other is off label use, which wont be supported by the manufacturer either, but one have to keeps receipts to claim, and prove they were dosed, and ingested, should you have the money to take them on , even if you were right and adhered to label use... And yes the manuf wont garantee the weight/dose will be correct if they are divided... Yes, surely its up to the owner to work this out knowing the dosage/weight ratio prescribed by the company... Interesting - the ingredients increase strictly with the weight scale except for the lightest weight, where a minimum amount of Milbemycin look to be required for effectiveness. http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=5b53a174-0a1e-4d23-bb33-adbd39e82606 While I respect your opinion, and acknowledge your experience and wisdom, your posts and replies would carry more weight with explanation and substance. And, it appears that some do and dont halve there treatments, Sentinal in this case, those that have chosen to, I can see why they have, as long as they cover the minimum dose in a lighter dog, and meet the weight scale for the heavier dogs. But all said and done, its a gamble that the owner takes, but if their calculations are correct, their logic appears sound.. Edited June 28, 2014 by ShootMarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 There's no need to worm a dog every 3 months, in my opinion it's over kill, you could if you want to or just have a faecal test done. Fleas, I wouldn't worry about unless you see physical sings of flea, scratchy dogs, flea dirt or fleas and then you should treat the environment as well. Heart worm, unless you are in a heart worm area, with temperatures that allow the life cycle to flourish and have the mosquito's that carry it, is also a waste of time and money. Why put any chemicals on or in your dog that it doesn't need. Keep it simple and treat what you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I really don't understand your posting style or what you are actually asking. I have 30 kilo plus dogs, do as little chemically to them as possible. With such a small dog as yours I would be buying the correct size by weight of anything I needed. No way I would be trying to save a few dollars by buying larger tablets then halving them. Best you ask your breeder what they use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) worm a few times a year ... as said - treat fleas if they are there ..and heartworm with whatever is suitable for the dog's weight ( need not start until 4-6 mths) Such a tiny morsel of dog will not cost much per year ... and I suggest you contact companies/manufacturers about their drugs and how they ascertain dosages etc. My brain hurts with the way all this is posted ... I appreciate you are researching to the Nth degree ;) ... Hope you find a pet Insurance scheme which fits ... and also a vaccination schedule which fits in with your scheme ... there are as many different ideas as there are owners, pretty much :) Edited June 28, 2014 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks for the information, the join dates and post counts are duly noted as well... The join date and number of posts by members on here means nothing. Many newer members with few posts may well have forgotten more than some people will ever learn. Can I ask what is the reason or source of thge information that makes these chews to be taken as whole... Blame it on being inquisitive, I like to know how things work, otherwise, it seems highly likely that an extruded chew, would be batch made, then extruded.. Quality control and conformity would almost demand it be made this way, batch control would then apply to say, 100 Kg to 500 Kg batch, if they were made any other way they would almost certainly have check QC every 50 - 500 tablets, I have been looking for a picture of one to ascertain its manufacture process... We don't mind separate medications and manage such, but 20-30 dollars annually is neither here nor there with pets and the association ( which we haven't started yet). Though it is great to see the larger (huge) American supermarket chains are quickly moving to Generic treatments as well.. In addition - I found a pic, it's on the packet. This thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/228694-sentinel-spectrum-dosage/ Suggests the manuf cant guarantee the mix is equal if the tablet is cut in half.. However, I bet they guarantee the tablets are the same one chew to the next, and I wouldn't be surprised if the company made the larger mixes, and just the extrusion dye ( think chew width pattern ) and length to manufacture the various weight chews, one size after the other. The other is off label use, which wont be supported by the manufacturer either, but one have to keeps receipts to claim, and prove they were dosed, and ingested, should you have the money to take them on , even if you were right and adhered to label use... And yes the manuf wont garantee the weight/dose will be correct if they are divided... Yes, surely its up to the owner to work this out knowing the dosage/weight ratio prescribed by the company... Interesting - the ingredients increase strictly with the weight scale except for the lightest weight, where a minimum amount of Milbemycin look to be required for effectiveness. http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=5b53a174-0a1e-4d23-bb33-adbd39e82606 Just choose the product that best suits your needs from the wide variety available and strictly follow the manufacturers instructions. Your dog is tiny and the annual financial outlay would be negligible. I fail to understand why you want to cut tablets in half. Buy a product that is correct for the weight of your dog, follow the instructions and your dog will be adequately covered. While I respect your opinion, and acknowledge your experience and wisdom, your posts and replies would carry more weight with explanation and substance. With respect, we have no obligation to fulfil your criteria of competency in order to reply to your questions. We are not applying for a paid position in your employ. The forum members here are helpful people who are taking the time to share their experience with you for no other reason than to assist you. If you require 'more weight with explanation and substance' then consult a vet to ask your questions. And, it appears that some do and dont halve there treatments, Sentinal in this case, those that have chosen to, I can see why they have, as long as they cover the minimum dose in a lighter dog, and meet the weight scale for the heavier dogs.But all said and done, its a gamble that the owner takes, but if their calculations are correct, their logic appears sound.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Sorry I should be clear and state the Breed... Aus Silky.... I will use a half of 10 Kg tablet until the dog reaches More than 5 Kg, then re-assess... Why are you reluctant to purchase the correct dose of the product of your choice? To provide cover for this tiny dog by purchasing the correct dose is not an expensive purchase. It will cost peanuts. This really confuses the hell out of me... I was of the train of thought that it was heart worm monthly ( No problems here ) Intestinal worm Quarterly - Flea protection, in the flea seasons and as required.. Are all the people in the retail stores in Kahootz with the Manufacturers to Milk us dry and poison our dogs... Does it stretch as far as Vets too..?? If it does do I need to chose a vet not associated with a retail outlet just to get the honest truth... And to the people in the stores. I want a naturally healthy dog as much as possible... Of the 6 local stores I've been to, only one has been kind enough to lay out a plan for me, but at 150.00 plus for a dog who should remain under 5 Kg for the whole of its adulthood... The very reason retail exists it to sell the manufacturers product. Of course they will promote their products. It's their job to sell them. Again, if you want professional advice, consult a vet to ask your questions. Retail employees are not qualified to provide you with professional advice. And not being able to say a standard tablet might not contain equal amounts if halved, but I can assure you that each packet, inner, outer, and batch would be identical...<5% variation... This may be correct for tablets but not necessarily so for flavoured chews. And Ah!!!It finally sunk in that ( people already helping please dont take this the wrong way ) it must be hard, or one may show a reluctance to answer, in the ( heaven forbid ) instance that something untoward may happen.. Now knowing this, and accepting all responsibility for my decision, I would just be happy to know what you did in the same situation..... I would really appreciate some more input, I find this a very grey area of pet care... And to the those that have already kindly shared their thoughts with me, I thank you, as it gives me insight as to how it is with some real dog owners, that offer information without a budget to meet... While I understand that one in a paid profession should err on the side of caution.. Its really OK to share information about what people really do, no wonder pet supermarkets are taking off.... And as for the enzyme cleaner, I have given some to friend who's house reeks of cat, I'm checking back in with them in a week... I've searched the brand here, but it does not show up at all... Any way, thanks guys... I feel like I'm back at school and I'm about to get into some heavy petting.. lol Edited June 29, 2014 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootMarty Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks for your comments.. Yes, it might be researching over the top, but I dont care much for myth, there is no need for it, especially in this day and age. Perhaps, it may bring a long term benefit, where one could discover that there is more affordable way to manage preventative care, and Hopefully more people would properly, or get more dogs into peoples homes... After just a quick search of a reputable store The cost difference between the 4 and 45 Kg 22% more.. But the ingredients difference 1000 % Speaking of terriers, I smell a rat..... I really don't understand your posting style or what you are actually asking. I have 30 kilo plus dogs, do as little chemically to them as possible. With such a small dog as yours I would be buying the correct size by weight of anything I needed. No way I would be trying to save a few dollars by buying larger tablets then halving them. Best you ask your breeder what they use. This is exactly my point, at adult weight, the dog should weigh a touch under 5 Kg, Perhaps not enough for the 4 Kg, and overdone with the 10 Kg chew.. 1/2 of it however, would be ideal... As for a few dollars, this could save around $1000.00 over the 1 dog's lifetime.. What if got another dog? What about a 6 Kg dog with a 20 Kg Chew... Still, I'm not yet convinced either way. Its still very much a discussion topic at the moment... (Disclaimer) This (halving/saving) might not be everyones cup of tea, or applicable in all circumstances, it may benefit a few, but I must say that no-one should do this unless they fully understand what is a stake, the health/life of your loved dog, so there is no way I recommend this to anyone.. As for using the same stuff over and over again, working out wether is it better to treat with the one chemical, all its life, or vary the care through its life, (allowing for changes of course) but I'll leave that for another year... I've only read one chemical test report on an intestinal wormer, and they werent a long trial period.. ( warning If you really love dogs, dont go looking for them. ) What do they say, for the good of the many.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Overthinking, perhaps? You don't have your pup yet - there may be things you have not entered into your hypotheticals- like intolerance/allergies to chemicals..other illnesses .. many of us have indeed switched parasite control/prevention methods/substances ..and there are continual discussions on D O L about this subject. They may not interest you due to a lack of detailed analyses ;) You have mentioned budgeting - if you feel you can not adequately provide the most suitable ecto/endo parasite control/prevention - then perhaps you should also cost surgeries and health maintenance . perhaps now is not the right time to add a puppy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 There's no need to worm a dog every 3 months, in my opinion it's over kill, you could if you want to or just have a faecal test done. Fleas, I wouldn't worry about unless you see physical sings of flea, scratchy dogs, flea dirt or fleas and then you should treat the environment as well. I always respect your opinion Wreckit but in this case I disagree with waiting for dog/s to become flea infested before treating. I strongly believe prevention is better than cure. Once there is an established flea infestation there will also be tapeworm. It will take quite a sustained effort (and chemicals) to not only rid the dog/s of fleas but to effectively clear the fleas, eggs and immature larvae waiting to hatch in the environment. The dog/s will also need medication to get rid of tapeworm. For tapeworm to be discovered in a fecal test there needs to be a segment present in the feces. Heart worm, unless you are in a heart worm area, with temperatures that allow the life cycle to flourish and have the mosquito's that carry it, is also a waste of time and money.Why put any chemicals on or in your dog that it doesn't need. Keep it simple and treat what you need to. In my area we have mosquitoes and I know of once case of a dog contracting heartworm near this area. I wouldn't take the risk of leaving my dogs unprotected against heartworm in any area where there are any mosquitoes. We can't know if the mosquitoes carry heartworm unless a dog is infested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskered Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Wow, ShootMarty you are really into researching this to the nth degree! Some journals that might be of use to you to develop your understanding of the use and dosage of anti-parasitic drugs in dogs: Veterinary Parasitology International Journal for Parasitology Parasitology International Trends in Parasitology The Veterinary Journal To add an extra dimension to your research, consider if Spirometra is an issue in your area and of course paralysis tick. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Excellent suggestions Whiskered :) As the OP is in Queensland, paralysis ticks are a real problem. She should definitely do a lot of research about the prevention of ticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Oh I forgot ticks ..we are lucky & don't get them - but for a tiny dog they are very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootMarty Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Overthinking, perhaps? [shooty] Perhaps, but with a better understanding of a dogs needs, should make for a happier dog You don't have your pup yet - there may be things you have not entered into your hypotheticals- like intolerance/allergies to chemicals..other illnesses .. [shooty] No not much thought has been give to that, thanks.. Hopefully, by choosing a robust breed, will help eliminate many concerns you has raised there, General health problems and genetic defects/abnormalities as well temperament and adaptability did come into my dog choice, as well as chosen diet as well.. many of us have indeed switched parasite control/prevention methods/substances ..and there are continual discussions on D O L about this subject. They may not interest you due to a lack of detailed analyses ;) [shooty]Continual problems with available treatments should prove enough information to help ( Statistically speaking ) lol You have mentioned budgeting - if you feel you can not adequately provide the most suitable ecto/endo parasite control/prevention - then perhaps you should also cost surgeries and health maintenance . perhaps now is not the right time to add a puppy ? [shooty]Perhaps, but the other side of the coin, I might have more to choose a better vet, or the better option when push comes shove.. Please don't get me wrong, I dont want compromise the health of Django in any way.. I'm trying to see if I can avoid overdosing the fella by not 4 Kg worth of treatment to a 2 Kg Pup, or 10Kg of treatment to a 5Kg Pup... Oh and P.S. The shoot bit comes from a camera, which I'm really looking to, as well... ---------------------------------------------- And Generally. As for why I look for substance in a reply, this is a forum. By definition ( A public meeting place for open discussion. ) Call it etiquette if you will, but in a real ( like meeting hall, coffee and cake type stuff) forum, one discusses why they have the view they hold. Typically a place to air that that view, if done in a public place, one who comes in a makes a statement without sharing the reason why they hold that view, would just be statement, not a discussion. And while I value their input and membership, and their taking the time to show in interest in the topic, substantiated posts with views and their reasoning is infinitely more valuable. Edited June 29, 2014 by ShootMarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks for your comments. As for a few dollars, this could save around $1000.00 over the 1 dog's lifetime.. What if got another dog? Really if you are worried about saving $100 or less a year then you had better rethink this whole dog owning thing. Are you going to let your dog suffer through an illness or accident while you find the cheapest way to get the attention it will need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now