Dogs, Harnesses , And Hypotheticals

[LisaCC]

I'm just at the stage now where he doesn't consistently pull, but still easily gets distracted. He'll walk nicely (although clingy) to my side if he knows I've got a treat for him (he's extremely food driven, lol), but gotta start somewhere I guess. A lot better than he was anyway. Hopefully though he's actually getting the idea and won't start up again on a harness.

Just be consistent in your loose leash training when you get the harness

[VizslaMomma]

Actually a custom made leash by a local man It's lovely, soft and sturdy! Only just got it. Skyline Belts

What lovely model!!!! Just checked the site out.

And am enabled.

[LisaCC]

Actually a custom made leash by a local man It's lovely, soft and sturdy! Only just got it. Skyline Belts

What lovely model!!!! Just checked the site out.

And am enabled.

Thanks. Be enabled! Nathan will make them exactly the way you want, specific length, handle length, extra D rings, type of clips, silver or brass, I think he can get different coloured leather. This was his first order for a dog leash and it's turned out great! Very affordable too.

He just does local markets so you might be his first shipped order

Edited July 19, 2014 by LisaCC

[VizslaMomma]

Thanks. Be enabled! Nathan will make them exactly the way you want, specific length, handle length, extra D rings, type of clips, silver or brass, I think he can get different coloured leather. This was his first order for a dog leash and it's turned out great! Very affordable too.

He just does local markets so you might be his first shipped order

Shall let you know.

:D

[silentchild]

No, I use this harness for walks where I'm going to do training and don't want people, children and other dogs coming up to him (it has signs saying "in training") as we had a lot of issues before we got this harness.

For example he will wear it out when we go to markets or to get coffee or walking down the main street.

What a good idea!! I have a 'No Dogs' leash for when I don't want my dog to be approached but rarely use it because I worry people might misunderstand and think she is aggressive - 'In training' sounds much less alarming! I may have to consider getting a Julius now even tho I am seriously in love with my Comfortflex.

Similiar to TSD my dog is also often collarless and harness-less especially for training which we spend the bulk of our time but I like to use a harness for casual walks. No problems at all with lead pulling for us - I just prefer never to have any pressure on the neck and throat.

[Things]

Yeah I can't wait to try the IDC harness out. I got it from dogify which seem to have decent prices, and free Aus shipping, though pretty limited in colours. Will work on the velcro patches at a later date :D

[LisaCC]

No, I use this harness for walks where I'm going to do training and don't want people, children and other dogs coming up to him (it has signs saying "in training") as we had a lot of issues before we got this harness.

For example he will wear it out when we go to markets or to get coffee or walking down the main street.

What a good idea!! I have a 'No Dogs' leash for when I don't want my dog to be approached but rarely use it because I worry people might misunderstand and think she is aggressive - 'In training' sounds much less alarming! I may have to consider getting a Julius now even tho I am seriously in love with my Comfortflex.

Similiar to TSD my dog is also often collarless and harness-less especially for training which we spend the bulk of our time but I like to use a harness for casual walks. No problems at all with lead pulling for us - I just prefer never to have any pressure on the neck and throat.

Have both, I do

Things, I got mine from Dogify too, I think it was the only supplier I could find in Australia, they were very quick and helpful.

They didn't have "In Training" Patches though, so I got them from K9 Pro, their patches fit the IDC just fine

Edited July 19, 2014 by LisaCC

[juice]

I have never used one, so want to ask, surely dogs pull with them if used first?

I see lots of people getting hauled around on them, its the powerful part of the dog, less control etc?

I did see a CC at the dogpark last week with a stunning leather one on with a handle on the back, holding 60kgs of dog a handle would help :laugh:

Edited July 20, 2014 by juice

[LisaCC]

I have never used one, so want to ask, surely dogs pull with them if used first?

I see lots of people getting hauled around on them, its the powerful part of the dog, less control etc?

I did see a CC at the dogpark last week with a stunning leather one on with a handle on the back, holding 60kgs of dog a handle would help :laugh:

I think the problem is people buy them thinking the harness itself will help walking. Obviously it's not going to.

I trained my dog to walk nicely on a harness from around 10 weeks old. I would switch between a collar and a harness so he knew to walk nicely on everything.

[Esky the husky]

I use harnesses for pulling activities only.

But I have let Fritz and Esky free play with Fritz wearing his back pack ( which is empty bar the phone which I use to collect speed data, I'm a data junkie! )

I know she won't go for the back pack in play, but I would be very hesitant to leave anything on my dog that could be grabbed in play or fight, especially with strange dogs around

[Jumabaar]

There has been some resent consideration of harnesses that cover the dogs scapular change the mechanics of the way the dog walks/moves. I used to use traditional flyball harnesses but will swap to a Y front which does not sit across the front of the chest. I also wouldn't exercise them with a harness on because I want the minimum amount of restriction to their movement when they are free running.

So far there has not been a published study on it but hopefully there will be one in the future. I figure better to play it safe in the mean time.

[Amax-1]

I have never used one, so want to ask, surely dogs pull with them if used first?

I see lots of people getting hauled around on them, its the powerful part of the dog, less control etc?

I did see a CC at the dogpark last week with a stunning leather one on with a handle on the back, holding 60kgs of dog a handle would help :laugh:

Harnesses are being marketed as anti pulling devices so people who's dogs are pullers on leash buy them in hope to lessen their dog's pulling. There are also a crop of trainers recommending them which I have also noticed more dogs in the community with harnesses pulling their owners around in them. Seems the stronger the dog the more interest in harnesses of late?

There is catch to this also. Some dogs will find a harness restrictive or aversive which can lower the drive to pull by suppressing their enthusiasm and that's a bad thing from a training aspect when a constant restriction/aversive that can't be switched off when the right behaviour is achieved, the dog then becomes equipment wise......haltis/head collars are good for that, dog's perfect with the halti on, take it off and the dog is all over the place again in it's original behaviour. Any aversive used as a training tool must have the capability to switch on and off in accordance with the exhibited behaviour.

I use harnesses for pulling activities only

.

That's their best use so the dog can power into the harness without drive loss from the corrective action of a neck collar.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Amax-1

[westiemum]

I use them as Mac simply can't have anything around his neck ever again after laryngeal tie-back surgery. And I'm now wary of any pulling of any type on the front of the neck damaging delicate laryngeal structures... And it's easier to use harnesses with all three westies...

Edited July 20, 2014 by westiemum

[Aidan3]

I have almost zero problems with dogs pulling into front attaching harnesses. The sure way to get a dog to pull is a short leash and constant tension. Doesn't matter what they're wearing.

I put most reactive dogs in harnesses now so that we can spend more time working on their behaviour around other dogs and less time on teaching them to walk on a loose leash. There are some traditionalists who insist on using a collar but I see no advantage in a collar except to please traditionalists.

Front attaching harnesses are not a "constant aversive", they work on the principle of leverage. It's the same with a correctly conditioned head halter, for that matter. Response prevention isn't punishment or negative reinforcement.

[Aidan3]

I take my 2 dogs to the dog park for a run most days and dogs that are wearing a harness seem to be able to play with no dramas.

I have no doubt they can enjoy themselves - however, if there is a scuffle , I am wondering if other dogs grab onto harnesses ....

My old GSD used to grab collars. I figured it was better than grabbing skin. I suppose the same would be true for a harness, but perhaps less threatening?

[Dame Aussie]

I have almost zero problems with dogs pulling into front attaching harnesses. The sure way to get a dog to pull is a short leash and constant tension. Doesn't matter what they're wearing.

I put most reactive dogs in harnesses now so that we can spend more time working on their behaviour around other dogs and less time on teaching them to walk on a loose leash. There are some traditionalists who insist on using a collar but I see no advantage in a collar except to please traditionalists.

Front attaching harnesses are not a "constant aversive", they work on the principle of leverage. It's the same with a correctly conditioned head halter, for that matter. Response prevention isn't punishment or negative reinforcement.

Great post. We use front attach harnesses and don't have any issues with pulling.

[Simply Grand]

I have almost zero problems with dogs pulling into front attaching harnesses. The sure way to get a dog to pull is a short leash and constant tension. Doesn't matter what they're wearing.

I put most reactive dogs in harnesses now so that we can spend more time working on their behaviour around other dogs and less time on teaching them to walk on a loose leash. There are some traditionalists who insist on using a collar but I see no advantage in a collar except to please traditionalists.

Front attaching harnesses are not a "constant aversive", they work on the principle of leverage. It's the same with a correctly conditioned head halter, for that matter. Response prevention isn't punishment or negative reinforcement.

Great post. We use front attach harnesses and don't have any issues with pulling.

Same. And used head collars plenty too, for exactly the reason Aidan said.

[Dame Aussie]

I find a lot of people seem to assume everyone using a harness is a moron that can't control their dog, there are lots of reasons they can be useful.

[westiemum]

And at the risk of being provocative - why is it some people think that any sort of pulling, gentle or not on a collar from behind on a dog's delicate neck structures and nerves is safe? Seriously, put a collar and lead around your own neck and direct and gently pull from behind - is your larynx (Adam's Apple) at risk??? Thought so. Also is the recurrent laryngeal nerve which is part of the big long vagus cranial nerve which runs down the side of the neck at risk? Probably.

Harnesses which rely on working with and against bigger, stronger muscles are a much better option - I understand that some harnesses might change the way a dog moves - but better that than inadvertently damaging his ability to breathe - tends to have fairly dire effects, as I learned the hard way.

And while the evidence on collars causing damage to delicate neck structures and nerves is unclear and anecdotal only as far as i know, I prefer to be safe and I'll not use one again.

And my guys are really happy in their harnesses anyway.

[Kavik]

I have seen dogs walk strangely in harnesses - crablike walking, they were pulling on the harness and owner was trying to get them to go in another direction. I don't like the way it impeded their movement, or the lack of control you have compared to eg a collar in directing the dog. So I don't use harnesses.