Stressmagnet Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hey. I've got a beautiful 6 month old lab boy. I adopted him at 6 months and it was pretty obvious he'd had little socialisation and training. I've been doing a lot of work with him and he now knows 'sit', 'come', 'stay' and 'shake'. We are working in 'place' (as in 'go to your'). One of the things I've been working on is to sit and wait for his food and to sit before the door opens or crate door opens. He's great at sitting before his meal and waiting for the 'okay'. At the door? Not so much. If he busting for a pee, he sits like lightening, but at any other time - he can stand there for up to 3 minutes before he complies. I don't endlessly repeat the command, and I DO reward with a 'good boy' and an open door. Is he just being stubborn or is there something I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I would think he is just being stubborn & the reward of coming out is not so great. I have a 2 year old poodle like this. He will not sit on command even for food. He looks at me like I have asked him to jump through fire while watching all the girls sit like lightening. Check his bum although I doubt there is a problem there & either persist as you are or maybe offer a treat. Edited October 20, 2014 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 You have an adolescent who is figuring out what he can and can't get away with!! Also you say he knows it, but if you got him at 6 months and he currently is 6 months, chances are he doesn't actually know the behaviours. he might know them in some context but not as a generalised behaviour. Rather than assuming he is being stubborn keep training him. If he isn't doing what you want train him to do what you would like. Most of us assume our dogs "know" things before they actually do, we fade out rewards much too fast. And to be honest, to a lab, hearing good boy probably isn't that rewarding compared to other things that could be used as a reward! I would just take a step back and keep training the behaviours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Oh and I think that dogs generally aren't "naughty", they just don't know what is expected of them and we aren't consistent in our expectations. To me naughty implies they are doing it on purpose. Most dogs I know don't do things to annoy us on purpose they do things because they aren't quite clear on what is really expected and need a bit more help in understanding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 When you want him to sit for his food and at the door try waiting for him to offer the behaviour rather than asking him to sit. I like to put the onus on the dog. Provided they don't need to toilet just walk away from the door OR just wait them out with something to do - I like to check my emails on my phone whilst watching out of the corner of my eye. I do this with pups/youngsters/adults including some who have spent only up to a month with me - 12 months later, I meet the dog and they still remember that behaviour even though they're super excited to see me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 When you want him to sit for his food and at the door try waiting for him to offer the behaviour rather than asking him to sit. I like to put the onus on the dog. Provided they don't need to toilet just walk away from the door OR just wait them out with something to do - I like to check my emails on my phone whilst watching out of the corner of my eye. I do this with pups/youngsters/adults including some who have spent only up to a month with me - 12 months later, I meet the dog and they still remember that behaviour even though they're super excited to see me. Yes....don't tell him to sit. Shape him into sitting on his own. Have you used a clicker with him?? If he were my dog, I would practice this with his crate, with his food bowl & with doors etc. Wait for him to sit at the door, then immediately click & TREAT (he is a Lab) as soon as his bum makes contact with the floor. You may have to break his sit down into small increments, if he is over excited at the door.... clicking & treating as he progresses. With my dogs, they have to wait at the door,(not necessarily sitting) but as soon as their paw or nose moves forward, before I give my release command, I shut the door. Doesn't take them long to work it out :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Brain drain. Re read. Didn't realise that you have only just got him. If he hasn't had any training & you have got him doing all those things already he is not stubborn. Probably hasn't just got full understanding of everything yet. Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Depending on what kind of a door it is (sliding patio doors are more difficult) but if it is a normal door I would be doing as others have suggested. Wait for him to offer a sit, say nothing, be patient, and the second his bottom touches the floor, open the door slightly. Chances are he will immediately go to go out of it so you will have to be quick and close the door. (hence why sliding doors are more difficult). Wait for a sit again and repeat until you can safely open the door wide and have him wait till you release him. I wouldn't do this if he needs the toilet as it could be a long process but he will need to want to go out otherwise he may give up altogether Obviously some dogs learn this quicker than others. my Aussie Shepherd picked it up almost straight away but my poor cuddly 'Oh so cute but not all that bright' Jenna took a lot longer to get it. :) Oh, and most important of all, if you want him to understand the behaviour you (and anyone else in the family) need to be 100% consistent. I would also thoroughly recommend the Crate Games video by Susan Garrett, fantastic for teaching a dog self control. There are some you tube videos around of people teaching the dogs the crate games which you can also watch for free. Good luck with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thank you so much. I guess I am so pleased he has picked up so much so quickly that I'm expecting too much too soon. He didn't even know what a toy was when we got him so I knew I had a lot of work ahead. I've had him exactly 2 weeks, and he picked up these commands in minutes, so I know he wants to learn. It's good to be reminded that he's come such a long way in such a short time. I'll ensure he has the 'sit' on the way back in - reinforced with treats. It's critical for me that he doesn't Rush the door as I've got cancer; doing chemo and my leg can buckle if he shoves me. You'd think I'd have more patience, as I have two young teen girls so I practice every day, but great to be reminded. He is eager to please but I reckon there's a touch of teenage testing in there as well. Thank you for the kind advice. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 2 weeks is nothing this dog has had a massive change in life new home,new owners,new routine,new rules & new expectations .Patience is a must when training if your becoming frustrated then why should the dog comply ,training is about mutual respect & adjusting training methods to suit new delevops,you say he's eager to learn but one of the quickest downers of this is owners who become so regimental that the dogs switch of as they simply get frustrated. I don't teach mine to sit ,never found the need for it i prefer to to have calm dogs that can stand as i find that more useful & often more comfy for the dogs BUT i have one simple rule & no charging through doors & they now that they just stand & wait . The biggest issue is all household members need to do the training & follow the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Thank you. No frustration here - just trying to wirk him out -- as I'm sure he is trying to do with us. What do you consider regimented? Is it the insistence on sitting rather than remaining calm? The reason I chose the 'sit' was due to smaller children who visit, he's still pretty bouncy, and a sit gives me that few extra seconds to refocus him on something other than lunging for kisses. I'm getting great advice here, thanks. Edited October 21, 2014 by Stressmagnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It is a matter for personal preference, but in the case of a teenage bouncy dog I would recommend the sit as it is easier to see when/if he is about to lunge out of a sit than if he is standing and you can react faster and so guide him better, or as you put it "refocus" him. Over regimented, in my view, is a dog that never moves without command, not something I think you need to worry about in training a polite companion dog. But I also want to emphasise that every one in the household is aware that he needs to sit before going out that door, and how to reinforce that happening. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Are you also talking about the context of the front door? As in having him sit when someone knocks at the door? This can be very challenging for some dogs and you would need to build up to it slowly. So you would make sure he is reliable at sitting at the front door first. Then you could send one of your daughters out to the front door to knock on it. Once he is reliable with a familiar family member, you would then try it with someone 'new'. in the mean-time it could be a good idea to quickly pop him into a crate or another room when there is a knock at the door. (He could leave the room when he is calm). Edited October 21, 2014 by raineth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm with TSD in terms of waiting your boy out while he makes his choices...my 3yo labby boy will sometimes decide he doesn't want to do something; i just wait him out. I train for self regulation and i'm back to square one with a 10 week old labby girl. My initial training over the last two weeks has been mostly about 'nice' behaviour: sitting at the ex pen gate for me to come in; sitting and waiting to be released to eat; sitting in the crate waiting for me to leash her up; having them both sit nicely together to get a treat etc I haven't given 'sit' a command yet but i've certainly been doing the foundation clicker/marker word work in getting her to offer the sit at doorways, crates etc For me, with my labs, it's important that they self regulate that natural exuberance and give me behaviours rather than me asking for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thank you. No frustration here - just trying to wirk him out -- as I'm sure he is trying to do with us. What do you consider regimented? Is it the insistence on sitting rather than remaining calm? The reason I chose the 'sit' was due to smaller children who visit, he's still pretty bouncy, and a sit gives me that few extra seconds to refocus him on something other than lunging for kisses. I'm getting great advice here, thanks. Teaching calm for me is far more important than a dog that sits because you say so & then is not calm when it gets up . For me sitting doesn't mean extra control i expect them to do that whether standing,sitting or laying it all about alld ay every day havinga time & place for behaviour but im also a believer that my young gundogs need to be there age so they don't get frustrated so being bouncy is fine & if in that mood then i would sooner place them outside so they can have there moment then constantly be saying sit & no . My dogs are showdogs so being calm in public & around people is very important ,they see kids at the Royal Shows ,they aren't taught to sit but stand & as such now that when in a crowd standing & being calm is the right behaviour . What i often find with large breeds is sitting is uncomfy so they tend to wiggle abit & people get frustrated that they just don't sit still,there body is still growing & sitting still for ever is boring ,where standing is natural & easy. My dogs are taught to lay down because they found that comfy & it works well if in a crowd or talking a bit longer they just lay down & chill . My dogs are nearly 40 kg charging is not acceptable stand works well for me . But above all teaching calm with it being no big deal is far more important & you can also teach that with a stand & it be just as good & rewarding after all the dog will need to stand calmly at the vets,to be brushed,bathed ,nails done & when checking for any lumps & bumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yup. I'm thinking calm is the operative word here. It's a bit tough right now as he's just been neutered and going a bit stir crazy from enforced rest. I AM. TRYING THOUGH FOLKS - I don't want a regimented dog, just a polite one. Any tips on teaching 'calm'? I've been rewarding the 'down' but 'down' doesn't equal 'settled' - and he just bounces back up so he can go back down for a treat. Lab puppies - incorrigible LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 PS. I DO ignore him when he's yapping or barking and behaving like a pork chop but as soon as he gets the reward - no matter how 'settled' or calm he appears -- BOING!! Back up we go for a repeat command and a treat for complying. This dog makes me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Just curious....are you working with a clicker ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Yup. I'm clicker training. He will settle and calm down in his crate - but getting him to calm or settle outside a crate is proving challenging. He settles, I click/reward, he bounces up for a repeat. On occasion, he barks when the clicker comes out - and he gets a time out. I'm thinking IM reinforcing the excited 'I get a treat' behaviour rather than the calm behaviour. We also ignore him in an excited state -- sit for a pat, or all 4 on the ground. Where am I messing up? It's not his fault, I'm not reading him right, I know. Edited October 22, 2014 by Stressmagnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 oh, Stressmagnet! He's a lucky boy to have you. It's early in your relationship and he's a youngster adjusting to life. I think you are going really well. Another great point is the mere fact you are making an effort to train him as well. I sincerely think you are not messing up. Any type of training needs to be 'tweaked'. HUGS to you & dont over fret this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now