Georgeous Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hi.......... Please.....any advice appreciated & desperately needed. A dear friend has just called me in tears & doesn't know what to do. Her dog escaped the yard today into a reserve backing onto her house & apparently has attacked another dog. She is waiting for her fiancé to get home with full story but so far knows that the owner of the other dog rang police & the ranger has called to say he will be coming over tomorrow. The other dog is fine (as is hers) but the other dogs owner is shaken. My friend's dog is a bull mastiff cross & unsure what breed or size the other dog was. I don't know if the other dog was on a lead (if that matters??) but am told the reserve he had it in has a sign each end saying no domestic animals allowed. My friend's dog has never done anything like this before. Does anyone know what is likely to happen??? My friend is worried her dog will be seized & pts. Is there anything legal they should know, can they stop the ranger taking their dog, is there any questions they need to ask............help! This is in NSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) I think your friend is staring down the barrel of a Notice of Intention to declare the dog as a Dangerous Dog. She should read pages 10 and 11 of this document Priority 1 should be ensuring that the dog cannot get out again. Edited March 23, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Your friend needs to phone a lawyer for legal advice first thing in the morning. As neither dog was hurt & the other dog shouldn't have been on the reserve either I doubt it will be seized & PTS but friend should be sure of her legal rights before the rangers visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Further update: it was clearly stated at the time that the other dog was fine with no apparent injuries. Understandably, it may have anxiety issues after this of course. Apparently, they kept going back/forth along my friends fence line knowing full well it was upsetting my friends dogs. It was then that my friends dog scaled their fence to get over to the other dog in question. Please continue to offer any advice as they only have till the morning before ranger is coming. Thank you Haredown Whippets for your reply :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconRange Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Perhaps ask them to get in contact with Steve from K9Pro? I know he used to advertise that he could offer advice in these kinds of situations. Best of luck to them. I'm sure it's a horrible situation to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I second the suggestion to get in contact with Steve Courtney at http://www.k9protraining.com.au/ (Contact details at the bottom of the page) He's dealt with the whole fuss surrounding dogs that have attacked (humans) and are in trouble with the council before. the dog is unlikely to get PTS for attacking another dog. It would if it had attacked and damaged a human. The council cannot sieze a dog that is in your house without a warrant and police. They can enter and sieze one from the back yard. So I would be keeping the dog inside as much as possible and the side gates to the yard locked but I would not be leaving the dog loose in a yard it can escape from. All toilet breaks would be on lead from now until the fence is built better (Steve can advise what needs building). The owners of Houdini dog may need to build a dog run. They will have to build a dog run with a solid floor and dog proof walls and roof if the dog gets declared dangerous (which is a possibility). In NSW a dog can be assessed for "dangerous" and undeclared if it passes the test - which means the requirements for keeping it muzzled in public and locked in a run at home are lifted. I don't know what the process is for this - in this case the dog has not yet been declared. I don't think the issue of whether the other dog should have been there is relevant at this point because your friend's dog got out. There's possibly a fine for that (dog wandering at large?), and for attacking the other dog. And the other dog owner should also be fined for having their dog where it should not be. This is the NSW companion animals act. Lots of different bits apply. Do not invite the vampires in. Ever. Keep the dog inside "the Residence". http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/caa1998174/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 If the dog can scale the fence then the fence is inadequate. I'll be interested to hear what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I hope, for your friends' sake, that the dog is registered and desexed. If not, stand by for a raft of fines. As has been advised, if the dog has gone over the fence once, then it may do so again. Containment will need to be their first priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeous Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thank you all again for your replies so far........I have always believed information is power so the more she has the better. I have asked her to join DOL (which she just has) so she can post herself if needed or to personally answer any questions if it helps with advice. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Definitely get Steve on the phone. There's a lot of ins and outs and he knows what to do. It's easier to keep the dog from being declared than to try get it lifted after it has been declared so having someone in the know will be advantageous although not cheap. Nsw fine for an attacking dog is about $550, the other owner will need to sign a stat dec. Rangers are humans too, going in and trying to blame the other dog isn't going to get them far. Contrition and genuine attempts to prevent the dog escaping again will go a lot further. I'd be locking the dog in the house until it's all sorted. Keep calm and stay polite. Edited March 23, 2015 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Absolutely second what hankdog says. ETA - in hindsight the fencing obviously was inadequate but assuming it was in good condition and he scaled it for the first time (presumably - and do not mention here if it was not the first time!) they wouldn't have known that before. Now they do and being willing to address that, not just by going higher but by making SURE the dog cannot get out, will go a long way. Edited March 23, 2015 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Team Dog are also geared uo to help in these situations (or so i believe ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteandMolly Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thankyou everybody for your advice, It truly is appreciated. After lots of tears, worried hypothesis of what might happen and absolute shock, having this information with us can help us get the best possible outcome for our boy. This is totally out of character for him and as a witness stated, the owner of the Maltese saw the dogs barking and saw our two jump up in the air to 'have a look' at who was there and they stayed there until he managed to scale our 6ft fence. I'm completed gobsmacked he did as he is not a strong jumper and can't even jump to get into the car some days lol Please keep the advice and information coming as I want to be as best informed as I can. I have recently been converted from a cat lover to a dog lover thanks to georgeous! Please note I have emailed k9pro and will ring in the morning. Also we have been informed that the ranger is coming around tomorrow to 'look at the yard' there is a possibility also as our town is small that if they send the ranger I think they will, we do know him well. Wether that will play in our favour and the fact that the Maltese wasn't hurt and witnesses who are strangers to our boy were easily able to pull him away and put him back in the yard we will find out tomorrow. Like I said this is VERY out of character for him. Neither me or my fiancé nor our housemate was home at the time of the incident but this happened all in the space of an hour between people leaving home and coming home. I will keep you informed and thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Also we have been informed that the ranger is coming around tomorrow to 'look at the yard' there is a possibility also as our town is small that if they send the ranger I think they will, If the ranger does come - make sure the dog is secured in the house. don't let the dog out to meet the ranger and don't let the ranger in the house. NSW is not as bad as Victoria was for seizing dogs but different rangers do different things and they can't go into the "residence" without the owner's permission. Do discuss what all your options are and make sure you get any notice of intention or anything like that "in writing". Afterwards (or during) - make notes of what you said and what the ranger said - just in case the lawyers need it. Don't blame the other dog or owner. Owners of small white dogs tend to think of the dogs as harmless... so they think they can do whatever they like. The ranger should know about the reserve being "no dogs"... it's not your job to say how he deals with the other dog owner. Maybe ask how the other dog is doing - but I guess you know that already. Do discuss what you need to do to make your yard secure, and see if that will be enough to satisfy the ranger that nothing else needs to be done. I'm guessing it could have been any sort of critter on the other side of the fence - the key thing is your fence is improved so your dogs cannot get over it or under it, or otherwise escape. Check your entire fenceline for signs of digging too. Before the ranger shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteandMolly Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Also we have been informed that the ranger is coming around tomorrow to 'look at the yard' there is a possibility also as our town is small that if they send the ranger I think they will, If the ranger does come - make sure the dog is secured in the house. don't let the dog out to meet the ranger and don't let the ranger in the house. NSW is not as bad as Victoria was for seizing dogs but different rangers do different things and they can't go into the "residence" without the owner's permission. Do discuss what all your options are and make sure you get any notice of intention or anything like that "in writing". Afterwards (or during) - make notes of what you said and what the ranger said - just in case the lawyers need it. Don't blame the other dog or owner. Owners of small white dogs tend to think of the dogs as harmless... so they think they can do whatever they like. The ranger should know about the reserve being "no dogs"... it's not your job to say how he deals with the other dog owner. Maybe ask how the other dog is doing - but I guess you know that already. Do discuss what you need to do to make your yard secure, and see if that will be enough to satisfy the ranger that nothing else needs to be done. I'm guessing it could have been any sort of critter on the other side of the fence - the key thing is your fence is improved so your dogs cannot get over it or under it, or otherwise escape. Check your entire fenceline for signs of digging too. Before the ranger shows up. Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 DanteandMolly, I too went from being a lifelong cat owner and lover to a dog person and have found it fascinating and rewarding learning about doggy behaviour. From the sounds of it your boy was a dog being a dog doing things that come naturally to dogs. As you know though we and our dogs live our lives crossing paths with other dogs being dogs and humans being humans and sometimes they clash. And it can be really scary on both sides. It doesn't sound like you have a horrible dog by any means, the other dog is ok so it could have been much worse. However you do have a dog that needs above the average management. That is doable. As you have been, take all the advice on board then think positively and responsibly and go from there :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hi DanteandMolly I've worked in Animal Management investigating these types of incidents so will provide you with the info that I can. It's unlikely given there was no injury that a ranger will go for a Dangerous Dog declaration since the introduction of the 'menacing' dog category in Nov 2013: 33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog” (1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it: (a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or (b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than vermin) but without causing serious injury or death. That last bit in bold tends to move rangers away from dangerous dog declarations these days unless there was at least some sort of serious injury OR repeated problems from the same dog. To be honest I think most reasonable rangers in this situation would issue you with a couple of fines and a nuisance order (which is basically a 6-month good behaviour bond) rather than anything more serious. Menacing is a potential, though, if they're more 'hardline'. I think the main thing you need to do which will give you the best chance of only minor action being taken is be able to show the ranger today the steps you have already taken towards ensuring your dog cannot escape again. Nothing impressed me more than when I would turn up a day or so after the attack and the owner had already put things in to place or at least got the wheels in motion to prevent it happening again without me having to have done anything yet. Maybe think about getting a roofed dog run for your dog so that it's unable to have access to the fenceline? Tell the ranger that you are keeping the dog inside the house until you can sort the problem. Don't blame the other dog owner - fact is your dog escaped your property and behaved aggressively towards another dog. Blaming the other owner usually gets rangers thinking that you aren't taking it seriously. The huge size difference between the dogs shows that your dog at least showed bite inhibition/self control. If it had wanted to seriously hurt the dog it would have - end of story. That's a good thing. Offer to provide to the ranger in writingthe action you're going to take and proof of it when it's done. Main thing I would say is have your plan in place for preventing further escapes already so you can tell it to the ranger when they arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think your friend is staring down the barrel of a Notice of Intention to declare the dog as a Dangerous Dog. She should read pages 10 and 11 of this document Priority 1 should be ensuring that the dog cannot get out again. Not necessarily depends how slack your council is. When two dogs escaped their yard and ripped into my muzzled on lead greyhounds causing shocking injuries the owner of the attacking dogs got the maximum fine and a slap on the wrist as it was first offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think it would be prudent of your friend to inform the ranger exactly what she intends to do in respect of her inadequate fencing. If the fence was adequate the dog could not have escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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