Creating Value In Humans

[Lou&Minty]

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster :) Sorry for the essay!

Just a question stemming from reading the approaching strange dogs thread.

We acquired a beautiful 5-6 month old cross bred puppy (greyhound x mastiff we think) about seven weeks ago.

We have recently finished four weeks with Underdog and loved it and will most likely go back for intermediate and/or agility training at some stage, however we want to get some of the beginners training cemented before that.

His recall is great apart from when there is no other dogs around, and as such we keep him on the lead when we are likely to come across other dogs at the park or at the beach. We use 'who's that?' (shoving treats in his mouth when he looks at us) and this has worked quite well for on lead. We practice the recall in all environments, but obviously he places higher value in other dogs than us when off lead. We have tried a variety of different treats, but when his attention is on another dog (owner has approached us with their dog/let their dog lunge at us/off lead dog has approached us) I can be shoving the treat into his mouth but obviously his arousal is wayyy too high and he won't take the treat/pay any attention to me.

I know some answers will be that I need to remove dog from situation, need to get out of that situation in order to lower arousal, but we live in St Kilda and are always out and about with the dog in tow. Sometimes its hard to even see the dogs hiding under cafe tables! We have a small backyard and rely on the exercise at the park and beach to keep him happy and we love to see the greyhound in him stretch out and run!

I guess my question really is, how do we go about creating higher value in humans than other dogs? People in that thread have mentioned that they have trained this into their dog, and I was wondering how to start this? Is it something we can learn from books, internet or do we need hands on training?

Many thanks for reading the essay :)

[Cosmolo]

Unfortunately there is no fast solution- the answer lies in building reinforcement history in situations where there are high levels of distraction. Remember the idea of "Who's That" or the "Look at that" game as some here will know it is to actually allow the dog to look at the other dogs but to positively interrupt them before they leap/ lunge/ bark/ become overly aroused etc. Over time you allow them to look for longer and longer before interrupting etc. Make sure you're not waiting for the dog to look at you.

The key with these sorts of exercises is to try as much as possible to keep the dog under threshold- which does mean increasing distance where possible etc. Is your dog receiving regular meals as well as training treats? One way to increase the value of the food rewards and as a result, value for you is to use as much of their daily food allocation in training as you possibly can.

In addition, using games like targeting in situations where there are other dogs is great as it allows the dog to move, jump etc but in a way directed by you.

Keep in mind also that 7 weeks is a short space of time so if you're seeing improvements, you're already doing a good job. You are right to keep him on the lead when other dogs are around. Each time he is off the lead and learns it's more fun to play with other dogs than hang out with you it will extend your training process. Sometimes it's short term pain (controlling situations, increasing distance, not letting him off lead when other dogs are around etc) for long term gain.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Cosmolo

[Dogsfevr]

What treats are you using ,is the dog a food driven dog or just eats it .

For example our show Greyhounds enjoyed food but it wasn't a passion for them ,a soft toy or human talk/touch meant more to them .

Alot of Mastiff we board i wouldn't call food driven either .they enjoy there food but again not a passion .

But think outside the box for treats

[Simply Grand]

I'm glad Cosmolo posted, I kept wanting to reply but only have my phone at the moment so not set up for long replies :)

Also have a look at the NILIF (Nothing in life is free) approach, where basically for them to get anything valuable to them in life, including food, pats, going through door ways, being let off lead, anything really they have to do something to earn it. It can be as simple as just focus on you, doesn't have to be elaborate but just something that shows them that all the good things life come from you.

Mine are very food driven but also respond well to attention and affection so I always give them something positive when they focus on or especially come to me, even just around the house but especially out and about. It can be as small as just a smile or quick pat or can be a big party with treats and "yay, what a good dog you are, hooray!" depending on the distractions around.

I also sometimes around the house or at the park I'll randomly play a little game or ask for a little trick to do something fun with them when they aren't necessarily expecting it. I also touch them and talk to them a lot, which isn't an intentional training technique, just me being a crazy dog person but I think it builds the bond as well.

So all those kind of things teach them that 1) I'm fun and great things come from me; and 2) it's always worth keeping an eye on me because one of these great things could come at any moment.

The other thing, as Cos said, is the more structured training sessions (which don't have to be long, can be a few minutes or an hour in a class) which are noted as "ok, focus on me it's work time (with lots of fun and rewards) until I say so now" will build that reinforcement history and ability to communicate with each other as well.

[Simply Grand]

Well, that wasn't a short post after all! :laugh:

Just thought as well, when I'm initially taking them into a new situation - whether it's a new dog or existing dogs in a new place - I keep them close whether on lead or off and call their attention back to me and reward highly at really quick intervals. So off leash for example I call their attention back to me with an excited voice before they get more than a couple of steps away from me, sometimes changing directions, and giving treats to remind them that even though this is a new, exciting place I'm still here being exciting and offering delicious rewards.

As it becomes less novel and exciting to them i'll gradually give them more leeway, but still regularly call their attention back and reward, and keep up the something positive whenever they voluntarily check in with me.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Simply Grand

[alpha bet]

There are always different approaches that can work - dependant upon the individuals involved.... most of our classes are held off lead and the owners have to learn how to gain their dogs attention, so working with distractions is something that I find we have specialised in over the years. So here are a few ideas.

First thing I suggest is to find areas with high distraction - dog beaches and off leash dog parks.... (3 times a week)

Wear a jacket/vest with zip pockets so you can place treats and not have dogs poking their noses inside....

Now take a big breath....... let it out... stand still .... and let the dog play and run and frolic......

When the dog has sniffed and absorbed much of the info from the surrounds then start walking away... if your on the beach walk along the shore.... if in a fenced dog park walk around the perimeter...

When the dog follows to see where your going (and he will)... bob down and hold out a treat.... then promptly turn and keep walking....

After perhaps three times of this..... you might find your dog is hanging with you as you walk.... he might run away for a sniff and then back to you....

Be happy with little flashes of attention and then dog is looking away... normal... let him explore...

As you become more relaxed and confident with your dog you may find that he is starting to hang with you more and more... even asking for more attention from you.... so now you can ASK him for some simple tricks whilst on the beach or park... perhaps a simple SPIN AND REWARD... only repeat 3 times and then move on..... then repeat.... and move on....

The objective is to have the dog asking you for more games to play.... if you tried this three times a week for three weeks you will see a big difference.... remember to relax...hence BREATHE.....

Hope this helps and happy to chat if you need more ideas.

[Salukifan]

My only advice would be to make the training an ongoing thing from here on in.

Bonds with people require constant reinforcement. You have a young pup (short attention span) who will hit the terrible teens shortly.

Obedience training in group classes can only reinforce the idea that the presence of other dogs doesn't mean all attention on you ceases.