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To Vaccinate Or Not.


Scrappi&Monty
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 http://www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines

 

Any Vet who is advocating annual vaccinations is in my opinion money grabbing and borders on irresponsible.

Many many years ago when annual vaccination was acceptable one of my Vets told me not to bother vaccinating my dogs after they were about 7 or 8. He said as they had been vaccinated every year their immunity would be good.

 

Like several others I now vaccinate at 15 or 16 months and that is it. My dogs have all lived to be about 13 without any issues and that is a good age for my breed.

 

I would love to titre test but find it extremely hard to find someone to do it at a realistic price within a reasonable distance from me. The response from a couple of Vets when I have asked about titre testing has been "why bother, it's cheaper to just vaccinate" and another "what is that?" :eek::banghead:

 

 

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9 hours ago, Flashsmum said:

Whatever you decide, make sure you get the parvo vac.  

 

There is an outbreak on the south coast of NSW which has hit a lot of dogs.  They did a mass vaccination last week, and about 1000 - 1500 turned up to get their dogs vaccinated.  So many have not been able to recover, and it's sad that for the want of a vaccination, poor dogs have suffered and then died. 

 

Please titre test for immunity, or get the vaccination done.

Yes we got all the vaccines done

(C5) and will think about changing it next year. I will ask my vet about titre tests too. I heard about the parvo outbreak on the radio this morning, I heard it was out west (NSW)? Suppose the south west. 

Terrible though, it's a nasty nasty thing, wish it didn't exist! 

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8 hours ago, Airedaler said:

 http://www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines

 

Any Vet who is advocating annual vaccinations is in my opinion money grabbing and borders on irresponsible.

Many many years ago when annual vaccination was acceptable one of my Vets told me not to bother vaccinating my dogs after they were about 7 or 8. He said as they had been vaccinated every year their immunity would be good.

 

Like several others I now vaccinate at 15 or 16 months and that is it. My dogs have all lived to be about 13 without any issues and that is a good age for my breed.

 

I would love to titre test but find it extremely hard to find someone to do it at a realistic price within a reasonable distance from me. The response from a couple of Vets when I have asked about titre testing has been "why bother, it's cheaper to just vaccinate" and another "what is that?" :eek::banghead:

 

 

 

That's a pain, I haven't quoted yet but will do next year. 

And that's a bit worrisome "what is that?" Haha. 

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I've been a vaccine minimizer. I'm preparing to move from the US to NZ and was unpleasantly surprised to have a dog who was only 1.5 years out from a 3 year rabies vaccination fail a rabies titre test, and another just barely pass.  This makes me hesitate when I hear 'good for life' claims.  I'll be sticking to the 3 year routine. 

It's unfortunate that good long term experimental trial results are not available for many diseases for which we vaccinate.  The tests required, however, require keeping a pack of experimental animals for years, and then exposing them to the disease.   Not cheap, and risks getting some dogs very sick, if not euth'ing them.

 

The Rabies Challenge (a long term trial of rabies immunity response) is showing that immunity is not life-long for that vaccine. 

"Fifteen dogs were included in this trial.  Only one of the 5 dogs vaccinated in 2007 showed protection against rabies, while 4 of 5 dogs vaccinated in 2009 (80%) demonstrated protection against a rabies virus challenge. Once all 5 of the unvaccinated control dogs showed the very early clinical signs of rabies virus infection, they were humanely euthanized."
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/latest/summary-of-latest-rabies-challenge-trial

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I've changed from annual C5 to the three yearly for parvo and stuff and an annual for kennel cough variations.

 

Working for us. 

 

I don't want to go without vaccinations because I've seen what some of those diseases do - for dogs, and equivalently what happens to the unvaccinated in humans (have a deaf cousin, and I personally was at kindi with a lot of kids in calipers that could not walk without crutches cos of polio - and those were the lucky ones that weren't in lung machines.

I do like to wait a year or so when a new vax comes out - before getting it (if appropriate) because when it hits a much greater population - sometimes the drug companies find out things they did not during the drug trials.

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I agree Mrs Rusty Bucket, I wouldn't want them to go without vaccinations completely. Way too risky and not worth the risk of the disease. (of course that's the point of vaccinations)

I think that it is strange though that some vets (incl. mine) still recommend annual vaccinations when the AVA and the vaccine companies have proven only every 3yrs is necessary. Us humans don't need vaccinations yearly, we only have them as babies, as teenagers and then we're pretty much good to go. (depends on the vaccine though)

 

I definitely am 100% for human vaccines, it really pisses me of when parents don't vaccinate children "for the risk of Autism" etc.

Once we had a fill in teacher at school who told us A) her political opinions and that "Greens are w@nkers" excuse the french, and B) that immunisation is "rape"  

two rather inappropriate things to be talking to a class of students about in a Geography class. A family we know had a little boy before the parents divorced, and his mother wouldn't get him vaccinated. The dad now has a new wife and a new little baby, and the little boy isn't allowed to see or play with his baby sister because if she caught something she could die or be horribly effected for the rest of her life. Despite this, the little boy's mother still won't vaccinate him in case he "gets autism". (not how that works but anyway). The point of vaccinations is that they are supposed to have everyone vaccinated to stop the diseases existing, the reason vaccinated people (or dogs) can still get the diseases is because non-vaccinated kids (or dogs) pass it on. It sucks that tiny little babies die from diseases they couldn't be vaccinated for yet, just because some people are too selfish :( :mad            (:offtopic:oops sorry!)

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18 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I've been a vaccine minimizer. I'm preparing to move from the US to NZ and was unpleasantly surprised to have a dog who was only 1.5 years out from a 3 year rabies vaccination fail a rabies titre test, and another just barely pass.  This makes me hesitate when I hear 'good for life' claims.  I'll be sticking to the 3 year routine. 

It's unfortunate that good long term experimental trial results are not available for many diseases for which we vaccinate.  The tests required, however, require keeping a pack of experimental animals for years, and then exposing them to the disease.   Not cheap, and risks getting some dogs very sick, if not euth'ing them.

 

The Rabies Challenge (a long term trial of rabies immunity response) is showing that immunity is not life-long for that vaccine. 

"Fifteen dogs were included in this trial.  Only one of the 5 dogs vaccinated in 2007 showed protection against rabies, while 4 of 5 dogs vaccinated in 2009 (80%) demonstrated protection against a rabies virus challenge. Once all 5 of the unvaccinated control dogs showed the very early clinical signs of rabies virus infection, they were humanely euthanized."
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/latest/summary-of-latest-rabies-challenge-trial

Oh that's no good Sandgrubber, you were just trying to do the right thing! :-/

I'm glad rabies is something we don't have to worry about in Australia (and I believe NZ too?), so that's why our quarantine is so strict! Good luck with your move btw. 

That rabies challenge thing doesn't sound pleasant at all! :(

 

edit; Did you mean they were only vaccinated 1.5yrs ago? or 4.5yrs ago and were only 1.5yrs overdue? I am skeptical of the "good for life" claims too...

Edited by Scrappi&Monty
..
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I had my 9 and 8yo dogs titre tested.

They had puppy course, first yearly booster, then one had another then trienniels.

The were 1 month before their trienniel booster due dates.

One was fine, good immunity. The other had barely any inmunity at all.

I would vacc or titre. I would never just wing it.

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7 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

I agree Mrs Rusty Bucket, I wouldn't want them to go without vaccinations completely. Way too risky and not worth the risk of the disease. (of course that's the point of vaccinations)

I think that it is strange though that some vets (incl. mine) still recommend annual vaccinations when the AVA and the vaccine companies have proven only every 3yrs is necessary. Us humans don't need vaccinations yearly, we only have them as babies, as teenagers and then we're pretty much good to go. (depends on the vaccine though)

 

I definitely am 100% for human vaccines, it really pisses me of when parents don't vaccinate children "for the risk of Autism" etc.

Once we had a fill in teacher at school who told us A) her political opinions and that "Greens are w@nkers" excuse the french, and B) that immunisation is "rape"  

two rather inappropriate things to be talking to a class of students about in a Geography class. A family we know had a little boy before the parents divorced, and his mother wouldn't get him vaccinated. The dad now has a new wife and a new little baby, and the little boy isn't allowed to see or play with his baby sister because if she caught something she could die or be horribly effected for the rest of her life. Despite this, the little boy's mother still won't vaccinate him in case he "gets autism". (not how that works but anyway). The point of vaccinations is that they are supposed to have everyone vaccinated to stop the diseases existing, the reason vaccinated people (or dogs) can still get the diseases is because non-vaccinated kids (or dogs) pass it on. It sucks that tiny little babies die from diseases they couldn't be vaccinated for yet, just because some people are too selfish :( :mad            (:offtopic:oops sorry!)

Apparently as adults we actually should be vaccinated again as immunity does drop off.  I fell over at a horse event and landed on the only rock in the paddock it was only a graze (the reaction I had from the adhesive covering the site was worse than the original graze) but the first aiders and the doctor were like OMG here get a tetanus shot asap (horse manure carries tetanus).  And if someone has a baby only adults who have recently been vaccinated should go near it til the kid is vaccinated themselves.

OUr vet is every 3 years for vaccinations plus every year for kennel cough but they schedule them to come in every 6 months for a check up anyway and recommending a blood test each year when they get older anyway so I get annoyed with the rubbish about vets using the annual vaccination as an excuse to get you in there. 

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My dogs only ever get puppy shots. I titre at about 12-15months and then every 3 years. So far I have never needed to revaccinate. Ages are 12, 10, 6, 4 and 2. I would never just assume they are covered and always titre to make sure, but I refuse to vaccinate if it's not needed.

 

My dogs train and compete in agility regularly which I believe contributes to their high levels of immunity. They would be frequently exposed to low levels of the viruses which keeps their immune memory active and no boosters are needed as a result. A dog that rarely leaves the yard would probably need topping up as their levels would drop without exposure.

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8 hours ago, DeltaCharlie said:

My dogs only ever get puppy shots. I titre at about 12-15months and then every 3 years. So far I have never needed to revaccinate. Ages are 12, 10, 6, 4 and 2. I would never just assume they are covered and always titre to make sure, but I refuse to vaccinate if it's not needed.

 

My dogs train and compete in agility regularly which I believe contributes to their high levels of immunity. They would be frequently exposed to low levels of the viruses which keeps their immune memory active and no boosters are needed as a result. A dog that rarely leaves the yard would probably need topping up as their levels would drop without exposure.

 

This is me too. I've really come around to not doing that first booster 'just because' and would rather test to see if it's necessary.

 

I think when I talk about only doing puppy shots (which also are probably oversubscribed 'just in case' ) and that's it for life, people mistake me for a whacko anti vaxxer. Not so at all, I firmly believe in vaccination, but am vehemently against over vaccination. I think we have only started to scratch the surface on the detrimental effect to an animals health from repeated unnecessary vaccinations. 

 

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10 hours ago, rubiton said:

Apparently as adults we actually should be vaccinated again as immunity does drop off.  I fell over at a horse event and landed on the only rock in the paddock it was only a graze (the reaction I had from the adhesive covering the site was worse than the original graze) but the first aiders and the doctor were like OMG here get a tetanus shot asap (horse manure carries tetanus).  And if someone has a baby only adults who have recently been vaccinated should go near it til the kid is vaccinated themselves.

OUr vet is every 3 years for vaccinations plus every year for kennel cough but they schedule them to come in every 6 months for a check up anyway and recommending a blood test each year when they get older anyway so I get annoyed with the rubbish about vets using the annual vaccination as an excuse to get you in there. 

Yeah that is probably a good idea, the immunity levels would drop off, especially in certain older people or people with low immunity anyway. 

 

Your vet sounds like she/he has a good schedule! :)

Unfortunately some people though never bother to take their dogs to the vet unless they are obviously sick. I have a friend whose dog only had puppy vaccines and has never been to the vet since, not even for a checkup. :(  

 

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On 19/01/2017 at 5:50 AM, Gruf said:

 

I think we have only started to scratch the surface on the detrimental effect to an animals health from repeated unnecessary vaccinations. 

 

I'm curious as I haven't read up on it before, what are the detrimental effects to health from over-vaccinating?

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On 1/18/2017 at 5:06 AM, sandgrubber said:

They were vaccinated 1.5 years ago. 

I was pretty shocked and called the lab that did the titre tests.  They said something to the effect: "Yeh, failing titre tests within the period supposed to be covered with the vaccine is pretty common".

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got Malcolm's Vaccicheck results back from Primal Paws!

 

He was Strong Positive for Parvovirus, Strong Positive for Hepatitis and Positive for Distemper. These results mean that he is considered to be protected against these diseases and does not need a C3 booster.

 

There are two ratings below that. Negative (vaccination required) and Weak Positive (may require vaccination).

 

It was a simple blood test and cost $50.

 

He still had an annual checkup and kennel cough vaccination.

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On 18/01/2017 at 11:46 PM, DeltaCharlie said:

My dogs only ever get puppy shots. I titre at about 12-15months and then every 3 years. So far I have never needed to revaccinate. Ages are 12, 10, 6, 4 and 2. I would never just assume they are covered and always titre to make sure, but I refuse to vaccinate if it's not needed.

 

My dogs train and compete in agility regularly which I believe contributes to their high levels of immunity. They would be frequently exposed to low levels of the viruses which keeps their immune memory active and no boosters are needed as a result. A dog that rarely leaves the yard would probably need topping up as their levels would drop without exposure.

Where do you get titres done? How much does it cost too? Since we live close-ish by I might have a look into it. Not sure if my small local vet does them and if she did it would cost more than vaccines for sure. 

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There's a couple of different ways.

 

There's a blood test they can send off to pathology. All vets should be able to do that, but it can be very expensive. Prohibitantly so.

 

A second way is the Vaccicheck titre test. This is in house and a lot cheaper, but not many vets offer it as it's so new in Australia.

 

More details and some vets listed here: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/267474-vaccichecklooking-for-interested-dog-owners/#comment-6845142

 

Dr Jaime Jackson from Primal Paws (Jumabaar on DOL) may be able to do a house call depending on your area.

 

 

 

 

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The rabies vaccine is an odd one. When I got vaccinated, I was advised to have myself tested after the pre-exposure vaccine course and they usually tell you to keep checking every 2 years or so. It is well known for having a strange effect on some people and no one knows why. Different people need boosters at different times. It is also known for fading relatively quickly. 

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