R00

Sorry to the OP, I was going to ask this in a new thread but thought it may be ok in this one.

Are many purebred Border Collies still used as working dogs these days? This is real question from someone that has no idea. In my travels I can't seem to recall seeing any on farms etc.

Purebred working BCs are still used as are working kelpies. There would be very very few ANKC BCs working on real properties.

Ok last dumb question for the year, do working BC's look the same as ANKC BC's?

Sorry to the OP, I was going to ask this in a new thread but thought it may be ok in this one.

Are many purebred Border Collies still used as working dogs these days? This is real question from someone that has no idea. In my travels I can't seem to recall seeing any on farms etc.

In very simple terms each person is responsible for keeping their dogs in their yard and other dogs out of their yard. If everyone kept by this mantra then we wouldn't even be discussing this issue.

My next door neighbour is currently talking about getting a mature dog. We get all extremely well and we regard each other as friends. He is going to make sure his dog can't get near ours and I am going to make sure mine can't get near his. Not because of any agression or issues but because it is the right thing to do.

I wouldn't care if a Lion moved in next door, but I sure as hell would be making sure it can't get into my yard, likewise if a Maltese moved in. No difference except maybe fence height! ha ha

slightly off topic , I own two well adusted Staffords and they are the only dogs around us that don't bark at other dogs and fence fight. So much so that we have a dog behind us that goes nuts all the time at my two and the two tough staffords just ignore it. Staffords are no different to any other breed of dog if they are brought up well they are fine, but just like any other dog if they are not brought up well you have issues.

I was even asked why I would own such a breed!! What made this even funnier was at the time my two were on a lead sitting calmly while the guys small fluffies (three of them) set out to attack my dogs and were going crazy.

So my point is don't judge all dogs by one experience with the breed, I am sorry to say however that it is unfortunate that staffords as a breed seem to attract more than their share of idiot owners (from my own experience)

http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/regret...1124-187ho.html

Worth a 5 min read if you want to kill some time

And I have to say, good job everyone!

what about a griffon?

Question for Lili and Steve,(and others if they know)

How do these types of dogs go if they need to be rehomed at a mature age? Does it take a while for trust to develop or does the dog (I know each dog would be different but as a general rule) just know that they need to trust their new owner? And would the different breeds see any change as a opportunity to move up pack order due to their strong personalities.

i need some help getting my puppy to go for walks, she will only go about 30 steps then she digs her heels in and refuses to go any further,

she is 16 weeks old and is a cavalier x poodle,

our first outing was not far as she is only little, the second day she heard a bus near by and hated the noise of it - cowered down scared and afraid of it,

the next day i took her to a walking track away from traffic, but there were some people and she did not want to walk near them - cowered down afraid again

she goes to obedience training and has been twice and loves it - people, dogs, the works and enjoys it!!!

so i took her to a grass area where no traffic and no people were, first day her was excellent she was able to run on her lead in the grass and had a ball, so i thought great will keep coming back here, BUT the next day we went down there and as she was running about a motorcycle came through - (even though they are not allowed down there ), it scared the daylights out of her, she took off running that fast she ripped the lead out of my hand, my daughter finally caught her and she was shaking so bad

next day took her back but she refused to go down there,

have tried parks, cycle tracks ect but don't know what to do next,

how do i get her to walk?????

any ideas would be greatly appreciated

thanks

At 16 weeks I wouldn't really be too worried about walking her, she's only a baby.

Do some focus work with her, marker (clicker) training, play games, build her confidence, allow her to drag a leash around the back yard then start teaching her loose leash walking under low distraction (your yard and those 3 houses each way are more than fine for that). Take her out and expose her to new things - school, kids, dogs, weird looking people in hats. Sit in front of a shop or on a street corner or in the park, click and treat her (or just praise and pat her) for focussing on you/ignoring scary things (you can drive to where-ever you wish to go, you don't have to drag her there on a leash). Keep up your obedience training and practice NILIF too - and (while some people may not agree with me) I think crate training helps build confidence and security too.

Walking will happen in time but seriously, at 16 weeks just enjoy her ;)

Good point!

Mrs RB:

So vet and chief instructor said - "she's having you on - just drag her and keep walking".

Did they add a check chain to the advice?

Why do so many folk ascribe every damn behaviour to the dog trying to put one over on the handler?

Dogs that are overwhelmed by situations can shut down. I have a dog like this. I also had one of the "just give her to me and I'll sort it" type of instructors early on. So he dragged my dog and I didn't know better then or I'd have stopped it. She never budged.. never.

That dog lacked confidence. By building her confidence in ME, we got past it. I made sure that all her experiences were positive, that my responses to her behaviour were never worse than neutral and I worked hard at making her comfortable. And it worked.

I would agree with you PF, with the exception of some dogs. Rosie would try and pull the wool over my OH eyes when she would stop walking but wouldn't when she was with me. So I got the OH to give her a slight drag and it worked. Rosie doesn't pull that stunt now. But to the orginal poster this is not something to do unless you are absolute certain that she is just not scared or lacks confidence. You will do far more damage long term if you do that. And also Rosie was 6 months old at the time.

ReadySetGo is talking about my two muts and their K9 leads. I absolutely love them for a two main reasons,

1/ They are very comfortable to hold

2/ They just will not break, full stop.

The only negative I can think off is they may be too heavy for puppies or smaller breeds. I think Readysetgo made that comment a while back when she used to walk one of mine as a pup with K9 lead. The weight tends to pull the dog to one side slightly if you dont hold the lead correctly.

You can get them direct from the usa if you like, similar leashes are available at leerburg.com. You can also google amish leather leashes and you will find quite a few places selling them. You can also get the matching leather collars if you like the look of the old school dog collars.

EDIT for clarity

I work in a dog friendly office we have up to 7 dogs some days

Most days

Amstaff

Maltese

Griffin

Gorden Setter

Poodle cross breed

Occasionally

pug

westie

boxer

small mixed breed dog

nice to see the dogs around the office. All well behaved. They get free rein around the office.

How absolutely awesome! can I ask what sort of business it is?

Also those of you that take your dogs to work do you find a downside is that if you have to leave them home some days they are don't cope too well being without you?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/whos-that-d...90828-f2ip.html

I work in a dog friendly office we have up to 7 dogs some days

Most days

Amstaff

Maltese

Griffin

Gorden Setter

Poodle cross breed

Occasionally

pug

westie

boxer

small mixed breed dog

nice to see the dogs around the office. All well behaved. They get free rein around the office.

Also just one other thought, there are always plenty of people who are keen to take on a puppy, often it's the older dogs no one seems to want... I am happy to take on a problem dobe, one who may have proved to be a bit much for someone... That's just me, but also having picked up after babies for the past 2 yrs, I am over anyone, or any dog peeing on my floor!!!

I am the same, much prefer a dog over 5 months. Both my current two were 'late' to my family , one at 5 months and one at 9 months

I get between my dogs and the oncoming dog, and then let loose. As a rule I wear shoes whenever I walk my two. And I don't make apologies for it.

I even had one lady tear strips off me in public after I tried to kick her dog after it rushed at my two after dark with a menacing growl. She carried on like a pork chop for so long and loud that people came out onto their balcony's and were just laughing at her.

My two were calm behind me and her dog was going nuts. I just asked her if she had finished her rant as I would like to continue my walk, that just incensed her further. Told me she would call the police as I had attacked her dog..... :-) Then I stupidly said if I had actually landed any of my kicks her dog would be a lot quieter than it currently was and that I was more than happy to save her the money and call the police on her behalf from my phone....... Again that was just throwing petrol onto the fire....

i agree justice, I guarantee more then half the population of Australia wouldn't know the difference between an APBT and a cross, or even something that's looks even a little like a bully.

And you cant compare an good bred APBT to the crap you find here in the suburbs, but this crap will keep on being bred unless they make it legal so people don't have to stay underground and can produce GREAT dogs that will then become the image of the APBT.

i'll go even further a say 90% of Australians would have no idea what an APBT looks like and 99% of people have probably never met one. (and that 67.5% of all stats are made up on the spot )

BSL will be overturned, it is logical progression. It is a pattern we have seen in foreign countries who have been there, done that and dropped BSL.

No it won't.

Not as long as certain individuals keep breeding for fighting, dog aggression and protection of their property (ie: their Hash stash/crop and VB empties collection out the backyard).

APBT owners in certain areas ARE the breeds worst advocates as they are less intelligent than their dogs yet retain the ability to speak and use their opposable thumbs.

Until deadshits stop owning and breeding them.. BSL will live long and prosper.. particularly in certain council areas in Sydney.

I love the breed and agree with your statement Cordelia. Sometimes you need to state the non pc view that most people are thinking but just don't want to say out loud. BSL is here to stay it just needs to be managed better. It will never be totally gone, it will however evolve over time to be sometimes worse and sometimes better that the current set up.

Nothing is safe with Bear, best not to leave your shoes out, dont let him near the clean clothes or dirty clothes.. At the moment we are getting some averies built out the back yard, so Bear is stuck inside half the time, anyway i come inside during a break and turn around to Bear and he yourns and to my suprise his tounge is bright pink, fluro pink to be exact, I then investigate a little further and he has a pink texter sitting right next to him, now everytime i go close to him all i can smell is texter lol.. Just a quick question but what is the best way to stop dogs chewing on stuff you dont want them too? Is it if you see them chewing something that they shouldnt just take it away and pass them one of their toys? Thanks guys..

Don't leave it where they can get it.

As the owner of two destructo muts, what PF said about sums it up. My two have a hard plastic addition. So any spade handles, plastic buckets, sprinklers, hose ends, ping pong balls are all fair game! On the plus side they tend to stay away from shoes and the hose. So it is not all bad,

If the BSL train carries on its momentum and goes in the direction of some US states/councils or European countries, I don't think being a pedigree is going to matter.

It does make me fearful for the future of dogs.

BSL has to be fought on the one irrefutable fact that BSL breed discussions tend to ignore.

It doesn't work. It has never worked. Targetting "dangerous breeds" fails to protect community from all dangerous dogs.

End of story.

I wholeheartedly agree, the only way out I can see is to get some sort of pilot going to actively reduce dog attacks based on owner education (not indiscriminate killing of dogs deemed to be dangerous based on breed), to provide actual proof that this is how dog attacks can be reduced.

I just don't understand why lawmakers cannot see this. I guess it is a question of votes, the quick fix answer.

I think this relates to something bigger than the Amstaff/Pitbull debate (no offence to owners of either breed intended), while everyone bickers about the fact their breed of choice should be saved, no progress is going to be made.

I would like to see dog attacks reduced (irrespective of BSL), getting something going that really worked woudl benefit everyone - the victims and the dogs.

ETA horrible spelling.

Because most non dog owning people want to see an end to the pitbull.

Those who doubt my comment go and randomly find 10 people you do not know and ask their opinion on a whether pit bulls should be banned.

Part of the issue is a bad media wrap and opinions turning into fact due to the number of times a person hears it. A lot of people I talk to have never even seen or met an Amstaff or an APBT and still think they should be banned.

The best thing any owner can do is become an ambassador for your breed, get the dog out and about meeting people and try to change opinions from at the ground level.

It will take a brave (read: unusual) politician to try and change BSL if s/he even has the slightest thought that a bull breed may attack a child. At the very next dog attack the politician faces having his name dragged through mud as the person responsible for abolishing BSL which led to the attack. In very simple terms BSL is well and truely in the too hard basket to be changed in a positive way, however politicians can get cheap votes by toughening it up.

There is just no incentive for any member of govt. (including councils) to remove BSL. It needs to be changed at the ground level by public support and education. Which quite frankly is not currently working, the message of deed over breed is just not getting out there.

Just my view.

Roo

Edit for clarity

The only Bull Breeds that will exist shortly around the country will be those with ANKC papers. So much for the big win, this was cracked up to be just a week ago.

BUYER BEWARE and make sure you get your ANKC papers that correspond with the microchip on them and in the dog.

You really think that having a piece of paper is going to save dogs?

Maybe not but having papers is better than having nothing. At the bare minimum it will save any confusion as to what breed the dog is, which by reading the above judgement was most of the case.

And the Whippet results are impatiently awaited.

Seriously PF who would own a whippet? really! Pull yourself together and get a Cannonball stafford!

thanks Sway, you are the best! :D

Hi RPMgirl - I would not recommend that you get a Lab as you prefer an outside dog. Labs are extremely closely bonding dogs and need to be included as part of their family and be allowed inside. Labs left outside tend to be ignored in far too many cases and they end up being left to their own devices, getting up to all sorts of mischief and then become out of control and unmanageable for their owners. Despite families best intentions of interacting with their outside Lab, it fails to happen enough and the odd time it does, the Lab is too exciteable and boisterous, which can be frightening for children and overwhelming for adults, so they tend not to want to interact with the Lab more and more, to the point that the poor Lab is then ignored and excluded from family interaction.

So many Lab youngsters find themselves in rescue, pounds or being privately rehomed because their families have failed to meet their social and training needs. It never fails to amaze me how many people have totally unrealstic and unreasonable expectations that their adorable Lab puppy will develop into a happy, well trained and well behaved Labrador when it has had minimal family contact and interaction and minimal or no training :D.

Also some Lab owners who do keep their labs outside majority of the time, may allow them inside the odd time and then have this very unrealistic and unreasonable expectation that this poor Lab who has spent the majority of its time outside is going to be this perfectly behaved Lab inside They get frustrated and angry with the poor dog because it is highly exciteable and running around inside, jumping on people and furniture, chewing kids toys, shoes, etc and possibly toileting inside. The dog doesn't know any better as it hasn't been brought up inside and doesn't know the rules of proper inside behaviour as it has never been exposed to them and shown how to behave inside. Needless to say, the poor dog doesn't get to experience much inside time after shocking and frustrating the family with its unsastisfactory behaviour when it has been allowed inside.

In my personal experience of being a lab owner of many years and knowing of too many instances of families not meeting the needs of "outside" Labs, I do not believe the Labrador will be a suitable breed for you.

I used to have a lab and I still love them as a breed, but they are certainly not the dog that a lot newbies think they are. I know of a couple of labs around where the families were totally unaware of the activity level and demands of a young lab. IMO labs suffer the same issue as Staffords in some regards as they seem to be the default breed for a lot of families whereas they just don't suit everyone. If I had to pick two breeds that should be the fall back for most families they would be the pointer and visla. Both labs and staffords would be in the top 10 but not near the top.

Just my view.

What about a Pointer? great breed, my girl is full of energy so likes walks ect but also very gentle with kiddies. She isnt too crazy or over the top, well she can be but she tends to just no how to act around certain people, they are also a dog friendly breed so great to take to parks and doggie beaches without too much worry!

I thinka few of the different gundog breeds would suit! labs, goldens, pointers, some of the spaniel breeds? There have been a number of pointers in need of rescue lately!

Good call Sammy. 100% agree