Tempus Fugit
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Posts posted by Tempus Fugit
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Illegal live baiting of greyhounds is moreover a form of cheating just as drugging horses in thoroughbred and harness racing industry and doping of human athletes is cheating.
Humans are constantly trying to cheat, whether this be in sports or other activities, eg driving over the speed limit or plagiarising student essays. If you are not going to ban the activity associated with the cheating then one is faced with the issues of:
- Detection of the cheating in the face of people's rights to privacy (you can't simply enter a private greyhound training facility or fly a surveillance drone over it any time you feel like it); and
- What sanctions do you apply to people found guilty of cheating?
There is also the issue of hypocrisy. As WoofnHoof said, we have zero tolerance for dog fighting, however as a society we tolerate the hunting of animals with dogs (eg pig hunting and I dare say some pig dog pups are blooded during training). Where do we draw the line between cruelty and allowing a dog to express its natural predatory instinct?
We also have a lack of understanding of the neurological processes associated with erotic stimulation of the brain of predatory species (ourselves included). Why does a cat enjoy playing with a mouse before killing it? Why do wild canids go on a killing spree when encountering domesticated sheep? Why do some humans get a kick of killing animals for pleasure (recreational hunting) while other humans get addicted to 'pleasures' such as bullfighting, animal baiting & fighting, animal torture? Yet other humans get a kick out of perversions like BDSM, torture of fellow humans (aka ISIS) or get addicted to drugs or the sexual abuse of children. In the past we've used the biblical explanation of sin, but if we accept that all living species evolved from primitive organisms including their electrochemical computers (brains), why and how does erotic stimulation occur?
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On 8/08/2016 at 6:31 PM, mystify said:
Worthwhile to have a read of this (but only for people that have an open clear mind, not for those that have tunnel vision and refuse to see the truth and only wants to keep on believing their own lies and narrow perception of society as a whole).
P.S re greyhounds being exported overseas to Asian countries, I and my many friends are totally against it, I'm not a racist but I do know that their culture and mindset is totally different and the animal lovers are in the minority over there.
It is the Govt's fault that for years they never did anything to prevent the greyhounds from being sold over to China and Macau.
Macau is a totally horrific end of the line for 100% dogs that go over there to race. Barbaric nation, the culture thinks nothing of using cruel inhumane methods to kill the dogs.
For years a minority of trainers sold dogs in Australia to an exporter that specialised in sending the dogs overseas (trainers don't export, they have no idea how to, it's the exporter (usually a dodgy trainer/operator with business skills) who advertises that he is looking for slow dogs to send to Macau and faster more expensive dogs to send to a mainland province in China where there is a brand new racetrack apparently (chinese businessmen pay between $1000 to $250,000 to buy quality greyhounds from Australia to use in two dog match races)...
I've seen those ads years ago and even was approached in an email a few years ago by an agent for a Chinese businessman who was interested in buying a fast racedog I had at that time... he offered quite a large sum of money that could have paid all my bills and bought me a brand new car.. but I had no hesitation in saying NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE TO EXPORTERS.
My friends who are like me, also were approached and big money offered for their fast dogs too.. they all said NO!! It makes me violently sick to my stomach to think of the poor greyhounds being sent to live and die horribly in a foreign country with a different culture.
I made quite some enemies in the racing industry with trainers who had sold their dogs overseas, as they didn't appreciate my viewpoint and didn't want me interfering in their business or try to agitate for a law change to stop it happening.
I've received death threats, knee capping threats, simply for saying I didn't agree with trainers sending dogs to China or Macau. I am a very passionate protester against cruelty and export of dogs to asian countries.
If I knew the racing industry was filled with live baiters, abusers or drug cheats I would have been a very passionate protester against the industry.
So for me not to protest against the industry, it shows that I know what it is like inside and outside the industry and have met more decent people with the same viewpoints as myself, than the minority of scumbags who think nothing of live baiting, cheating by using drugs on their dogs, and using standover tactics on people they don't like.
Just because an extremist Muslim terrorist bombs a city, do you label every single Muslim a criminal and a terrorist and ban them all from living?
No. You're supposed to act like a decent human being that has a rational mind and don't use emotive tactics to destroy all Muslims.
Same with the greyhound racing industry. Just because 10% of trainers are scumbags, you don't try to destroy the other 80% of decent trainers.
Its not only China that the dogs get exported to. Also Vietnam http://e.vnexpress.net/news/travel-life/visit-vietnam-beach-town-and-bet-for-the-fastest-dog-3553782.html
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Well, according to the NSW Companion Animals Regulations Part 3 Section 16:
(l) a working dog that is ordinarily kept in a part of the Western Division of the State that is not within a local government area,
(m) a working dog that is ordinarily kept on land categorised as farmland for the purposes of Part 3 of Chapter 15 of the Local Government Act 1993 .
doesn't have to be registered in accordance with Section 9 of the Companion Animals Act.
I wonder how many farmers actually bother to register a dog kept on their property whether or not it is used for livestock herding?
I think they still have to be chipped though.
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Is it normal for farm dogs to be registered?
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This thread reminded me of a Spanish organisation I recently came across that aims to supply protection trained 'escort dogs' (PEPOS) to women that are victims of gender violence. Their manifesto is:
This week has been presented the Association Project Pepos Alhaurín de la Torre , an entity that aims to provide comprehensive protection to victims of sexist violence, mainly through escort dogs.
A new association, whose project is unique throughout Andalusia, will focus its work on meeting and covering all the needs that women may have in terms of protection, social integration, training, overcoming fear and increasing self-esteem from multiple fields of action . The scope of action will be the entire Autonomous Community.
The idea is to ensure the safety of women and to ensure that they can develop a life free of macho violence with the support of a dog specifically trained and with a training that the users receive. And it is that the Pepos manifests itself as a system of immediate protection in case of danger, because it dissuades the alleged aggressor and avoids their approach to the victim the time necessary for them to come to the State Security Corps .
The association, which was recently created and based in Alhaurín de la Torre, has a total of 20 people, including directors, advisors, collaborators and external professionals : 14 psychologists and psychologists, 3 lawyers and lawyers, 7 trainers, Materials and, in addition, a total of eight dogs, of which five are in preparation phase and another three, already ready to be donated to the victims of macho violence.
Search on the web for PEPOS PERROS if you want to know more.
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You can get dog hobbles in the USA. They are used mainly for training gun dogs. However they are even more restrictive than an anti jump harness. Personally, for fence jumping I would look at a ping string or invisible fence system, which have been discussed in previous threads.
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Well, with macho guys like this in SA....
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Probably no worse than the training that CWDs get over there. I've experienced a similar reaction trying to lift a dog into a tub to give it a bath.
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Apparently still alive
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The RSPCA has appealed for public help to save a dog seen running across a southern Queensland highway with its mouth taped shut. Truckies have reported seeing the skinny-looking dog, believed to be a German shepherd-cross, running across the Cunningham Highway. It was last seen near a helipad near Aratula, southwest of Brisbane, on Monday morning. The RSPCA has appealed for anyone who has seen the dog to get in contact as quickly as possible, fearing it could die of dehydration. "If its mouth is taped it won't be able to eat, and drinking would also be very, very difficult," RSPCA Queensland Inspector Laurie Stageman said. "If it's not caught soon, it will be probably dehydrate and that's a horrible way to die." Anyone who has any information about the dog is urged to call the RSPCA on 1300 ANIMAL
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With regular dog attack items appearing here maybe forum admins should create a sub-forum specifically for dog attacks?
consider the heading is "In the news" where is the problem?
No problem,but news of a dog attack comes up with such regularity that I thought it might be worthwile creating a newss sub-forum specially for the subject. After all, there is a sub forum for cruelty & abuse news.
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With regular dog attack items appearing here maybe forum admins should create a sub-forum specifically for dog attacks?
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And even if a massive fine were imposed,the owner probably wouldn't have the money to pay it.
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Like many other cities, the area in question is in the middle of the cbd, frequented by people of low socio-economic background and mental issues living in ajacent suburbs. Such people do not always act reponsibly, whether as dog owners or otherwise.
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Pit Bulls and other restricted breed dogs will be allowed in Victoria with strict requirements on owners under changes to be introduced by the Andrews Labor Government next year. Link
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They are not proceeding - not because its cruel but because of a bird.
i know.... we are a pitiful mob in reality.... i have a real problem with the stunning hypocrisy we display in deciding who and what gets to be treated in a humane manner
h
I still cant believe anyone ever thought of it let alone get support for it and go ahead. What a bloody disgrace.
Well, the brains behind the project has also proposed exporting dingo meat to south-east asia. Maybe next on the list will be live exports to Yulin.
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Apparently the Qld government has terminated the experiment. I suppose now the 4 dingoes will themselves face early termination.
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They did not define what they meant by "coursing dogs",
From my understanding a 'coursing dog' for the purposes of the POCTAA would include a dog used for lure coursing, registered as a 'coursing dog' in accordance with the recommended changes to the CAA.
I'm surprised the proposed changes to the POCTAA regarding the keeping of bait animals for blooding would only apply to 'coursing dogs'. I would have thought such a provision would include persons keeping hunting dogs as well.
Also, if the commission thinks lure coursers blood their dogs, then theoretically the muzzling laws and green collar tests that currently apply to greyhounds should also apply to lure coursing dogs.
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Yeah but why? There is nothing more potentially unethical about the hobby than there is about ANY amateur dog sport. Nothing. They chase plastic bags. They KNOW they are plastic bags. Why should we change hobbies for a deeply flawed regulatory proposal. Instead, why shouldn't the proposal be howled down as the embarrassing stupidity it is?
The only logic in this regulation is as a step to banning all pets. It has zero logic otherwise. It is not about preventing cruelty. There is no cruelty.
It's all about dogs chasing something, enhancing that drive, as I mentioned with my story about the showing and trialling unethical things are done just to satisfy egos. Can you say you know all the lure coursers in your state and how they train. I'm guessing lure coursers don't bait with animals but I suppose it could be a just in case measure. I'm with you it is stupid but unfortunately it is same the kind of sport.
Well here are relevant extracts from Vol 1 of the report:
(Note CAA = NSW Companion Animals Act; CAR = NSW Companion Animals Regulations; POCTAA = NSW Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act)
8.61 The Commission did not receive any information suggesting that live baiting isoccurring in relation to lure coursing. Those who engage in lure coursing donot do so for financial gain .
According to Dogs NSW: Lure coursing aims to preserve and develop the coursing skills inherent insighthounds and to demonstrate that they can perform the functions for which they were originally bred. The hounds chase plastic bags on a course laid out to simulate escaping game. The plastic bags are pulled around on a nylon string course, propelled by a hand controlled motor.666
8.62 The Commission accepts, nevertheless,that, because the lures used in lure coursing are meant to simulate live prey,there is a risk that dogs which participate in the sport may be trained or trialled using small, live animals. However, the trigger point for the lawful keeping of small animals on a property which houses or kennels coursing dogs other than greyhounds cannot be registration under the CAA. Coursing dogs other thangreyhounds are not exempted from registration whilst they are involved in the sport.
8.63 The Commission considers that there should be a mandatory requirement that dogs which engage in the sport of lure coursing are registered as such on the Companion Animals Register, at least during such period or periods of time as they are involved in lure coursing. A failure to register them as coursing dogs should be a criminal offence under the CAA. The penalty should be the same as that which applies in respect of a failure to register a companion animal (discussed below). Because coursing dogs may engage in lure coursing at various times during theirlifecycle, notification under s. 11 of the CAA should be adopted as the meansby which a coursing dog obtains the status of a coursing dog under the CAA. The owner of a coursing dog which no longer engages in lure coursing should also be required to give notice pursuant to s. 11 of the CAA. The CAR will require amendment to make each of these events a "notifiable event" under the CAR. If this recommendation is accepted by Government then it may wish to consult with ANKC Ltd. As the regulator of the sport ANKC Ltd may consider it appropriate to ensure that coursing dogs that are involved in lure coursing do not trial, train, or race unless they have the status of a registered coursing dog .
8.66 The recommended amendments to s. 21(1) to 21(1)(E) of the POCTAA appear below:
(1) A person who: … (d) uses an animal, live or dead, as a lure or kill for the purpose of blooding greyhounds or in connection with the trialling, training or racing of any coursing dog, or (e) keeps or is in charge of a live animal at a any place used for the housing or kennelling, trialling, training or racing of any coursing dog, is guilty of an offence .
Maximum Penalty: 1,000 penalty units in the case of a corporation or 200 penalty unitsor imprisonment for 2 years, or both , in the case of an individual .
(1A)For the purpose of subsection 1(e) coursing dog means: (a) a greyhound which is registered in accordance with the rules made in relation to greyhound racing under the GreyhoundRacing Act 2009; and (b) any other coursing dog which is registered, or should have been registered, as required by (1B) .
(1B)A coursing dog, other than a greyhound, must be registered under the [Actgoverning the regulator] prior to any, trialling, training or racing .
Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units .
(1C)The owner of a coursing dog which fails to register it as required by subsection (1B) is guilty of an offence .
Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units .
(1D)A person shall not trial, train or race any coursing dog, other than agreyhound, unless it is registered in accordance with the [Act governing the regulator] .
Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units .
(1E)For the purpose of subsection 1(e) and (2B) animal means an animal which is capable of being used as a bait, quarry, or lure to entice, excite or encouragea coursing dog to chase .
8.67 Section21(2B) of the POCTAA should be amended to read as follows: In any proceedings under subsection 1(d) evidence that the defendant was in charge of a live animal or in possession of a dead animal that appeared to have been used as a lure or kill in the manner referred to in that subsection is prima facieevidence that the defendant used the animal as a lure or kill in that manner .
8.68 Section21(2C) of the POCTAA should be amended to read as follows: 21(2C)In any proceedings under subsection 1(e), evidence that the defendant kept or was in charge of a live animal at any place used for the trialling, training or racing of any coursing dog which animal was capable of being used as a bait,quarry or lure to entice, excite or encourage the coursing dog to chase it is prima facie evidence that the defendant kept or was in charge of an animal for use as a lure or kill for the purpose referred to in that subsection .
Seminar - Making Canberra more pet friendly
in General Dog Discussion
Posted
This seminar may be of interest to Canberra people, although with newspaper articles such as this I doubt that the topics will get much support from the government.