m-sass

Why is sharing an opinion difference derailing a thread? It's my opinion that ANKC recognised breeds will not become restricted breeds reinforced by the Amstaff resolution as a test case to support my opinion. If anyone thinks that ANKC recognised breeds are vulnerable to restriction and need to support anti BSL regimes on that basis, good luck to them

That's absolute rubbish, how long did it take for the registered Amstaff issue to be rectified when the court considered the Pitbull/Amstaff as the same breed??. If they didn't whack the Amstaff on the list, other ANKC recognised breeds with no association to restricted breeds are as safe as houses..........this "your breed will be next" scare mongering to assist Pitbull supporters is the joke of the century

Yes,I had a DA Lab for 14 years, he was a dud and poorly bred which happens too, but the Lab has a breed standard and aggression isn't correct trait, but what's the standard and traits of a Bully/Mastiff/ Ridgeback/ Rotty X breed, is an aggressive one a dud or a good one from result of the mix and match??

The point I am making with the "hit with sticks" scenario to bring out defensive aggression to the point that a dog will go into fight before flight is genetically in the dogs character as I mentioned with protection dogs, the lack of genetic fight under pressure is what prevents many protection candidates being unsuitbale for those roles, in fact there were some stats I read on police dog candidates where only 1 in 300 average GSD's had the fighting traits required for successful offender apprehension unless they were bred by specialist breeders who specifically breed for fighting instinct and the said breeders of specialised working dogs don't sell to bogans thankfully!!. The other thing I might add is that it's rare to get true fight from a female dog either, there is some truth in the entire male theory and is the reason that 95% of dogs working in high level security are entire males, although there are some exceptions to the rule in the male/female aggression ratio, entire males have a much higher percentage??. As primarily pet owners, we don't use, neither do we want aggression and fight from dogs, but there are people and organisations globally who do for various working roles which reflects the breeds chosen to fulfill these roles, many breeds favoured in other countries are restricted breeds here especally breeds that don't lend themselves as easily to handler control and trainability as breeds like the GSD, Rotty, Belgian Shepherd etc. High level uncontrollable aggression in man stopping guarding power is demonstrated largely by Bull/Mastiff type breeds essentially at higher ratios than herding breeds which are more handler orientated and trainable in defensive roles. These non herding breeds that do the deed bred by BYB's offering tough looking dogs to the bogans are bred for the purpose of intimidation and aggression, they are not nice dogs gone wrong in the hands of moron owners, they are genetically aggressive dogs in the hands of morons who can't control and manage them properly who enjoy what these dogs offer as an extension of their egos IMHO.

And look, here's m-sass to tell us how vicious, nasty and aggressive crossbreeds are. So very predictable. The dog in this case is a piece of crap, you know that as well as I do, sure it broke it's collar straining and lunging on the leash to do the deed on an innocent poor old passive dog minding it's business. We know the owner stuffed up and dog owners even the best can stuff up, my point is when we do stuff up with a good stable dog on the end of the leash, this type of needless loss of life and trauma doesn't happen, with a crap dog in this case look at the result Let's have a look at the breeding on this dog oh, a BYB excellently renowned for recorded heritage.....what was this dog's grand father like and what character type is expected of a Mastiff X who knows what.....I will just look that breed mixture up for the character standard Personally I would LOVE to see breeders put under the spotlight and answer the cause to breeding rubbish, putting just anything together with the breeding insight that male and female makes puppies makes me sick, I am over it completely And it may not have anything to do with his background at all because here's the thing, m-sass: you have no idea what this dog's breeding was. Nary a clue. None whatsoever. Unless you know the person concerned, you couldn't possibly know anything other than what has been in the press. Give it up, your posts are nonsensical. The breeding result is in the outcome of the situation, but of course moron owners have this magical talent of making good and well bred stable dogs aggressive........funny that specialised trainers never have that magical talent to turn dogs genetically lacking in traits into police and security dogs but morons can albiet they can bearly train a dog to sit on command but they can make killing machines, it's nonesense. The reason the morons have these dogs is that they don't need training to be aggressive, they are aggressive genetically killing through natural instinct. Yes, with counter conditioning, good training and management, naturally aggressive dogs can be controlled to a point with behaviour modification, but you can't change the genetic traits of the dog. Even the old "hit with sticks, unsocialised, chained up" theories on aggressive dog behaviour, aggressive reactivity has to be genetically in the dog's character for this type of treatment to bring it out, most will shut down to this treatment, few will come out in strong defence drive unless fight is in the dog's genetics to begin with. Security people are caught out all the time on a global front using dogs trained in bitesports for protection, these dogs will all bite on command to a point but when challenged many back down, shut down and run away, they genetically lack fight, courage and gameness which can't be trained into a dog that doesn't have the genetic capacity. Untrained dogs that kill purely from instinct don't belong in the community and neither do the breeders of such dogs who sell to any moron who wants one and the authorities need to clean up where all this originates being the morons who breed dogs like this IMHO

And look, here's m-sass to tell us how vicious, nasty and aggressive crossbreeds are. So very predictable. The dog in this case is a piece of crap, you know that as well as I do, sure it broke it's collar straining and lunging on the leash to do the deed on an innocent poor old passive dog minding it's business. We know the owner stuffed up and dog owners even the best can stuff up, my point is when we do stuff up with a good stable dog on the end of the leash, this type of needless loss of life and trauma doesn't happen, with a crap dog in this case look at the result Let's have a look at the breeding on this dog oh, a BYB excellently renowned for recorded heritage.....what was this dog's grand father like and what character type is expected of a Mastiff X who knows what.....I will just look that breed mixture up for the character standard Personally I would LOVE to see breeders put under the spotlight and answer the cause to breeding rubbish, putting just anything together with the breeding insight that male and female makes puppies makes me sick, I am over it completely

Well, I stand by my opinion that we will be a long time waiting for a Labrador or a Standard Poodle to be reported in a killing rampage upon passive targets??. Breed and breeding has everything to do with genetic aggression unfotunately??. I don't think poodles are represented at all in bite statistics, and I would bet that would have to do with the type of person who owns them. Labradors figure much higher in the bite statistics in Aus than pitbulls ... and always have done. Labradors mostly belong to reasonable, responsible people, but once they decide they will bite, they are worth watching. In this case, I would apportion 98% of blame to the bogan owner, who provided no training, and didn't have the wit to see that a $1.50 plastic collar with studs from the $2 shop was NEVER going to hold that dog ... if he was the one in the Sunrise video. But he would have bought it for the studs, not the strength (oh, and the price!!) People seem to have no respect these days. He had none for the other poor dog or its owner, or his own dog. Almost not quite human I had a DA Lab from a poor breeding Jed, sire was DA also and withdrawn from showing because of the DA and made into a stud dog instead, wonderful, lets reproduce the DA trait is what happened Having said that though, I didn't have prey driven gameness in the Lab, he would beat up on dogs in close proximity but the point is, I agree it's the owners resposibility to effectively control dogs with aggressive traits, but the trait is in the dog's genetics and even a moron can't easily make a stable dog DA without the genetic component present. I would proportion 99.9% of the blame in the dog's genetics as the cause in this case and 100% blame towards the owner for mismanagment of a crap dog. It's easy for people to think what a wonderful job they have done raising a good stable dog that hasn't got an aggressive bone in it's body genetically, but try raising a genetically aggressive dog and see how much work is involved in doing so to keep the community safe.

Well, I stand by my opinion that we will be a long time waiting for a Labrador or a Standard Poodle to be reported in a killing rampage upon passive targets??. Breed and breeding has everything to do with genetic aggression unfotunately??.

Hey Jessca C tick compliance is not something that is obtained in the US, it's an Australian standard. There are many things you can import but would need to obtain certain compliance for such as motor vehicles etc - you can bring them in but not use them. Hope that helps clarify :) Where does the department of communications do dog patrols to see if they are wearing non C tick approved Ecollars :laugh: The C tick requirement more applies to commercial Ecollar resellers within Australia.

Yeah, of course the owner is a moron, a scumbag tool etc ect, but I would put my home on the line in a bet that if the owner had a well bred Labrador from a registered breeder who broke it's collar, the poor little dog would be still alive and the poor ladies effected wouldn't be traumatised.......punishing the deed unfortunately doesn't bring that poor little dog back to life and undo the trauma the poor ladies suffered??. The faster they stop BYB's breeding crossbreed crap the better IMHO..........crap I refer to as powerful breed mixtures with a genetic predisposition for aggression and gameness.

Proper guard dogs are trained to attack anyone except the owner, patrol dogs, police/security type dogs who work with a handler are the trained ones that can be called off.

I can't see how the breed is at fault or why the dogs were put down being guard dogs escaping their compound providing they were registered and recognised guard dogs, being dangerous is a guard dog's job, they are not family pets. Guard dogs escaping into a public place and attacking should be a mandatory jail sentence for the owner IMHO.

You can import prongs, it's just restricted (i.e. you need to have a permit). There isn't an import restriction on e-collars but the warranty won't extend to Australia and there is no C Tick compliance which makes them illegal to use or even own anywhere in Australia. Besides that, the shipping costs usually make importing small numbers of collars quite expensive. How can they be illegal to own when not import restricted.......anyway who is policing Ecollar ownership and use to pay 3 times the price from a local supplier??.

Perhaps it's not a ligitimate guide dog and is just a pet Lab??. It sounds unlikely for a guide dog not to be neutral to other dogs and not respond to handler command

If the ANKC determined a dog that had been bred was unregistered, coudn't they deregister the progeny of that dog and every dog born to that ancestory??. Personally I think a pedigree ammendment with a blank space for the offending dog is a reasonable action in the circumstances??.

Yep, I already have them on ignore. M-Sass is a troll who has been trolling DOL for a long time under many different user names. I can't believe the owners got away with just a $550 fine I haven't been rude at all.........because I have a different outlook on the situation how does that makes me a troll??. The thread originally began where the dog (a known killer) jumped the fence and attack poor little Sarge, the thread is not in Rainbow Bridge which I understand as a place of support, sympathy and "tact". The point is regardless if anyone chooses to deny the facts or not, a known killer has done this deed before on Sarge, he was lucky the first time and the second attack was not random the way it see it, they knew of the dog's capabilities and potential danger where obviously what ever was done to ensure Sarge's future safety wasn't effective given that the dog did the same thing it did previously taking Sarge's life this time in what must have been a terrifying ordeal for poor little Sarge??. It it isn't the owners fault "legally" and a dog should be safe in it's own yard I agree, but when you have a strong jumper, a known killer that has tried the deed before on the same dog in the same circumstances if you don't take evasive action at a high enough level it's bound to happen again which it did is my opinion on the situation and I am sorry if people don't like my feelings on the matter. If this had been a "random" attack that hadn't occurred previously my thoughts would be totally different, but the fact is, Sarge's owners knew the capabilities of this dog and in my opinion, there was more that could have been done to ensure his safety........perhaps we can all learn from this??

what is the aim of your questions? You seem to be inferring that the owner of Sarge is to blame? Personally, If a next door neigbours dog had jumped my fence and attacked my dog previously, unless the situation had been rectified as in improved fencing or a secure run erected etc, I wouldn't take my dog into an area where it could be vulnerable to a repeat attack. You know what, there is a guy who feels like crap because the dog jumped the fence when he was watching Sarge have a toilet break. There are three kids traumatised beyond belief and my daughter who is inconsolable. Poor bloody Sarge had to toilet sometime, where would you have suggested if not his own yard? Do you know how long this attack took? No. Council had issued a warning after the attack in August last year. The dog had been 'restrained' for quite a long time. The dog is apparently now at a property 'in the country'. Owner will be fined $550. This is of no comfort to my daughter. They haven't even come and apologised to her. Her little boy thought the Pets at Peace man was going to make Sarge better. Rozzie, I totally understand the trauma and it's an absolutely terrible situation that the owners of that dog are 100% responsible for poor Sarge's fatality. Perhaps Sarge could have been toileted in the front yard or in his own secure run although this shouldn't need to be the case, the situation highlights the gravity of living in close proximity to a dangerous dog what can happen, how fast it can happen and the fact that you can't take any chances in these situations in assumption of your dog's perceived saftey. I am not laying blame by any means towards your daughters supervision of Sarge as she probably went 10 yards to keep him safe, but with dog's like the one next door with the type of owners the dog had, sometimes you have to go 12 yards for effective safety in these circumstances??

Inspector Rex is one of my favorites, Santo vom Haus Zieglmayer was the original Rex

I read that the dog has killed before and the dog jumped the fence and attacked tells me that the dog is dangerous to other dogs and to be "extra" vigilant in taking precautions in this dogs presence. I was thinking given that it was 10 months ago this dog offended the first time, it may have been ok in the meantime and precautions relaxed a bit and poor Sarge was caught off guard..........I understand that scenario but we can only learn something from these terrible situations and perhaps re-think precautionary measures when living in close proximity to known dangerous dogs.

(b Whether an offence has been committed with a dog loose in an unfenced yard would be determined by the council definition of a "person's effective control". A dog under this law can't be left unsupervised in a fenceless yard, but given in this case the dog didn't run onto the street (a public place) and a person was in attendance with the dog, "effective control" may be satisfied??

what is the aim of your questions? You seem to be inferring that the owner of Sarge is to blame? Personally, If a next door neigbours dog had jumped my fence and attacked my dog previously, unless the situation had been rectified as in improved fencing or a secure run erected etc, I wouldn't take my dog into an area where it could be vulnerable to a repeat attack. So not the time or place for such a comment. Why............I am simply stating what I would have done in similar circumstances. To me it doesn't matter whether the dog shouldn't be allowed to jump the fence or whether my dog should be safe in it's own yard or whether the dog gets PTS and the owners get 20 years jail, it doesn't bring my dog back and with that said, I would take "extra" precuations given what happened previously and the potential of the dog re-offending.

what is the aim of your questions? You seem to be inferring that the owner of Sarge is to blame? Personally, If a next door neigbours dog had jumped my fence and attacked my dog previously, unless the situation had been rectified as in improved fencing or a secure run erected etc, I wouldn't take my dog into an area where it could be vulnerable to a repeat attack.

Why don't the police and the military use Airedales now instead of GSD's and Belgian Malinois??

Out of interest, it was 10 months ago the dog first jumped the fence and attacked Sarge........what's happened in the 10 months since that kept Sarge safe until now??.

If the cost of the puppy was higher than one from the litter not considered a breeding prospect, the cost difference is most definitely arguable if the puppy didn't turn out. It's not just bad luck that a breeder keeps a fist full of money for supplying a dud priced as a breeding show prospect??. True. But whether or not the pup was in fact a higher price than it's sibling may not be information that is easily obtainable. Yes, that could be a problem. Dogs are considered as goods so if it was well established that the pup was purchased for breeding/show and wasn't up to the standard in a small claims tribunal, I think the buyer would win that and the breeder would have to take the pup back and provide a refund or supply an appropriate replacement. I don't think because a puppy is a creation of nature and is not a handcrafted manufacture provides an out for the seller/breeder on the basis of an act of nature to be exempt from responsibility or obligation??