dragonwoman

Barbaric IMHO but understand why the breeder feels it necessary (I have heard the deceptive lengths people will go to get an entire puppy of some breeds).......I would ask for (and offer to pay for if necessary) a vasectomy in a male, would definitely not buy a juvenile desexed female, seen too many cases of spay incontinence which leads to lifetime medication and indignity or exclusion of the bitch from the life she has been used to

Dogs could hang themselves

You would need to call Dogs Victoria, as far as I know it is not open during the day or at regular hours...........the property is leased, not owned by members as KCC Park is........and the grounds staff are not there every day..........

It's a way to spread scent.

Yes, but some dogs do all the time and some don't ever do it. The instinct presumably comes from claiming territory (dominance and communication) and communicating that you are around and available for mating (bitch in season) so it's interesting to think about why individuals do it when not all of them do.

I believe, after many years and lots of dogs, some rescued, that it is not simple dominance, dogs who feel insecure will do it to reassure themselves they have life under control.........so some bottom of the heap dogs do it too

Need recommendations for good places for dog training in Melbourne's south east but they must actually be positive reinforcement only!

We just got back from the worst class ever, I sucked it up for class but left in tears

Apparently they cant teach no jumping to dogs without a “correctional collar” and they encouraged dogs to jump up by exciting them and patting their legs and then yanked it when it did!

Apparently that’s how you teach, you set up scenarios where your dog will fail and then suffocate it with a martingale collar harshly.

Apparently a dog barking in fear at a passing scooter needs to be firmly corrected and then taken over to where the scooter was and corrected again (until it yelped) for sniffing the ground where the scooter was – how is this even dog training at all?

I am at a loss, I pretty much covered my dogs eyes and gave her treats while this happened.

None of this was done with my dog (nor will it ever be!) but I was encouraged to get a martingale collar which I refused because my tiny puppy was sniffing a lot while we were waiting for the next exercise even though she was responding well when actually asked to do things.

I am very happy with training my dog myself (which I have been doing) I just want the added distractions of dogs working in close proximity which I haven’t managed to get successfully at the park to the same level as training.

Name no names but was this a local obedience club or a private "club"?

I do agility and I would not keep my dog in the car with no shade on a hot day, even with all windows open etc. Cooler even under a tree, or the shade that the car creates with its shadow if you have no shelter with you. If you had to keep the dog in the car and the day was scheduled to be hot, I would probably just pass.

I made shadecloth covers for my metal crates, or you can buy silver mesh (try and get the more open weave one), I don't like soft crates in the summer....you can rotate a crate to suit the sun if it is out of the of the car....and I don't mean to be hurtful but would Malcolm benefit from a break from the outside world whilst he deals with his social issues?

I am entered in Obedience on Sunday but we won't be going as they forecast 32 deg, last trial of the year, I love going and seeing everyone at Croydon but this year we will give it a miss, dog comes first, bath day instead and they can all drip dry!!! Always next year, it's a long break in Victoria but I think a lot of dogs enjoy the change and come back fresh after the big holiday

I'd fly her - but I know plenty of show people who have travelled across with dogs in canopies on utes or cages in the backs of wagons without any problem

We have taken dogs over and back a few times, first time we used cages, other trips they stayed in their trailer..I would NEVER leave dogs in a vehicle over summer in case it was hot, even at night, dogs have died, ferry people will put you in best spot if you have animals but they will be heavily booked on that date .....I would fly her over, maybe using a kennel to collect her until you pick her up but I fear they will be booked out too, or you could kennel her in Melbourne and have them send her over when you get there, think you would need a pet transport company....is Waynerod still around?

What would you think of a hip score of 2:12? He assures me the high score was due to injury. None of the others in the line have high scores including her parents, grandparents or her previous pups that have been tested.

I would want to see a written opinion of an experienced injury vet before I accepted that

I would avoid that breeder. If they do not select sire and dam for temperament, they cannot be doing a good job of breeding.

Temperament is largely genetic. Why are herding dogs different from sight hounds, different from scent hounds, etc. GENETICS!

Try training a dog that is hardwired for dog aggression to be dog friendly. A good trainer can get to hold back and tolerate other dogs, but the underlying aggression is still there.

Try training a well bred Labrador as a schutzhund. It's an uphill battle. Soft mouth, strong bite inhibition . . . a good trainer can make biting a game, but the dog's heart isn't into attacking. Or for that matter, try to teach a Labrador to herd sheep. Good luck!

Well said....... you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, you can modify and manage but you need the temperament what it should be for that breed, and a temperament that a particular owner finds hard to manage will be a burden for all the dog's life, including for the dog

I would be speaking to a few other breeders before buying a dog from the one saying genetics are minimal in his breeding program

I would avoid that breeder. If they do not select sire and dam for temperament, they cannot be doing a good job of breeding.

Temperament is largely genetic. Why are herding dogs different from sight hounds, different from scent hounds, etc. GENETICS!

Try training a dog that is hardwired for dog aggression to be dog friendly. A good trainer can get to hold back and tolerate other dogs, but the underlying aggression is still there.

Try training a well bred Labrador as a schutzhund. It's an uphill battle. Soft mouth, strong bite inhibition . . . a good trainer can make biting a game, but the dog's heart isn't into attacking. Or for that matter, try to teach a Labrador to herd sheep. Good luck!

Well said....... you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, you can modify and manage but you need the temperament what it should be for that breed, and a temperament that a particular owner finds hard to manage will be a burden for all the dog's life, including for the dog

I would be speaking to a few other breeders before buying a dog from the one saying genetics are minimal in his breeding program

Clearly something has already happened to get rid of illegal puppy farms because there are none left - even the terminology has changed from puppy farms to puppy factories.

I have heard that Wellington Shire (East Gippsland) says they have closed 14 puppy farms, there were big volume breeders down there, surely that would have an effect on statistics?

“No jurisdiction in the world has had the courage to set a low limit on the number of animals kept by breeders, so research into the link between animal numbers and welfare outcomes is limited,” Dr Walker said. (my words, limited is double speak for as she says up first, never been done so NO REASEARCH will they realise this means no one has a clue?)

“Setting a limit will allow us to start benchmarking welfare outcomes in Victoria.”

Well I did hear someone remark that it had to be 10 because after that they would run out of fingers...............

We definitely are :D

is it just me who thinks they held the inquiry to show they are prepared to listen to concerns. but that it was all just a public relations scam? to appease the masses so they hope wont get a backlash like baird did?

There are two "theys", the lower house has a govt majority so the Bill passed easily, the upper house does not have a majority, they have more greens, minor party and independent members and it is the upper house which is holding the inquiry.............the issue has become a political one............I don't believe this inquiry is "going through the motions", they are investigating flawed legislation based on incorrect premises in some aspects, and written without proper consultation of all affected

I was a bit disappointed in the Dogs Vic presentation based on the slides. Seemed lackluster.

The presentation had to be limited to time, a lengthy written submission was put in before the enquiry started and the important part will be the transcript when it comes online.............that is the main bit of an enquiry

Oh wow I didn't know that the minister could over rule the findings and go ahead with the legislation anyway.

that is scary.

--Lhok

She has apparently spoken of introducing an amended Bill next week, without waiting for the findings of the Inquiry, am told she can, but it will end up blocked in the Upper House where Labour does not have a majority

My partner and I arranged to buy a puppy (deposit paid). We were of the understanding that we would be taking him home at 8 weeks of age. Then the owners changed their mind and arranged with all the other buyers for puppies to be picked up at 6 weeks. We objected as we've read so much about it being a critical time for the puppy to learn social skills which we hoped he'd learn from his mother and other puppies. The owners then agreed to keep him until 8 weeks of age, but have again changed their mind and told us to pick him up this weekend at 6 weeks of age. They say he is fully weaned and the vet says it's okay (completely missing/ignoring our point about socialisation). They've advised they can't keep him any longer as they're going away. I'm annoyed and frustrated but feel it is in the puppy's best interest that we pick him up this weekend (and the puppy's best interest is my focus now) as I don't know that he'd be properly cared for if we now backed out of the purchase (and obviously, we are already attached to the idea of bringing this puppy home even if dates have now changed).

So, what I'm after now is advice on what I can do for this puppy to help compensate for being separated from his mother and litter early. I already know no puppy preschool in my area will take him before 8 weeks of age. I know some people with older dogs that are fully vaccinated and well cared for and am hoping my puppy can spend time with them. Can anyone advise when and how to do these introductions, and how much time he needs to spend with other dogs? I'm thinking maybe I should give him a few days or a week to adjust to a new home environment before putting him in the car and taking him to visit another dog in a different home environment. I would appreciate any thoughts on this, and especially advice from anyone else who's had a puppy come home younger than you would have liked.

Is this not against the law?

Personally I am disgusted with Vic Dogs lack of response when these Breeding Regulations were first discussed with the Dept Primary Industries back some 5 years ago. Vic Dogs seemed happy to accept the bill then which allowed for the 10 entire bitches as they felt this wouldnt affect most of their members - so they just rolled over and let the Government just push their bill thru... and then 2 years down the track more amendments made as well as control being handed over to the Department of Ag - who actually see having responsibility for dogs/cats as being a fly in their ointment as they are dealing with far more "important" farming welfare.

When this was first raised back in 2010 Vic Dogs (ANKC as well) should have started working to push our cause... to fight against the politics as well as starting to implement systems to regulate their own breeding members.

Welfare Groups / Individuals use social media to fuel outrage with the public for their cause. Just look at the often horrendous photos that are often posted of poor filthy puppies lost in dark sheds or livestock covered in blood and jammed into cages.

Governments traditionally respond to welfare groups who can drum up enough media drama by introducing legislation. Usually by engaging some public servants with little if any experience in the field who probably sit around a table, drinking latte, chatting to the welfare groups and coming up with what they think are some 'good ideas' and then write their draft.... which gets hacked around for a time and then handed over for a rubber stamp.

Well the rubber stamp has cometh..... Now ALL breeders have been lumped into the same basket as the puppy farmer and BYB....

Our biggest fear is that this legislation hands over the power for decisions to our local council bylaw officer... these public servants have no knowledge or understanding, all they do is tick the boxes without even having any opinions.... it doesn't matter what you think or say... if you don't tick their boxes they have the power to shut you down......

BEWARE THE PUBLIC SERVANT AT YOUR DOOR.....

Only a few months ago DV were sent forms by govt to renew AO status from early next year, never a word about what was in the pipeline, even when DV asked face to face was there anything else they should know.............DV were led to believe (and led up the garden path) that they would renew their AO status, albeit with more accountability (with which DV were happy to comply), a working party was set up by MC to prepare the application....

You can get a letter from your vet to say she can't be desexed yet because she is too small.

Vet's letter has to describe a medical condition now, so depends on who you see, no longer acceptable just to say because I don't believe in it, etc.....I know of a pet owner who was harassed by a ranger for months because they had a small dog their vet considered needed to be more mature before desexing

I'm seeing comments on my FB page that there is a problem with this petition and that it shouldn't be signed. Hopefully someone will come in and clarify.

It is thought this petition was got up by a couple of puppy farms and if you sign it you are supporting them. I suppose it depends on how it is presented. This morning I read it was a vet that got it started. Who would know. I *think* VicDogs wants their own petition running.

First is completely wrong, second on the right track...........don't believe all you hear!!

if the first is completely wrong then VicDOGs is in deep poo because that came from official sources

I might be an official source!!

I'm seeing comments on my FB page that there is a problem with this petition and that it shouldn't be signed. Hopefully someone will come in and clarify.

It is thought this petition was got up by a couple of puppy farms and if you sign it you are supporting them. I suppose it depends on how it is presented. This morning I read it was a vet that got it started. Who would know. I *think* VicDogs wants their own petition running.

First is completely wrong, second on the right track...........don't believe all you hear!!

I'm seeing comments on my FB page that there is a problem with this petition and that it shouldn't be signed. Hopefully someone will come in and clarify.

Can't say much, but go ahead and sign and send.....gee politics and smear campaigns are such fun!! Keep an eye on DV FB today (and every day!!)

Rural City of Wangaratta says:

Animal Business Registration

The Act requires that all Animal Business Premises must be registered annually. A domestic animal business is defined as:

an animal shelter

pet shops

enterprise that is run for profit which carries any of the following

Breeding of dogs or cats

The rearing, training or boarding of dogs and cats

I bolded the interesting bit

Might interest all to know that some councils have in recent years decided DV affiliated obedience clubs are DABs and have hounded for payment of $500 or so a year, one council backed down........Minister gave incorrect response to DV on issue and DV does not care about supporting their affiliate....maybe they will now they are in deep stuff!!

Thinking about heeling ???? Been slacking on it.

The current challenge for us :

1. Staying in heel after receiving a reward

2. Crabbing behind me

3. Crabbing in front of me!

No idea for 1 beyond repetition, but for 2 and 3 I will throw the reward out and to the side left. She likes to anticipate things so she drops back so head level reward but because going to the side it encourages the behind crabbing so sometimes I throw to the right in front of me. Balancing towards a happy straight medium!

What tweaks and tips and small adjustments does everyone else do?

Experience taught me teach it well in the first place..............most dogs seem to think it means walkies, we aren't teaching it as a position to maintain.......I often suggest changing the command and going back to square one

Thank you Scottsmum. We are very lucky to have such a wonderful photographer. Karen Edwards available to take photos at the RCV Herding Trial.

Here are a couple of piccies of Legend and Dance who both passed their Instinct Certificates and 2 x Herding Tests to gain their HT Titles last weekend :)

Youngest Rottweilers in Australia to achieve this title :)

Interesting - I just noticed the total different body appearance of your Rotties in the pics: tail is up!...all the BCs, Koolies, Kelpies show the typical stalking posture with the tail down when they work the sheep.

The ANY VICTORIAN part seems to be a direct signal that a Dogs Vic membership does not provide an exemption from having to register as a domestic animal business and all the stuff that goes with that like kennels, concrete, inspections by council officers, and forced desexing of dogs not sold to another business etc. Any comment or advice from Dogs Vic management on here would be appreciated!!

Check the DV Facebook page.........DV are meeting a govt person tomorrow