shepherds

Well although still very red and the third eye lid across part of his eye, it looks better this morning. Swelling is going down and not quite so weepy and gunky. Will talk to the vets again today - if it is an eye infection - how long for it to clear up? Am taking another day off work so I can keep bathing it regularly through out the day and will see how he goes with food today. He did eat last night and is getting plenty of fluids. And thanks Powerlegs, in the event the worst has to happen with X-ray, will do some foot stamping and insist on the bare minimum - a pre anaesthetic needle at the most. Our oldies are extra special and just a huge worry when vet stuff has to happen.

Thanks Dogmad.....that makes me feel a bit better - at least about his mouth. I've had other dogs with molars out and they have coped far better than this boy with the incisors . He will at least let me touch the side of his muzzle now which is better than Friday when he wouldn't let anyone near his mouth.

Hi take two...No they didn't suture it. I personally think the eye is infected as a result of whatever they did last Friday when cauterising the wart and not a separate issue as they said today. They are talking X-ray to see if there is any other problem that was missed when they removed the two incisors and why the jaw now appears to be sore and what is causing the eye issue if it hasnt improved by tomorrow and caused by a separate problem (tumor). I have taken photo but given how swollen the eye is it does not show up clearly how red the eye is and how far across the third eyelid is.. The cream given to him today is Tricin which I understand is antibacterial. I'm not happy and I think you could be right with that 2nd opinion .

Hi All Will try and make a long story short. Last Thursday my 12 year old boy was showing signs of discomfort when you went to touch his muzzle. Friday morning he would not pick up his ball and as that's never happened in 12 years, it was straight to the vets. He had to be anaesthetised so the vet could look and as a result two upper front incisors were removed. Given he was going to be put under, at the same time I asked them to remove a wart that was growing on his eyelid ( they cauterised it). He also suffers from severe arthritis and has the beginning stages of degenerative myelopathy and given his age the anaesthetic obviously knocked him around. Saturday he appeared very battered and bruised and he was given additional pain relief. Eye was a bit weepy and he spent a lot of the day sleeping but did eat. Yesterday the eye started looking quite inflamed, rang vet out of hours and they told me to bath it in warm water. By late last night the eye was really inflamed, third eyelid across to the iris, swollen and below the eye in the cheek/jowls swollen with fluid and green muck accumulating in the corner. During this period he would eat and take food from my hand. This morning straight back to the vets, he yelped when vet tried to open his jaw and is reluctant to take food from my hand. Vet tells me she doesn't think this is related to the wart being removed on Friday and this is now a separate issue. His temp was fine when checked today, but he does have enlarged lymph node under the jaw on the same side as the eye. Vet gave him a shot of antibiotics to back up the dose already being given in pill form, plus cream for his eye. Vet wants to see how he is tomorrow, then if no improvement knock him out again to X-ray. Given how much the last one knocked him around, I'm very reluctant to do this so soon after the last one.. Firstly, is anyone else as doubtful as me that this chain of events is not related? Anyone who has had their dogs teeth pulled, how long before they were happy to fully have their mouths handled and eat freely? And anyone who's dogs have had eye infections, what were the symptoms and was there swelling below in the cheeks and did it affect the jaw as well? I also asked if the X-ray became a necessity could I hold him instead of being subjected to yet another anaesthetic in less than a week. Was told its not possible when it comes to doing X-rays of the jaw/face, but he is old and I know he will do as I ask and it will be a lot less stressful on him, not to mention the safety with giving a relatively old large breed dog two anaesthetics in a week. Any advice/comments welcome.....I'm worried sick about my old boy. Normally he takes things in his stride with barely a backward glance, but it has scared me how much this has flattened him.

So sorry Sir WJ, maybe its just because while on one level you know and understand your heart and soul are still protecting you from the stress and shock of it all and in time as you heal they will be in your dreams.

Just hit the "reply" button inside the post that you want to quote from. You can delete any part of the post you don't want to quote or isn't relevant. Make sure that you type your response AFTER the [ / q u o t e ] which you will see is at the end of what the other person wrote. And yes - I agree with the how frightening the chemical overload we subject our dogs to is. Of course it has all been (initially at least) for good reason, with the right intentions. But now we need to look at things differently, and it is only now that some people are making changes, even though those changes have been being advocated by professionals and professional organisations (our own AVA included) for years. I don't use wormers, anti-flea chemicals, shampoos and so forth. I would never say "never" to them, but I like to keep them on the shelf until and unless I can recognise they should be used. ETA: Mind you, I'm not saying puppy vaccinations should be avoided. Just in my boy's instance, I am wondering if his body isn't allowing his puppy vaccine to settle down, or vice versa. Okay...hopefully 3rd times a charm with the quoting :) ..... Again I agree, I dont think puppy vaccinations should be avoided either, but done according to the specific dog's needs - which would mean titreing from a young age. Im also of the belief in an ideal world vets should be looking into administering doses on a weight basis and only one at a time (ie parvo on its own etc etc)... But I suspect for most people repeated trips to the vet for single dose vaccines wouldnt happen as that would take time and more money. I've also looked into the homeopathic nosodes etc which appear to have merit. I try and keep any chemical exposure to the dogs system to an absolute minimum (whether that be drugs or flea/worm treatments etc) - but given any acute or emergency situation I would be the first to accept standard line of care, then deal with the consequences after (ie potentially suppressed immune system) and work on restoring/repairing that. Its a balance between using common sense and blind faith in conventional western medicine Slightly OT, Not sure whether or not you have heard of Holistic Animal Medicines in WA - I have used a lot of their treatments with great results and they may be able to help your boy (can pm for more details if you would like :) ). http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/

[*]I'm also interested in another train of thought I've been toying with (but not sure if I'm on a feasible path with it). It relates to Mandela's seeming auto-immune issues. Could it be possible that his system NEVER dealt with the first puppy vaccine well? This is a question to me ..... I haven't managed to phrase it succinctly or clearly yet and haven't yet asked a Vet about it. But I wonder if the answer was "no", whether that would have any bearing on why his Parvo and Hepatitis antibody levels are so "VERY good" even after almost 4 years??? Is it something that is just parading around in his body after all this time, upsetting the balance of his system?? I'm quite prepared to be embarrassed for even thinking this, as I'm probably quite wrong in the possibility. I actually haven't been quite ready to verbalise the thought yet, hence my wordiness . Hi Erny........ I think I understand what you are saying - and to paraphrase (and please correct me if my understanding is wrong) - essentially you are asking if the puppy vaccination compromised his immune system and as his system couldnt deal with it he has ongoing health issues are as a result of that vaccination? Secondly, because his system is compromised, it cant deal with the vaccination, therefore he is still maintaining very good levels? If I've got that right - then I would agree with your thoughts. There are a number of well qualified Holistic Veterinarians following that line of thought, attributing a number of diseases to over vaccination of our animals. Two vets in particular from the USA Mr Robert Goldstein and Dr Martin Goldstein (brothers) have written numerous articles and separate books on the subject (The nature of animal healing and The Goldstein's Wellness and Longevity Program) - one is a little bit more extreme in their views than the other, but it is very hard to ignore their arguments. Likewise Dr Karen Becker from the States who has also done an interview with Dr Ronald Schultz. Here is the link to the interview series which you may find of interest. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/31/what-your-vet-didnt-tell-you-about-all-those-puppy-and-kitty-vaccines.aspx Cheers Then again I could be completely off track with what you are saying and the above is useless :laugh: PS - Wish I could figure out the quote thing - Sorry Erny it hasnt highlighted the first part as your initial comments.

Thats great Lab Rat, you will be happy with those results. How long ago did you last vaccinate and who did the vet use? Was it Vetpath in WA? Cheers

Hi shepherds, I think if you are in the south of the state, that Montrose Vets will do the Titre testing for about $70, I think :) ... This is second hand info from a conversation I had a few days ago... The number is 62723599... I actually couldnt see any info, in the Yellow pages about Montrose Veterinary clinic, so I looked up individual Vets in the Montrose area, and they all had the same phone number... Good luck :) ... Thanks for the info! Im up North unfortunately, but I can at least ring them and find out where its sent so cheers for that, then see if I can find a vet up North that will do it. I called into my regular vets today to get some drugs for my old boy and again asked them about it. They just dont seem to want to know about titre testing.

Hi - I've just had a quote from a vet for titre testing - fee quoted $260.00 for parvo and distemper only - using a company from Brisbane with a turnaround of 6 weeks!!!!!!! Has anyone in Tassie done titre testing - Im struggling to find a vet here who has even heard of, understands it and is prepared to do it. The fee quoted of $260 is not from my normal vet. Vetpath obviously seems much cheaper, can anyone access them??? Sometimes living on an island is very frustrating - seems to take forever for things to get down here

Thats awful and very creepy. Id be freaked, so you are doing a good job....and ditto to what everyone else has said, keep a very close eye on your dogs. The person sounds like they are very familiar with the layout of your place, to be able to do that so quickly and not be heard. You mentioned you have clients come and go all the time,Im just wondering if this person could be connected with that???

This. I would go to a vet experienced in taking hip xrays and get an experts opinion on them before doing anything else. The other thing to remember is you are talking about a living breathing creature and sometime sh!t happens for no good reason. This!!!!!! Cant stress this highly enough - get an opinion from someone qualified to provide an opinion with the relevant experience in GSD's. I have seen and heard of too many cases of vets telling owners their dogs have HD when they dont. Also as a matter of priority as others have recommended - get your brother to talk to the breeder directly themselves.

Best wishes to Murphy for a speedy and full recovery. Thankfully you were able to administer first aid and get him to the vet quickly - that's a huge head start in helping him get through this. My boy was bitten (and survived) 2 years ago and ever since I have been completely paranoid about snakes and have gone to extreme measures to keep the dog yard and house yard as clear, clean and snake unfriendly as possible. As Snake Catcher said, they will be out and about for a while yet so even though we've had a couple of cold nights down here, we still cant afford to become complacent.

I love what you are doing for your boy. Im in the same position myself and running out of options if things deteriorate from where my boy is currently at. He too has that will to do things and will never give in which in some ways makes life harder as he constantly gets his ambitions mixed up with his capabilities which leads to him aggravating things further which is not good if he is having a tough day. I had been able to keep things fairly stable for a while, but the deterioration over the past 2 months has been frightening and Im dreading winter and what that might do It is frightening when they go downhill so quickly. Coco was only diagnosed a month ago, and some days are better than others, but he's been much worse this week. Showdog does he try to lick off the arnica cream, and how often do you apply it? Its awful.... I have tried metacalm, carprofen and as a last ditch attempt have now included the Gabapentin. In addition to that he's also getting herbal mixture, Krill Oil and Vitamin E. All of that plus the Bowen seems to be keeping things manageable. My vet suggested if the current vet meds dont do the job we can look at switching (and suggested Onsior as the next weapon of choice)....but there would need to be another washout period and thats not pleasant at all. I might speak to them about the Tramal though. Good luck with your appt...will be interested to hear what is recommended.

OsoSwift..... please excuse dumb question - but for pred do you referring to prednisolone and which NSAID were you using? Thanks Sorry yes prednisolone and I tried Rimadyl and metacam. Even at the initial twice daily dose or Rimadyl it wasn't working. It is now 4 years down the tracka nd he recently had a blood profile done, Kidneys, liver all very healthy even though he is nearly 15 :) Thats great he is doing so well and you would be thrilled with blood profile results. Have you had to deal with any weight or appetite issues from being on the pred? NO weight issues as I keep him lean to help his back, appetite - well we say if you stood still long enough he would eat you, so yes he has always been a good eater but now we have to be very careful and you can't give hime treats directly unless they are big as you may lose your fingers. His vision is also going so that doesn't help his aim. HE will eat anthing that may have touched food so you can't accidentaly drop any sort of food wrappers, or kitchen towel that has had food draining on it or he will try and eat it. Yes the pred is a kicker on the appetite and makes life very hard when its so important to keep their weight down with these type of issues. I fully understand your comment about him eating anything that has touched food. I lost my heart dog and I blame the use of pred at the time for that exact reason.

I love what you are doing for your boy. Im in the same position myself and running out of options if things deteriorate from where my boy is currently at. He too has that will to do things and will never give in which in some ways makes life harder as he constantly gets his ambitions mixed up with his capabilities which leads to him aggravating things further which is not good if he is having a tough day. I had been able to keep things fairly stable for a while, but the deterioration over the past 2 months has been frightening and Im dreading winter and what that might do

Can vouch for Bowen Therapy For a hands on therapy that is very gentle on the animal you can achieve significant results. Yes - I do believe I'm seeing significant results and some of those are quite immediate. Only had two treatments so far but the results appeared evident even from the first session. I'm also hoping the Bowen will help with Mandela's digestive system and his well-being in general. That would be an excellent bonus spin-off. Next visit, I'm gonna have it done to me too :D. Funny how alot of us get our dogs treated before looking after ourselves ;) You will love it and also find it very beneficial. I have noticed though, generally dogs bodies seem to respond alot quicker than our old tired human bodies, seems our bodies take a while to catch up :laugh: And yep, I think it will help Mandela in that regard too. Enjoy your combined session

OsoSwift..... please excuse dumb question - but for pred do you referring to prednisolone and which NSAID were you using? Thanks Sorry yes prednisolone and I tried Rimadyl and metacam. Even at the initial twice daily dose or Rimadyl it wasn't working. It is now 4 years down the tracka nd he recently had a blood profile done, Kidneys, liver all very healthy even though he is nearly 15 :) Thats great he is doing so well and you would be thrilled with blood profile results. Have you had to deal with any weight or appetite issues from being on the pred?

Can vouch for Bowen Therapy For a hands on therapy that is very gentle on the animal you can achieve significant results.

OsoSwift..... please excuse dumb question - but for pred do you referring to prednisolone and which NSAID were you using? Thanks

Hi All Can anyone please recommend a great behaviourist based in Hobart. Cheers

Thanks... I do the same (weigh and monitor everything that goes in their gobs).... I have one older dog with health issues who badly needs condition and the coconut oil hasnt made any difference to him and a youngster (8 months) who is maintaining condition very easily and I have cut his food back but he is getting loose in ligamentation - and I cant figure out if its an age thing or the coconut oil....and loose ligamentation is the last thing I want....... Just curious to know why you think the coconut oil could be responsible for loose ligamentation...surely it is only one small part of his diet, could it be something else you are feeding him, given that he is only 8 months old. What is his main diet?? Coconut oil is a low calorie oil & can reduce weight in some dogs or put it on in others...I think it has to do with how their thyroid is functioning. Im not sure that the coconut oil is responsible - but he has got a bit loose which could be due to his age and growth. Im a BH feeder and coconut oil is the only change I've made to their diet and its intersting watching the difference between the two dogs - one is putting on condition and the other isnt since adding it and I was just curious as to whether anyone else had noticed any changes in their dogs condition. Cheers I've noticed a HUGE difference in their coat condition & poos are still nice & firm & only two a day (I have mine on BH as well). I keep a good eye on their weight, but havn't had a chance to take them to the vets for a weigh-in since being on the oil. They don't appear to have had any weight change. Energy levels are great. I doubt (maybe wrong) if it could cause loose ligamentation, more likely to be the fact that your pup is growing....what has the vet said about it. Is your breed prone to it?? I dont think the coconut oil is responsible for the loose ligamentatiion as such - but one dog is putting on weight since adding it, whereas the other one isnt. Plus I have read conflicting reports on weight and coconut oil so I was just curious/interested as to whether any other Doler's had noticed any weight changes in their dogs. Cheers

Agree every dog is an individual and has their own specific needs. I started using coconut oil only after research and lengthy discussion with people qualified to provide an opinion in this area and whose advice over the years I have come to trust and respect. Shortly after I had introduced it to my lot this thread started on DOL and I have followed it with interest as to what has been the experience for others. My dogs are not and have never been home based lab rats.......and I think for the most part anyone who takes their pets health seriously would do their own homework before doing anything....just because..........

Thanks... I do the same (weigh and monitor everything that goes in their gobs).... I have one older dog with health issues who badly needs condition and the coconut oil hasnt made any difference to him and a youngster (8 months) who is maintaining condition very easily and I have cut his food back but he is getting loose in ligamentation - and I cant figure out if its an age thing or the coconut oil....and loose ligamentation is the last thing I want....... Just curious to know why you think the coconut oil could be responsible for loose ligamentation...surely it is only one small part of his diet, could it be something else you are feeding him, given that he is only 8 months old. What is his main diet?? Coconut oil is a low calorie oil & can reduce weight in some dogs or put it on in others...I think it has to do with how their thyroid is functioning. Im not sure that the coconut oil is responsible - but he has got a bit loose which could be due to his age and growth. Im a BH feeder and coconut oil is the only change I've made to their diet and its intersting watching the difference between the two dogs - one is putting on condition and the other isnt since adding it and I was just curious as to whether anyone else had noticed any changes in their dogs condition. Cheers