Wundahoo

Just a thought but what if a breeder suddenly dies and doesn't have family who can cope with breeding dogs/cats- would other breeders step in to help ?

Yes, this has happened twice in my experience.

The first time, the owner was a breed Club member and had many friends in the breed.... it was easy work.

The second time was quite confronting. The owner was not a breed Club member nor an exhibitor and had been a thorn in the side of many reputable breeders for a very long time. However when the owner died suddenly and the relatives couldnt cope with the dogs, the Club members rallied to help, for the sake of the dogs involved. There were many dogs, around 26, and most were poorly socialised. Some had major medical issues and the conditions in which they had been living were not good. We managed to house all the dogs in one of our member's kennels and over a period of 5 months all were health checked, sterilised, heartworm tested, socialised, lead trained and rehomed successfully.

You need to contact the breeder and tell them of the problem. Keep it nice and dont make them feel as though you are blaming them. HD is considered to be polygenic and multifactorial so it isnt wholey and soley a problem of genetics.

If the diagnosis is adequate ie radiographs are of sufficient quality and have been reported by someone who is known to be experienced, then you may have grounds for some compensation.

The accuracy of the diagnosis needs to be established in the first instance and then you can take things from there.

While your dog is very young and is too young to be officially scored it isnt too young for a diagnosis to be made. Sometimes it's very obvious from radiographs of young dogs that all the growing in the world will not fix the hips. It really depends on how bad they truly are.

When speaking with the breeder, the best results for you will be obtained if you are not portioning blame but simply and politely state facts. Present the evidence that you have and allow the breeder to seek a second opinion if they wish. Give the breeder and the vet that made the diagnosis permission to speak with each other about the case. Dont make any threats or argue. Keep it sweet and simple.

If the breeder is reputable and reasonable they will show concern and will want to get to the bottom of the issue, particularly from the point of view of a planned and continuing breeding programme. This just might be the spoke in the wheel that they will not want ! They may be as disappointed as you, perhaps even more so.

I rescue dogs of my breed. Having said that, I dont take every one that comes to my attention. I am selective about which dogs come into my care.

I find it upsetting that I HAVE to turn some away but I MUST be practical about it and not let my heart rule my head. Unfortunately there are some that do not fall within the category of "suitable" and so I will not assist in their rehoming. That is left up to the owners or the organisation that has the dog in their possession.

I have one dog here at the moment that was surrendered to me by the owners because he digs HUGE holes in their lawn and garden. He is a very sweet dog and gets along with anyone he has met, both 4 legged and two.

He has been here for over 3 months while I assess him and then teach him to accept being crated at night, because that is mainly when he digs or gets into other mischief.

I have had to microchip him, have him vaccinated, wormed and flea treated and treat his ear infection. I am the one that is paying for all of his medical costs and his upkeep, not his ex-owners, who said that they would contribute to his upkeep while he was here...... yeah, sure...... not a word from them since I picked him up. I am left to pay his upkeep and to rehome him, and of course if he doesnt work out in that home I will also be expected to take him back and find somewhere else for him.

I did not breed this dog but I have become 100% responsible for him. Is this fair ???? I dont think so, but I have decided to do this and when I agreed to take him onto rescue I knew that this would probably be the very familiar pattern of promises from surrendeering owners who quickly disappear after their "problem" has been taken away.

In the same time frame I have also been asked to take on several other dogs (neither of which I bred) but I declined on the grounds that both of these dogs have shown signs of aggression. One has already bitten a child and the other has attacked but not made physical contact. Both of these dogs have major resource guarding issues.

The dog that has bitten a child was not originally from this state but was placed in the home by an eastern states rescue group who were aware of this dog's resource guarding issues when they placed it. Now that its behaviour has escalated to the point that it has bitten, they are very reluctant to take the dog back and do what needs to be done !! I was then contacted because I run rescue for my breed in this state. I refused to accept the dog and voiced the opinion that I believed that this dog was not safe and should be returned to the original rescue group that placed the dog in the first instance. Another local rescue group has taken the dog and is apparently looking for a home for him. He has been advertised on their facebook page as a "sweet boy" !!! My prediction is that he WILL bite again and his behaviour will escalate further.

I am firmly of the belief that this dog should NOT be rehomed but it seems that in spite of it having bitten and also showing other aggressive behaviours, there are some who believe that it should be rehomed yet again.

For some reason these rescue groups now feel that I am not truly committed to rescue because of my refusal to "help" this dog !!!

There are some that simply are NOT suitable to be rehomed and I fail to see why I should be responsible for them, simply because I happen to be someone directly involved in the breed !

I will help a dog if it is temperamentally safe. I will pay for its medical needs and will rehabilitate it IF the dog is one that does not pose a risk to the safety of the community.

I will not be made to feel that I am responsible for the care and up keep of every single dog of my breed. If I run breed rescue in this state I should be able to run it in a fashion that means I can devote the time and care to those dogs which are suitable.

I should not have to run this group as others external to it want it to be run !

My time, resources and funds are limited and as such can only help a certain number. Taking on and placing a dog of dubious or known bad temperament is irresponsible and unfair on all concerned, the dog included, yet there are those who feel that I SHOULD do this.

Edit for S & G.

My dogs get three puppy vaccinations using C3, then one C3 12 months after the last puppy vaccination. After that, they are only revaccinated if their titre test result indicates that their immunity levels have fallen below, or close to below, protective minimum.

I do not see the virtue or benefit in vaccinating for canine cough. In almost all cases it is a mild, self limiting illness that generally leaves no lasting effects.

The issues surrounding yearly vaccinations for anything are, in my opinion, too risky to warrant vaccinating for an illness such as canine cough. It's akin to vaccinating yearly for the common cold in humans.

I have always pointed out that Limit Register is not a contraceptive !!!

Many people seemed somehow to believe that because a dog was registered with Limit paper it automatically meant that it couldnt be bred from...... as Steve has pointed out all this has done is to prevent the pups from being registered within the ANKC system.

ANKC breeders who use the Limit register for their puppies need to be aware that there are now alternative registries which will register litters from dogs that have ANKC Limit register papers, in spite of the clear indication from the breeder of these Limit register dogs that they are not to be used for breeding.

It appears that these alternative registries are prepared to go against the wisdom of those breeders who place their puppies on Limit register and will register litters that are produced from two parents which have Limit papers.

Those who work within the Veterinary industry are very aware of the stats and it isnt only vets who are affected by the stresses of the job.

Veterinary nurses and veterinary technicians are also a part of the scenario.

In W.A. there are systems in place to tackle the problem and as has been reported this has had a dramatic effect on lowering the suicide rate within the industry.

Help is easy to obtain and the issue of depression is de-stigmatised.... those who seek help are welcomed warmly and immediate assistance, day or night is available through the mentoring scheme for new veterinary graduates or through other support systems set up via the AVA W.A branch or the Veterinary Nurses Council.

It will be a dreadful pity if this current scheme cannot continue due to a cut in Government funding.

This system truly is worthy of the top level support and if implemented on a national scale could make an enormous difference to very many people.

It's been a huge success in suicide prevention within the industry in W.A. and surely this must be a model for the wider use of the plan and greater support from the government, rather than forcing the scheme to become self funded.

Last year Paul Davey was awarded the Order of Australia Medal, one of Australia's highest awards, for his work with this scheme which, since its inception, has reduced to zero the number of new grarduates who have taken their own life.

Brian McErlean is a retired veterinarian who is now working hard to develop a system similar to the hugely succesful New Graduate programme in order to help others within the industry.

These two dedicated men have raised the focus of the problem to an open level where it is easy for help to be obtained.

The results within the industry in W.A. have been nothing short of amazing.

I agree that crating her is a good idea but you can also apply Aerogard roll on to the places that she is chewing. Dogs hate the taste and also the smell. Once they have learned that it tastes terrible simply the smell of it is enough to keep them away from the general area.

I have travelled extensively with my cockers (in full coat) around Australia by car and believe me they found some dreadfully PONGY things to roll in along the way !!! Travelling for hours and hours with stinky dogs in the car was definitely not something that I could tolerate !!

A really good, long soaking and sudsy bath is the best method but if this isnt possible then try this one ......Firstly remove as much of the offending solid material that might be adhered to the coat.... baby wipes are great for this, then spray the area lightly with water. Sprinkle liberally with bicarb, rub in well with a paper towel. Brush vigorously. Spray again lightly with water then apply potato flour. Repeat the paper towel and brush. Spray again with water then liberally cover area with Johnsons baby powder, rub it well into the area and then brush.

Repeat the cycle several times and things should be sparkley pretty quickly.

The bicarb helps to neutralise much of the PONG, the potato flour is great for drying and whitening so that the next stage can work better. The JBP is great for getting rid of any remaining odour (it's originally designed for babies bottoms !!) and it also helps to whiten a little.

It used to be common having a choice between papered and non papered I think before limited register evolved where non papered pups were cheaper. If the breeders are over 50 odd years old, they may be a bit old school perhaps, or the sire or dam maybe on limited reg and they can't register the litter anyway telling you some BS to justify it?

Where was this?

Could happen in WA. Not all pups registered. Rules have now been changed, all pups must be registered.

Not in Qld. All pups must be registered ; this has been the rule for decades.

Not sure about other states; think it is so in Vic and NSW

OP - run as fast as you can. Without registration, the pup could be anything, and if the breeder wont register, they are dodgy. And report them to the VCA

Well done for going elsewhere

It's been a requirement in W.A. for quite a few years that all litters and all pups in a litter must be registered, however it isnt required that registration papers are signed over to new owners. Regulations require that the purchaser's receipt must indicate whether or not the pup is sold with or without papers and if sold "with papers" must state Main or Limit.

Many breeders here use this as a tool to weed out BYB's who are looking to breed from a Limit registered puppy sold as a pet. I use a number of things including the retaining of any pedigree and breeding information until such time as I receive a certified copy of the sterilisation certificate that includes the dog's microchip number. Potential purchasers are told prior to purchase and agree to this in writing at the time of purchase.

In whichever state the OP's problem has happened it really doesnt sound at all like a cautious breeder trying to sus out a potential BYB and sounds very much like a BYB that is trying to pretend that they are legit.

You are right to run far away and very fast !!

Might not technically be in the COE, but it is against the spirit of the COE. Also fringes on "breeding to improve the breed"

If you don't like the rules, don't join or remain a member, it's voluntary.

I think that the rules need to be changed. If enough people voice an opinion then it is possible for this to happen.

Some years ago, I had an issue with another rule within the C of E and put pressure on sufficient people for the matter to be taken to ANKC and there was a change made. Of course it didnt make a difference to the problem that I had at the time but at least it (hopefully) prevented it from happening again and allowed the controlling bodies to make a case against anyone who breached that rule in the future.

One lone voice of protest often doent make them listen but if enough members put a reasoned case forward it can change things.

Not always an easy task but one that is possible.

Yep, I can attest to this ! Under the current C of E all that a stud dog owner is obliged to do is to ensure that the bitch presented for mating is on Main Register.

Even if the person who presents the bitch is not the registered owner and even if the registered owner has said that the mating CANNOT take place, in the terms of the C of E, the owner of the stud dog is not guilty of any breach !!

This has happened to a bitch which I bred and which lived with another person. She was still in my name, which is not a breach of our regs and is common practice here. When I heard about what had been planned I contacted the owner of the stud dog and said that the mating should not take place. Unfortunately it did, in spite of my protests. Even worse was that at her next season the bitch was again presented to the same stud dog owner and was mated yet again. I had sent the owner of the stud dog a written statement saying that the mating was not to take place but it happened anyway. The owner of the stud dog told me that she had not done anything wrong because she had checked to make sure that the bitch was on main register before she did the mating. The person that presented the bitch for mating paid the stud fee and this is all that the owner of the dog was interested in...... ka-ching $$$$$. Well known breeder too !

Obviously there is a huge divide between compliance with the C of E and compliance with certain moral standards.

I agree that it sounds like it could be ascites. He may have cushings or a cardiac problem, but if you say that he is not showing any other signs of being unwell then it's unlikely to be heart related as to produce so much fluid he would probably be showing other signs of cardiac insufficiency such as exercise intolerace and coughing.

My bet will be that he has cushings disease.

There is also the possibility that it could be enlarged organs caused by liver failure or tumour.

In any case this is a dog that is probably quite unwell but is not letting you know.

Many dogs can hide the signs of severe illness until things are fairly advanced.

A trip to the vet should tell you what the problem is.

If this person has advertised on Gumtree as a registered breeder and has asked more than $500 for the puppy then Gumtree will take action to remove the adverts and caution the advertiser. Of course they need to have this brought to their attention so you will have to report the advert to them.

At least Gumtree have a set of advertising rules pertaining to the age at which pups may be sold and require those who claim to be registered breeders to state the association with which they are registered.

It's unfortunate that there are still so many shonky people around who will try to decieve others into thinking that they are legitimate but you have done well to ask questions and not to be taken in by her talk.

I hope that you find a wonderful pup that will give you all the fun and love that you deserve.

Special Lady.

You know there are no words.

And you know how I feel.

They are waiting, but it will be long time before you meet again. They are patient.

You have your Rainbow Bridge to remind you of their patience.

Keep a very close eye on her.

If she continues to drink a lot over the next couple of hours then take her to a vet as soon as possible. Excessive thirst coupled with dark coloured urine can be a sign of serious problems. Some of these conditions can become apparent very quickly and can need urgent attention.

Schnauzers are predisposed to several conditions that can cause these signs so if you are concerned it's best to get her checked ASAP.

If your dog is getting repeated yeast in fections try giving a couple of ml of Braggs Apple Cider vinegar in the food. This takes about 4-6 weeks to work but it will change the ph of the dogs skin so that the yeast doesnt like it. I use it to prevent reoccurrence of yeast infections and with one dog that I know always seems to get yeasty ears in warm humid weather I start on Bragg's around September and continue through till March.

It seems to help quite a bit.

Have posted this in "News" but feel that more people can be reached in "General".

Please be careful if you are walking your dogs in Rushton Park Kelmscott.

There have been 3 dogs die from suspected 1080 poisoning.

The Council has confirmed that they do not lay 1080 baits in the area.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/23127340/poison-warning-after-perth-dog-deaths/

Rushton Park is a popular spot for people with dogs...... anyone who takes their dogs there please be careful. Advice has been given to stay away or to keep dogs on lead at all times.

The Council has stated that they do not use 1080.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/23127340/poison-warning-after-perth-dog-deaths/

I'm also a bit shocked at the experiences others have had with cockers...I've never met a nasty one to be honest. All the ones who come to get groomed are so placid and lovely, and we used to live next door to one who was with a family of kids ranging from 1-16. That door never barked, and was such an awesome and gentle playmate for the kids. I have however heard of a workmates mothers (confusing anyone yet?) dog, from a registered breeder breeding for a certain colour, who had severe epilepsy. This turned her off the breed but she has since got a dog from Macdolly who is just gorgeous, and very healthy at that. I know another from that kennel currently being shown in neauter and starting agility, she is a lovely dog too. Sorry for the spiel, but I think if raised right they can be beautiful, easy-going dogs that can be great with children (I say easy-going comparing to my 3 mad dogs :laugh: )

Research done at the University of Barcelona has not helped the Cocker's reputation . . .looks like there have been other studies of the same.

http://www.journalve...e/S1558-7878(08)00140-8/abstract.

Aggressive behavior in the English cocker spaniel

• Marta Amat, DVM, Dip. ECVBM-CA,
• Xavier Manteca, DVM, MSc, PhD, Dip. ECVBM-CA,
• Valentina M. Mariotti, DVM, Msc,
• José Luís Ruiz de la Torre, DVM, PhD,
• Jaume Fatjó, DVM, PhD, Dip. ECVBM-CA

School of Veterinary Medicine, Universitat Autónoma de Barcelona, Bellaterra (Cerdanyola del Vallés), Spain

• Abstract
• Full Text
• PDF
• Images
• References

Abstract

A high percentage of aggression problems and a tendency to display noninhibited aggression in the English cocker spaniel (ECS) have been suggested by many authors. The authors of this paper designed a retrospective study to analyze the aggressive behavior of 145 ECSs presented for aggression problems to the Animal Behavior Service at the Barcelona School of Veterinary Medicine's veterinary teaching hospital. Aggressive ECSs were compared with a population of dogs of the same breed presented for a behavior problem other than aggression and with a population of aggressive dogs of other breeds. The most common forms of aggression in the ECS were owner-directed aggression (67.6%), aggression toward unfamiliar people (18.4%), aggression toward unfamiliar dogs (10.1%), and aggression toward family dogs (3.3%).Owner-directed aggression was more common in the ECS than in other breeds, although in similar contexts. In the ECS, the golden coat color was more common in the aggressive dogs than in nonaggressive dogs. ECSs showed impulsive aggression more frequently than aggressive dogs of other breeds. The aim of the study was to analyze cases of aggressive ECSs seen in a referral practice.

Sandgrubber your link doesnt work,,,,,, but I do know the paper and it's been around for a while. It actually hit the press under the heading of "the Worlds nastiest dog breed" or something to that effect..... typical of the press and their journalistic hype.

As a scientist, Sandgrubber, I expect that you would know that there are limitations and faults in every research report. This one has several, but of course the main one is that the study was conducted over a small area of Spain and many of the dogs were closely related to each other or came from the same human families. This paper has not attempted to analyse the family relationships ie the pegigrees of the dogs involved nor are they clear about the basic facts of the dogs in the study, originating from a small regional area. It's unfortunate that this piece of information has been excluded form the report. They do note that the majority of cockers with aggression were golden in colour. World-wide this is the colour most frequently bred by puppy farmers and BYB's and sold in retail outlets as it is the colour most in demand from the pet buyer.

I think that the important thing is to remember that temperament in a breed is often different from place to place, region to region and country to country and is often influenced by regional breeding programmes.

Many years ago there was a temperament problem in cockers in the UK. This was dubbed "Rage Syndrome" and there was a lot of research into the problem. UK breeders worked very hard to eliminate this problem and it has largely disappeared from the breed in that country. However, it seems that any cranky cocker spaniel that has a less than desirable temperament is now said to have rage syndrome, simply because people have heard the term used.

Around the time that this isse was first noted in UK there were many cockers exported from UK all over the world and there has been high percentage sent to Spain where they were bred from extensively. The breed is immensley popular in Spain and of course this means that there is also a lot of indiscriminant breeding by those who simply want to supply the pet market.... buyer beware !

Australian breeders have worked really hard to ensure that the temperament of the cockers produced from kennels that are seriously involved in the breed are as the breed standard requires.... and the majority are sweet, gentle, happy and trustworthy.

Perhaps things might be different in the breed in Spain and so I dont think that such a paper as this should be used to colour the opinions of people who are considering a cocker in Australia !

Many years ago, and long before your time in the breed Sandgrubber, there was a line of Labradors in Western Australia that were known to produce less than desirable temperament. The people who bred these dogs were either oblivious to the problems being encountered by the owners or just didnt care and they continued to chug out litter after litter of labs that were dubious in behaviour. The breed began to develop a poor reputation here and its popularity declined among the pet buyers. It made it difficult for those who were doing the right thing and I'm sure that if there was an internet and forums in those days the issues would have been debated heavily and many people would have had their horror stories of yellow labs with bad temperament !!! Thankfully, the kennels concerned are no longer breeding and the labs in this stae have a reputation for sweet and gentle natures..... as they should.

Purebred dogs have been actively selected for certain behavioural traits - on the whole humans haven't been.

Dogs also dont have the same cognitive thought abilities that humans have. I dont believe that you can consider temperament which is in my opinion 100% nature to behaviour which you can alter.

The ease in which a dog can be trained is born in them. .

This is the inherent difference between a breeder and someone who just breeds dogs - the ability to produce an animal which can be predictable in its base instincts, characteristics and management - generation after generation. The ability to be able to place puppies in homes which consistently suit a family's needs and lifestyle.

Sorry for cutting so much of your post Steve but these are the salient points that I feel are really well put.

Although certain behaviours can be modified, suppressed, magnified or moulded.... the basic temperament is there, rock solid from the day the pup was born into this world.

Breeders need to pay very careful note to the basic building blocks that make the dog a suitable animal for the intended purpose, be that flock guardian, guard dog, lap dog, hunter, retriever, family companion. A good breeder recognises the desirable basic temperament and works hard to maintain and magnify this.

Nurture adds the finish to the product, Nature is the foundation. Start with a shaky foundation and it's really hard to get a smooth finish.

Tee-ter (as in litre)is the generally accepted English pronunciation.

Tie-ter (as in mitre)is the US way.

Dont think that it matters really..... doesnt change the cost or the results !!

If ownership is disputed it sounds like a nice little money earner for a couple of lawyers !

I may be a bit bias, but cavaliers would be perfect :D

Mine are very active dogs.

Super friendly, happy, and easy to train.

Two of mine come hiking, (the other is a recent rescue and is very overweight, so he doesnt accompany us yet), do agility, i want to start my tri in flyball, and my ruby LOVES swimming in dams. They could run all day.

Yet, wont destroy your entire house if left without a walk for a couple of days.

They are not generally nuisance barkers. Mine only bark at the postman, and sometimes my ruby does when he gets excited.

They are supposedly horrid shedders, but i dont notice it too much. All my cats are worse!

Just a brush every couple of days and they're fine.

They are very good with children, and not as fragile as they would appear.

But of course with any dog and overly excited children things could happen.

I work at a doggy daycare, and 90% of the cockers get snappy.

Which may not be a good trait with children?

but this could also probably be managed with training.

They also seem very timid and withdrawn with strangers, and often just go and sit in a corner.

ETA: never met an american cocker, the above is in regards to english cockers :)

Whoa, Denali !!! Do you know where all these snappy and timid cockers have come from ??????

The breed is not meant to be that way and the majority of cockers that come from registered, responsible cocker breeders are happy, people and child friendly dogs. There are way too many cockers sold through pet shops and BYB's and most of these are not from good stock.

I would also suggest that if you are seeing these dogs at doggy day care, they are probably not getting much input from their owners.... at least they are being sent somewhere that they might get some socialisation, but it sounds as though it's way too late.

I will not send my puppies to homes where there is not someone around for a large part of the day as the breed needs company and good quality training/supervision while growing. Sourced from an experienced and responsible breeder a cocker is a wonderful family companion and is robust, sturdy and active and social with kids and other dogs.

As to a cocker as a first time show dog, it's imperative that a breed mentor is by your side to teach you the requirements of trimming and grooming.

Many people think that there is more work in an American Cocker's coat than in an English, but truth be known there is far more in the way of scissoring, shaping, sculpturing and hand stripping to get an English Cocker ring ready than an American.

I think that all three breeds will be suited to your needs as long as your puppy comes from an experienced, registered and responsible breeder who health checks their stock. Your decision might be tempered by the amount of coat work needed to prepare the two cocker breeds for the ring. Cavaliers are easy as long as they have the required amount of furnishings. They are a strictly non-trim breed for the showring and will be heavily penalised if there is any signs of scissor work on the dog. Both cocker breeds on the other hand need a lot of work. The Americans require some hand stripping but mostly, lots of brushing and development of the length of the coat. English cockers should be prepared by hand stripping and careful scissoring although there are some who resort to clippering and a lot of scissoring to get the outline. Personally I hate the overt clippering that has crept into the the breed in some quarters.

Pens are great too. Every house should have one and it's especially important to train the children to be comfortable in one.

Yes, so handy. I used to sit in the playpen to do my fair isle knitting with 8 balls of wool while toddlers happily ran around the room laughing at mummy in the pen.

Seriously though the biggest problem with crates is idiots who can't be bothered or think its really ok to leave them there for hours on end.

Animals young & old need to move whether to develop strong muscles & bones or to keep their old ones going. They can't if they are confined in crates for hours on end. Mentally crushing too.

I agree with you Christina. If crates or pens are to be used it must be in the right fashion, but that goes for just about any training or management method.

Simply leaving a dog or puppy in the back yard, free range all day, every day, with no interaction or attention is wrong. It can and often does produce an awful lot of problems. Crating in the house for overly extended periods is just as wrong and brings with it its own set of issues, however used correctly, crating or penning is a wonderful and very beneficial management tool that has long term positive effects both psychologically and health-wise. It will produce dogs and owners that are calm and settled and makes down-time and sleep management so much easier for growing puppies.

I recommend their use to families with young children so that the puppy can get the uninterupted sleep that is so necessary for healthy growth. Very often the kids are the main reason for a puppy not being able to sleep as it should. To teach a young child that puppy is in bed and needs to rest is an easier thing if a crate is used, rather than putting the puppy into another room where it may not settle due to separation issues or simply expecting it to be able to rest with a young child buzzing around it.

My own house dogs are always crated or penned of a night and will also accept the same during the day if it is necessary. They are fit and well and are very vigorous dogs when not confined but are also accepting of their confinement because it is well managed and they regard the system positively.

Rebanne......... :laugh: quality sleep for owners is such an important thing too...... gone are the mornings when I wake up feeling sore and stiff because I have had a couple of dogs hogging the bed.

It's interesting to hear the varying opinions that people have about the use of crates.

Many years ago I didnt like to see dogs in crates and I had been known to refer to them as "cocky cages" !!!

How the wheel has turned...... now with more knowledge and understanding of the principles and practice of using denning down instincts as a training tool I use pens and crates very frequently.

Used correctly, I believe pens and crates are a humane and instinct-satisfying tool which allows dogs to be relaxed and safe when not able to be closely supervised.

I have cockers which LOVE to chew and this is not a trait that goes well with the custom made marri dining suite or the jarrah furniture made by my late cabinet maker father.

All the dogs are crated at night so that I know the furniture is safe. They are very happy to go to bed in their crates or pens and seek them out when they think it's bed time or simply when they want to rest away from the general noise of the house during the day.

I begin crate training when they are little pups and it's a natural thing for them which is accepted well. There is no fuss or feeling of punishment or separation. They are never confined for longer than a few hours without being let out for a short walk and stretch of the legs. I get up during the night to let them out and return them to their crates a little while later.

Any dog in my car is always crated and the crate is secured so that in the event of a collision or accident the crate doesnt become a missile. Again, this is a safety issue. So many dogs in car accidents are injured by air bag deployment or simply by being thrown around because they have not been secured somehow. Secured crates are one of the safest ways to transport any dog.

I currently have a rescue dog here that was surrendered by its owner because it dug up the yard at night. It was not allowed into the house at night and so it had free and unsupervised access to the back garden. The poor dog had spent several months on a short chain each night, until finally the owner decided to surrender it. I discussed the option with them and suggested that perhaps crating the dog in the garage at night might be a better option all round than chaining. The owner was horrified and told me that he thought it was terribley cruel to suggest putting the dog into a CAGE !!! I suggested that it was probably even more so to tether dog by its neck on a short chain outside every night. The dog is now with me and is being crate trained..... something that he has accepted very well (as he gets to sleep inside) and has curbed his digging to almost nil. The crate will go with him to his new home !!