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Tonymc

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Everything posted by Tonymc

  1. Midol,wild dogs do function as a pack.Have a look at the question Nekhbet ask's.Nekhbet asks about the Hunting patterns of Wild dogs and whether they throw themselves randomly at prey or go about it in a calculated and organised way?They go about it as a pack in an organised and skillful manner as sucess on the hunt means survival for the pack. Quote from Dogs rock. Theories are great, but it is important to remember that they can be correct, incorrect OR partially correct (thus making them theories and not proven fact). I think there is a big difference between the 'world is flat' people and the 'dogs have a hierarchy' people - the 'world is flat' people had only ever seen a flat world (they were the non-explorers who never saw any evidence to prove otherwise), whereas the 'dogs have a hierarchy' people see evidence to support their belief every single day. Exactly,I could not agree more!!!!! Tony
  2. Quickasyoucan he did state his views on pure breeds and the problems with limiting gene pools. From what I gathered during his seminar, he encourges cross-breeding mainly because he believes it strengthens genes and removes much of the health problems associated with pure breeds these days. Ray believes we are breeding our dogs to "death". By this I believe he means that most breeders limit gene pools and do not allow cross breeding. Cross breeding introduces stronger genes and produces dogs who are almost rid of many of their genetic health and breed problems. He most certainly has very strong feelings about dog breeds today and the mess we humans are creating. He believes that AKC breed standards are so far removed from the original purpose of the dog and I really don't think he is alone in his thinking here. I found his insight into kennel clubs very interesting as well as humorous! I agree 1000% with the above!!!He is spot on!!!!!I can recall the Grandfather, years ago saying the exact same thing!!! Some breeders certainly do need a good hard kick up the rear end to turn the ego off and hopefully kick start some reality and commonsense. Tony
  3. I do not see alot new in the article. I do not see the pack structure going out the window at all as to me it is very relevant. We all know Dogs are opportunists.Yes some dogs became scavengers,simply due to food sources being availible around Villages and so forth.For the Dogs it was an opportunity.In scavenging situations, dogs do not need to function as a well oiled pack to actually get the food source.So yes in scavenging, dogs may not exibit much pack behaviour at all. I do not believe conserving energy has much to do with it at all.Yes Hunting do's require effort and useage of energy.Dog's being opportunists though of course will see them eat an easy kill, if they come across it at dumps tips so on.Its the opportunity. Take the above situation where Dogs are scavenging and change their enviroment and what happens?By change I mean this.We could take an area that has established scavenging points for Wild Dogs.Now if we completely clean up any food sources in the area,what will these dogs do?They will simply go back to hunting live kills.We have removed the free ride and they will go back to hunting.Dogs as a whole have not lost the ability to hunt.Once these dogs switched back to Hunting mode,then we would of course see the emergence again of strong pack behaviour. Some dogs of course due to modern day breeding would be very ineffective hunters and in any pack would be lower ranked for sure. Sadly some modern day breeding practises have toyed with and messed with prey drive in certain breeds.Start messing with drive and one of the end results is unstable dogs. The Article said, our dogs still exibit motor skills associated with Hunting and yes thats simply Prey Drive.I have seen many times Dogs say in a country Town, form packs and go hunting local Sheep Calves and so on.These were local domestic dogs that had been allowed to roam and mismanaged.Many times the number of Sheep killed was quite high and a much higher number than needed to feed the pack.The Dogs in this situation were not killing to survive but were satisfying age old instinct's and or drive.This is an example of what the article says.Why did these dogs not eat all they killed?They had no need to as they were being fed at Home and this situation was not about survival, but expressing instinct or drive.The situation would be vastly different if these dogs were not being fed at home at all.Then the number of animals killed would be far less and kill would be eaten. Tony
  4. This topic is seen very clearly in the Wild dogs.A lower ranking dog may sight or hear a threat or percieved threat to the pack.The lower ranking dog will raise the alarm which of course alerts pack leader.The pack leader sizes up the potential threat and he decides what course of action is taken such as fight or flight. Thats how it should be in our situation with our dogs.Ours at Home will raise the alarm but then I have the say as to whether any action is taken or not. Tony
  5. how long has he been doing it for?Have you had a look at your leadership? Tony
  6. Managing a problem means that the problem behaviour is still there.Rather than manage,I much prefer to deal with the real issue and eliminate the problem. Tony
  7. Fuzzy, the future depends on several factors such as your awareness and management,the dogs level of drive and an outlet for drive. Tony
  8. Vickie, some think a dogs motive for doing things is to please the owner.Inorder to do that firstly the dog wouldf have to know what please's the Human involved.That takes a Human intellect. For example one day at home we had a visitor who was a believer that Dogs do what they do inorder to please the owner. I asked this Person to explain their logic or reasoning.In this case their logic was if the owner and dog are both present or together the dog will automatically do something to please the Owner, while the owner is present.So that was the logic given to me in this example. So I said to this Person that in their rationale the Owner has to be present and the Dog will do something to please the owner.The answer was yes. So I walked over and let a Dog out,then left the Dog to it and took the Visitor inside for a while. After sometime, we came back up and here was the dog holding a small mob of Sheep near the Yards.The Visitor was rather surprised!!!The visitor said"Gee your were not even there and the dog did something to please you!!!! The real truth was the Dog went around and brought the Sheep up due to Prey drive.Letting drive flow and release was what pleased the Dog, not pleasing me. Tony
  9. In my travels,I of course run into many fallacy's,half truths,mistruths and so on.I am sure we all do. Nowdays, less and less People are working with dogs or work dogs as part of their livelyhood.I see as many others do that some owners are out of touch with the true essence of what a dog is and how a dog is.Not seeing a dog as he really is,of course leads to things such as mismanagement,unrealistic expectations,behavioural problems and so on. The other day,I had a discussion with a fellow.This person had their dog with them and I had not met this Person prior to this.I had the old AB with me.This fellow had some little type of dog and was throwing a small ball for it.The little dog was slowly but surely fectching the ball and bringing it back to him.Because I was close, this fellow obviosuly thought my focus was on his dog.I can read People pretty quickly and this bloke was pretty full of himself.This bloke says to me"Pretty impressive hey!!!"I said" Sorry Mate but pretty basic!!!" Anyway, this Bloke feeling that he was losing ground in the self importance stakes,tried to go up a notch by asking me "Well why do's my Dog fetch the ball?I said,Mate its simply prey drive.The answer from him was with a laugh"Your so wrong!!!!I then said, well seeing you are a wealth of knowledge please enlighten me!!!!This Bloke then proceeds to tell me that the Dog do's it because the dog knows it please's him!!!{Nothing to do with drive at all lol} Soon as I got the answer that it was all about pleasing the owner,I thought oh one of these types!!! How many times have we all heard that?My dog do's it because he or she know it please's me?Too many. It certainly do's not help dogs that many many times somebody hears a statement,view or perception and blindly accepts it to be truth without questioning it and researching the relevance, validity or truth. We all know a dog will continue to do something if it has a payoff and or feels good and will discontinue something if there is no payoff and or it feels bad.One Human can do something to please another of course and we have all done that.Firstly though we have to have the awareness or knowledge of what actually please's the other person.How do we gain the awareness of what please's the other person?We do so by the other person telling us,by a third party telling us or by us watching the other person.Inorder for us to do this and be aware of what please's the other person it take's a Human intellect. Its pretty obvious that a Dog do's not pocess a Human intellect. The old "My dog do's it to please me fallacy" Tony
  10. Ruthless, it could be a few factors at work here. Factors may be lack of exposure when younger,leadership,age and genetics. It always pay's to get an outside opinion of our leadership, as self analysis at times is not very objective. The age of this dog seems to be a bit of guesswork?I would have a read through K9,s Pup development calendar.I would study and ascertain whether the dog in in a fear period. Yes could be weak nerves from a genetic basis. How do's this Dog react when with somebody else other than yourself? Tony
  11. Hello Vickie, long time no talk.Hope all is well down your way.Great topic you brought up. but...I always wonder why destructive behaviour/s that any breed can & do exhibit are often automatically labelled as a need to fulfill a herding drive/instinct if the dog happens to be a working breed. Vickie, in many case's yes the above is adopted as the probable cause.I found in a lot of case's the above answer was something Joe Bloggs threw in because he did not really know!!!Many times its the quick fix answer for those who do not know.You,your Grandfather and I all know that not every problem one may encounter with a working dog is related to the dogs breed specific drive or task.For example a Kelpie can have problems totally unrelated to sheep work. Vickie, yes the point you make about there being a difference between a working dog and working bred is sadly true.There are Bench Kelpies I would not feed and I have seen some disasterous BCs.Sadly at times working breeds have suffered Human Ego and the Cuteness factor.People in some case's from Town with no understanding or knowledge of a working Breed see a member of that Breed and due to where they as Humans are coming from judge the Dog rather superficially on things like color and "Cuteness"No knowledge or awareness is raised about Breed habits,drive and so on.So they buy one of these "Cute Dogs" and a recipe for disaster unfolds!!!!Get enough of these types buying on "cuteness " alone and many dogs end up affected and we end up with the sad spectacle where we have Working breeds ending being slit into lines that will work and lines that are useless or very very ineffective.How is this brought about?Well it happens due to people buying the working breed and never working him or her.The only way to ascertain properly what level of drive a working dog has is to work him.Those in the Know always bred those with good drive to those with good drive.This ensured that a good level of drive was maintained in the breed which allowed the breed to maintain their drive and ability to do the job. These People though never testing for drive end up breeding for superficial factors such as color, always end up sooner or later breeding low drive dogs to low drive dogs.Keep this up and we have Dogs no longer have the strong instinct to carry out the job.Then we end up with as said above working lines and non working lines.To me its a disgrace to have dogs that are incapable of working within working breeds. Every situation whether it be with a Horse,Dog or Human has to be looked at on an individual basis.Many situations may have many commonalities but at the same times have many differences.So it has to be an individual asessment based soley on the evidence,behaviour,genetics and Human input of when dealing with a dog. Rommi, you have made a few generalisations in your post.Generalisations never work.You mention about somebody having trouble with their BC for example.If I was asked to look at a troublesome BC I would go their with no predujice or assumption prior to seeing the Dog.The Dog may have unrelated problems but he also may have a big problem with no outlet to release and express drive.I would let the dog show me where he or she is coming from.Also if a BC or so on goes to a Farm to live he or she is not going to be allowed to behave as you described. Yes I have seen working Dog's who were stuck in Surburbia with no outlet for drive and these dogs had become obsessive and or neurotic.Prey drive is like a flowing river.Stick the dog where he has no release or outlet for drive and we have dammed the river.So what happens?The Water{Drive} builds up and builds up as it can no longer take its natural course.Pressure builds and builds till the mass of water is too much.When this happens the water bursts through and takes a new course!!!!This is what happens for example with some of these Dogs that become obsessive Bird chaser's and so on. Dogs that ring nearly always go back to very poor training and gudance or lack of buy the Human.As Kids the Grandfather,Uncles who were drovers would have kicked my rear end if I let a Dog get into the habit of ringing.From a Dogs point of view though he does not know it is not constructive behaviour, we have to show him a better way. Some dogs that may be rough on Sheep can be put on Cattle and handy dogs made of them. Tony
  12. Snowboyz, how long have you had these dogs for? Tony
  13. Jigsaw, has hit the nail on the head.Prey drive. Tony
  14. Lead is better and its up to us to educate the dog not to pull. Tony
  15. shmoo,hit the nail on the head Emma.Emma we can all make suggestions on this forum but nothing will benefit you greater than consultations for you and your dog with Steve. Tony
  16. Corvus, sorry but your post has many holes.using the logic you imply in your post,I will not use any aversive to stop my dogs crossing a busy road, but will simply manage the resulting mess. Tony
  17. Headcollars ar something I would never use on a dog.They might be useful perhaps to throw at the crows. The headcollars for dog's is a process repeated in many areas of life, not just the dog world.I have seen the same process carried out in horses,agriculture, business and so on.What process is that?Maybe its better stating it as lack of process.People see somebodyelse using something and blindly accept that its the way to go.Because Fred down the Street is using a Headcollar, it must be the way to go,thinks Bill.Bill never questions is this approach specie's appropriate?Bill due to lack of indepth knowledge never recognises the discomfort his dog is displaying when wearing the Headcollar. The whole headcollar thing has its origins in somebody seeing a Horse being controlled by a Headcollar.The illogical lightbulb went on in their Head, "We could use the same thing on Dogs" and further still " we can market this and make some money" No thought was given that a Horse is a prey animal and responds as such and that a Dog is a predator and responds as such.No thought was given that a Dog thinks,behaves,responds and see's the world totally differently to a Horse.No thought was given to the physical differences between the two Animals. A good comparision would be me taking this course of action.We all know Camels are controlled by a nosepeg.The nosepeg has proven to be effective,sustainable and suitable for the Camel.So along I come and think,Horses are directed and controlled by a bit and why not do the same to a Camel.I will get a bit made up and then market it as a new U-Beaut revolutionary tool!!!! So I totally disregard when trying a bit on a Camel that the Animal protests and is in discomfort.I totally disregard the physical difference between a Horse and a Camel.I then invent my marketing propaganda and away I go.I pick my mark initially by targeting Camel owner's who are of average knowledge and that combined with my spiel, see's my new tool hit the Market.People start seeing Joe Blogs using my tool on his Camel.Joe blogs either is unaware the tool is not appropriate for his Camel or doe's not want to admit he is wrong.So others see him using my Tool and they buy one,never questioning whether it is the right way to go or even applicable at all!!!! Tony
  18. Botheration, if your unsure of reading the behaviour correctly then have an experienced person have a look for you.Then you will know if there is a problem or not. Tony
  19. Lyndsay, not wierd behaviour at all.Pretty normal dog behaviour in the circumstances. People alot of the time seem to think Prey drive is only the act of running or grasping a Prey object.Prey drive is more complex and much more multi-dimensional than that. Dogs are predators and thus have instinctive skill's to assist and ensure their survival.Dogs can only be dogs and can only think,react and respond like dogs, even though in a surburban enviroment where their pack may be made of both dogs and Humans.No matter how many Humans in the dogs pack,the dog brings with him or her, many instincts and ways of behaviour. Dogs as part of Prey Drive have a highly developed Skill to pick a Prey target that gives them a higher chance of sucess when hunting.This of course is all about survival.A Dog in the Wild will recognise an animal that is ill,old,injured and so forth.How?Because the selection of a prey Animal is usually carried out at a distance, the selection factors are sight and scent.A dog can pick the slightest distortion of movement.For example a sick prey animal will move differently to a healthy one.The dogs picks up on the jerky and abnormal movement of the sick or injured prey animal. We may have domesticated dogs, but thanfully they have retained their instincts which they bring to the relationship with Humans. In many ways you have answered your own questions.Your Neighbour for example was intoxicated and therefore acting and moving differently and the dog easily picked up on it.Also it seems by your post that your Neighbour was sticking her head in the dog's face.Many dogs read somebody sticking their head in their face as a threat. Have your Neighbour come over when she is not drunk and sit near the dog,not sticking her in the dog's and not carrying on with the silly baby talk and take note of the difference in the Dog's behaviour. The above process of spotting an animal that is different as a prey target, also works as a means of dogs spotting what they may see a potential threat or danger. The other possible factor of course is leadership.Some dogs given poor leadership will feel they have to take leadership and this of course includes protecting the pack. Tony
  20. In the real world,I am not a fan of the purely positive crowd.One only has to look to nature for the answer.Watch the behaviour in a pack of wild dogs, interacting with each other.Dogs in a pack do not conduct themselves on a purely positive manner. Tony
  21. I would also as well as following Erny's suggestions,check the dogs eyesight. Tony
  22. Herding has always just been a part of everyday life for us.All us kids were herding and mustering stock from a very early age.The Family is full of Drovers,Breeders,Cattlemen so there was always People around that were real handy with a dog. Tony
  23. We are supposed to be the smarter specie's and its up to us to utilise good management. Tony
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