asal

ha now I understand. Totally forgot about that Puppy complaint as it was dropped the second he heard I had thrown in the towel and dispersed my dogs after the "dogs in boxes" complaint. The visit just completed was a follow up of the "boxes" complaint. Pure bad luck that one I suspect, how a vet can decide fluid on or in the brain is inherited yet not occur until the puppy is some 6 or 7 months old is beyond me. the perfect age for lapping the house or anywhere else and running into things occasioning concussion and such. Managed a beauty myself last year, not recommended at all. maybe we are going to learn you cant get concussion unless your parents have a faulty brain one day? so far as I know concussion is cause by the brain being bruised by rapid deceleration of the skull when it hits something, like a solid object for example and since most of it is fluid the impact of the brain with the skull is the problem? Sorry I am just so worried, I am working hard to stay calm and fix any possible imperfection that might be found. In the case of my horse I want the farrier here yesterday so he cant be seized and fixed by them and whatever other costs added like they did with stringy. It only cost me $48 for my vet to diagnose the blue gene alopecia. It cost me $500 for the RSPCA to confirm my vet was telling the truth.

Do you realise that seems as if you wonder if that lady many not have healthy animals either? As I recall not one person who knew this lady believed she was in any way deserving of the nightmare she was dragged through. Will you never believe anyone until the day arrives where you "actually know someone who has well looked after healthy animals who have had the RSPCA called in on them." Is that what is called apathy, untill its your butt in the fire?

why are u using the plural sense? how can you use that term when the first instance I refer to occured 12 years ago and this one just occurred recently? I understand my crime was I parked my station waggon (the back was up and all the windows open because the dogs were in the vehicle) at a fast food outlet and another customer took down my number plate because they believed the three carry cages were boxes. The description the Special Constable read to me said I "had them stuffed into boxes and it appeared they lived permantly in them in the back of the vehicle"? as for the horse I gather you are also unaware that once a complaint has been lodged the special constable then by law has full access to inspect every living creature on the premises for any possible breeche's of care. They do not have to be vets, they do not have to have any completed animal husbandary degrees, they only need to be "enrolled, in an animal care course." Perhaps your tone is unintentioned, you say you have never met anyone with healthy animals had a complaint made against them? Am I or anyone reading that to assume you just may suspect mine were not healthy or I would not have a legal carry crate described as a box ? To both myself and the Special Constable who came as a result of the call and saw for herself what 'boxes' were in the vehicle, came to the conclusion that the 'concerned caller' had no idea that it is illegal to transport a dog or dogs loose in a moving vehicle or have the faintest idea what a legal carry crate is or looks like. So you see there is no friend or neighbour involved. I have not had a Special Constable arrive after a complaint in the last 13 years,(the previous one was 2000 or is two in 13 years constitute me being classed as a repeat offender? I perceive this incident as the day has arrived, if you have more than one dog with you whenever or wherever you go now, you will attract the attention of anyone who watches the programs calling for the public to be on the lookout for collectors, BYB and puppy farmers. I am not afraid of this Special Constable, I actually admire her, she was incredibly nice to a very agitated old duck. Trouble is I am only too aware that all it will take is one to decide to use the power that I learned exists and what it will mean financially, even worse if anthing could be found to charge me, it isnt the fine that will send you bankrupt if a guilty verdict is made, it is the court costs awarded to their legal teams that can amount to hundreds of thousands when they choose to do so.

unfortunately a breed standard is open to interpretation. so yours is right and anyone elses is wrong. bit like how many religions are based on the old testament alone? lot of differing interpretations there too

I do not know the lady in Victoria. It is not just people I know who have learned what I am trying to tell the sceptical. There is a problem. There is an organization in this country with immense powers yet there is absolutely nothing in place in this country to appeal too, either before or after the fact, which you will finally learn once the target is YOU. You have NO avenue of appeal, their employees are totally unaccountable to any law agency in the land. A corrupt police officer can be reported, they can be investigated even be filmed, taped, charged and prosecuted as the ACCC have shown, but there is no such accountabality for any whatsoever in the RSPCA. It is not of my imagination. I wish it was.

Oops Yes I had an Inspector arrive as stated recently due to the "stuffed in boxes" complaint. Since this year to my knowledge is 2012 I think? that means its been 12 years I have lived in fear of the next visit when it comes and what may happen this time. The complaint was about the dogs in boxes. Now although no complaint has been received about my horse his feet are considered cause for concern. Do I fear if I dont have his hooves cut away until all chips are removed and the offending split gone? Before a special constable can walk though our gate at any time I sure do. Because unlike you I KNOW (I learned the hard way, first hand experiance). that once an inspector "forms the opinion" he be seized they can not only take whatever said opinion has been formed about but charge me every single cent for every single test or work it is decided to perform. As marion then a year later I, discovered its not enough to have clean food and water available or no conditions requiring immediate veterinary care as listed in to so oft quoted "Animal Welfare Code of Practice,, Breeding dogs and cats" we found that out prior to 2000. Except most inspectors dont invoke the "forms the opinion" and seize. Too many people finding that out would make joe public realise just how powerful they really are. So it only happens when as in Marions case she offended the specal constable. or in my case as the letter I have from the Minister of Agriculture explained the special constable was sent to find a conviction that day. How many times have I read people fuming over starving animals but the poor special constables "hands are tied" they have fresh water and food can be seen so they can do nothing, the laws need to be changed..... how often have we heard that and how many new ones have slid through parliment since. Look at the poor woman in Victoria whose debarked dog enabled the RSPCA to seize all her debarked dogs and charge her 77 counts for the 77 times she had shown them, because their new law now makes it a chargeable offence to show a Victorian dog if it was debarked in another state. Each charge carried a one year term in jail. Although as the RSPCA at the time explained,"our hands are tied, we must prosecute" its the law you cannot show a Victorian born dog that belongs to a Victorian owner if it has been debarked in another state, we have to prosecute, so a 60 plus pensioner was facing a possible sentance of 77 years jail. Fortunately the presiding magistrate discovered his hands were not tied by the same law and I understand dismissed the case. She was incredibly lucky. Unfortuatley her dog wasn't, the vet who reported her after examining it for a checkup for its new owner, told the new owner the dog was not properly socialised as it did not like the vet and was euthanised, it was an ex show dog, , the breed standard actually does say the breed is suspicious of strangers, in that dogs case, suspicion proved fatal. Mind you you can show that same dog if it had been debarked in Victoria or debarked even by the very same RSPCA . OR if you are a resident of any other state and your dog is debarked in your own state you can still go to a Victorian show and show your dog and it is not breaking the law? go figure. anyone know where to find that thread?

I am not being 'targeted' as you assume. I do talk about he who must not be named. thats all. To admit you have been visited is seen to admit you deserved it. The culture is only bad people are, so to do so is to "have deserved it" like the "uncovered meat" as that darling muslim cleric described women who do no wear hajib. My dog Stringy was taken in 1999 or was it 2000 anyway yes I talk about it, why should I be ashamed? It only cost me $500 in unnecessay (in the minister's and the RSPCA's opinion it was for my dogs benefit he endured 21 needle insertions as my vets diagnos of blue gene allopecia was now officially verified, I was not charged for any offences and now my dog has had a complete workup. how dare I feel anythig but gratitude. My friend Marion Alcorn had ten of 17 her pure arabians, removed without her consent the same day the inspector arrived after receiving a call about their condition. Yes they were thin, they had been removed from a severly drought affected property, when the inspector arrived they all had ample feed available for every one of them, all troughs were full of fresh clean water (how do I know? I helped her fill them all and carry out the feed, I knew and handled every one of them) and she was not given even a day to rectify anything, The foolish woman told the inspector to get off her property thinking 30 years of breeding champion horses gave her the knowledge to care for them. She was given a choice, pay $7,000 in costs to get them back or sign them over to the RSPCA, the one condition she put was they be promised good homes, I was with her every minute of that day including the negotions and signing and witness to the verbal promise. Four days later I was also witness to the now CEO walk into the sale ring at McGraths Hill saleyards and advise the auctioneer that "no one but the doggers are to bid on these horses". I will not crawl into a hole and let no on be aware of the immense power this organisation already had in 1998 and 2000 knowing they are constantly working unceasingly to increase that power through legislation. what was that saying? ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ said by: Edmund Burke Trouble is our population has been trained to belive that no good people attract the attention of the RSPCA so nothing I or marion ever say will be believed, its the same mentally as the "uncovered meat" very effective in shaming into silence, I'm tired of being afraid

Just had a phone call from a friend who called to ask me what I think of the information in the last Canine journal. She said that its been passed that in future there will be a levy on every purebred pup registered which will then be forwarded to the RSPCA. That being a member also means you agree to RSPCA inspection at any time? My membership is still current but I cant remember where I put the latest journal so cant check for myself. Is this correct?

thankyou for taking the time to explain so easily to understand. my learning was with horses and very diffent wording

As I understand it, once a RSPCA Inspector has been sworn in as a Special Constable. A Special Constable does not need to be a vet or any other such degree. All a Special Constable needs is to "form the opinion" an animal should be seized and taken to the RSPCA premises for veterinary appraisal. Once this has been done and the Form of Seizure filled out, and the animal seized and removed, every thing else done after having "formed the opinion" is legal, be it any and all testing done which is fully billable to the owner regardless. All tests are billable even if none of the tests decided on or the original seizing condition, are not listed anywhere in the "Animal Welfare Code of Practice,, Breeding dongs and cats" This is what I was advised by the then Minister for Agriculture at the time of Stringys seizure and when I asked how can this be legal if none of the conditions listed as the reason for seizure or testing was in breech of said "Animal Welfare Code of Practice,, Breeding dongs and cats" remember the reason I was given was this was covered by the fact that all the inspector needed to seize is they "form the opinion" the animals best interests would be best served, etc. He also assured me I had nothing to fear now or in the future as long as I conformed to said "Animal Welfare Code of Practice,, Breeding dongs and cats" I can only conclude he meant that I had nothing to fear in the way of prosecution? Certainly I can still have my animal seized and will be billed for all testing or treatment if a Special Constable does decide to "form the opinion" the animals best interests would be best served etc. Should we as pet/livestock owners instead need to think of these powers as a safety net that Special Constables are there to decide for us that tests need to be done and joyous at the propect of paying bills I never asked for or that my own vet cant do without my consent on the grounds that our and/or my animals health and safety is of far more concern to the RSPCA than its owner or vet ? I was born of a generation that thought our pets were our responsiblity and our vets were who we trusted to care for them? the more I read that Dept of Agriculture letter the more I realised a pet/livestock owner somehow slides into a new category and it scares me

dont worry, it means "a limit register" not unlimited. way back when there was two kinds of puppy sold. Pet, ie all you got was a hand written or typed copy of the puppies parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. Then there Main Registered, the form of Registration for that puppy with its registered name and breeding from the what was then in NSW the RNSWKC now Dogs NSW or whatevr relevant state. without which the dog could not be shown or bred from if you wanted to be able to register the puppies for show and breeding. now days the registering bodies make breeders register every puppy but those sold as pets get an official orange coloured form in the same set out as the offical BLUE one they must have if they are to be shown or bred from. is that any clearer? I hope so

Im only half serious honest injun

and for gods sake dont say you didnt choose him without complete genetic testing of him and her. all xrays done etc. these days choosing a sire because you like him, is parents or his pups, you may as well tie the noose and jump rather than post here

thanks for the explaination. to me chocolate acts a a dilute hence me using that word. same reason I visualise blue as a dilute. in so much that neither can express unless its in double dose what neither can do is express as either chocolate or blue on a non black based dog in any form other than the nose and eye rims. yet on a black based dog the coat will be either blue or chocolate or as stated in conjunction together turn a black based to lilac or what ever word is applicable to the different breeds. as well in the case of a non black based dog the nose and eye rims still show the same nose and eye rim colour seen in the black based dog, only the dd bb cannot influence the coat colour, except in the case of those which also carry the black ticking on the end hairs that is the Sable description. in which case the black ticking is changed to either chocolate ticking, blue ticking or lilac ticking. as well in those with the inheritance of the black mask on and otherwhise red based dog the mask will show the presence being instead chocolate, blue or lilac the way words are used to describe these two genes can be incredibly confusing,, there really needs to be some form of conformity doesnt there.

the dogs for conformity to the code of practice. since the copy I have only talks about dogs and cats. I havent a code of practice for horses any one know if its the rules that horses have to never have chipped or any visable split or splits in their feet? or I gather proof I have a farrier regularly to trim them. I cant recall one ever giving me a recept? scarey isnt it

trouble is an unfortunately large percentage of people tend to be judge jury and executioner with no interest in the how or why. apparently if you are 'ethical' such things dont happen. soo if it does then case closed. I noticed how fast someone got the chop when someone decided the op was not a registered breeder, even though the op said both were registered? although where registered wasnt said. someone just today said their dogs are only registered in the working breeds not the KC and they havent been delete yet so im not sure if the rules are you can only be a member if its an AKC breeder. which the working kelpies and borders are not, weird isnt it, the real working dogs cant be shown, they have to be bench dogs n dont need to be able to do the job they were originaly evolved for?

Wei colour is dilute brown, called fawn in Kelpies and lilac in Border Collies. Dilute black is blue in most breeds but in some it is called slate. Dilute Border Collies do not suffer dilution alopecia, except occasionally on the ear tips as puppies, so are perfectly normal healthy dogs. so what IS the DILUTE acting on the brown? from my knowledge of chi's chocolate is a dilute completly seperate to the actual body colour. so on a sable or red dog its only action is to change the nose and the eye rims from black to chocolate but on a black based dog diluted to chocolate. Blue is a completely seperate dilute with no relation to chocolate. so if you put a double dilute chocolate to a double dilutue blue. since none of the puppies will receive two copies of either dilute. none will display either chocolate or blue. all will have black eye rims n nose if a sable or red or black or black and tan. But if a dog inherits TWO chocolate dilute genes and TWO blue dilute genes, then you get what is called in cats Lilac. what it is called in dogs does not seem to be agreed on. my vet calls it taupe? to me it looks like a silver cat although sun bleaches it so the coat tends to take on a reddish hue after a while. personally i suspect the 'dilute' you are referring to acting on the chocolate of the Weimariner is the blue dilution, although you do not name it. Is that so?

The RSPCA lady came out this week and checked them everyone of the few I still have left passed inspection. although now she is comming back to check that Ive had the farrier out to trim my old horses feet. I am still getting my head around chips on the side of his feet is cause for concern? I know in my head she really is a genuinely nice person and only has their welfare at heart, but knowing what her masters can do to destroy us financially if concern turns to anything considered chargable just utterly freaks me out. trying very hard to stay calm, but every time I look at his feet, seeing they are perfectly normal horses feet, not long, not deformed no founder but chips have to be removed and a small crack was found, another cause for concern? how can u prevent chips and cracks in this dry weather? if his feet are cut back to remove them he will be walking on the soles of his hooves? As he is I can go for a ride with my friends and he is sound as a bell. He wont be if he has to be walking only on the soles of his feet. Maybe even keeping him is unsafe? She was very puzzled about my reaction she cant seem to understand I know (just google, let alone the people I know who are hermits now after falling foul of past 'inspectors') that people in the past have had legal bill claims against them in the hundreds of thousands even when the magistrate come down with a token fine . I know of cases where people lose their homes to the legal teams "costs charges" alone. She did have in interesting perspective on Marions horses being sent only for the doggers to purchase. "perhaps the RSPCA vet after inspecting them had found they needed to be put down". I wonder is there any way through the freedom of information act to find out why "no one but the doggers were allowed to bid" on them that day? I still have nightmares of standing helplessly that day watching them being kocked down to die, three mares with their unweaned foals, one weaned orphan filly and the three yearling colts. the Crenel colt was superb. they were all pure arabians and I knew every one of them, catch lead and load on a float no trouble. I just cant see how a RSPCA vet could say they needed to die only 4 days after Marion was promised "they would find them good homes" they looked perfectly normal that day at the sales and none of them appeared sick or lame?

As usual too many assumptions over not only the ethics of whoever bred the pup at the pet shop or that the actual breeder even knows their pup has ended up there. Steve has some really good reasons, I know ive had the thought myself since all real witch hunt hate is now so obvious. and it takes nothing to get you black listed either. my name went down the gurgler some time ago when one of the ultra loud mouthed ethicals found a puppy in a pet shop at mittagong complete with registration papers. by the time I found out it was sold, but by checking my records and the registered name was its pet name as well, learned that its buyer had been unable to keep it due to some sort of family breakup and instead of calling me, another famly member took it to the pet shop. my reputation became mud with that creature and thus began the sequence of events that eventually led to stringys ordeal. (to then discover the real power 'so few here belive they have' our government has given this charity) Hey a found a photo of string I didnt realise I still have Snowy is a white/chocolate, hence the chocolate nose. Stringy is blue fawn, Dancer is gold and white. .

a friend had a working sheepdog and she had two genes for blue and two for chocolate. the resulting colour was the same as the weimariner? is that their genetic base colour? I will ask him if he has any photos of her. sadly some sick motorist ran off the road and killed her while she was keeping the flock off the road, you cant fathom the minds of some people there were out there to graze the grass along the side of the road as it was during the drought. She had been moving them along as they ate it down every day so both the sheep and her knew the drill. a neighbour saw it so it wasnt as if she was near the road nor were the sheep.

I gather your dog is blue? its proper title according to my vet is Blue Gene Alopecia. Bought a really pretty silver blue long coat chihuahua pup decades ago and when he dropped his puppy coat his adult coat was the only long coat that came back was the bottom half of his tail his legs, halfway up his sides and under his throat. the entire top of him from muzzle tip to tail was covered only in very short soft cotton wool like 'stuff'. that was about 36 years ago, since then ive seen every variation in between the weirdest thing is in the chi's any way it only seems to be really noticable on the longcoats. although over the years ive noticed it only occurs in one in four blue pups, so would tend to think an additional gene is responsible, yet although i never used any blues that were affected. Stringy who did have it along the top of this tail, rump, and to his shoulders making him look like a 1.2 kg lion. Snowy (White, chocolate, although that only shows in the chocolate nose) Stringy (Blue fawn) Dancer (gold and white) got into mischief with lace and their two blue and tan and blue cream boys had coats to the ground by the time they were 4? so its a darned lottery although my vet said he has seen so badly affected blue dobermans and staffies both being smoothcoats. yet ive never seen a smoothcoat chi with differnt length or overly short coats, very odd nor have any of mine that did have it develop any skin dryness , bit oily compared to the rest of the skin and in really hot weather could look a bit scurfy which i put down to the shorter coat the skin could sunburn easier so kept them out of the sun with shadcloth n problem solved being a recessive blue can pop up in the most unexpected places. look at the border collie 200 years of killed pups if one turned up other than black and white and finally now all those amazing colours hiding in the population are being allowed to live and what stunners they are

Gee I think it took some explaining at the hospital the night I pitched head first through the spokes of a sulky because darling Indi had decided to wrap himself around my ankles

Yes thanks Saf I remember in the 50's when a GSD actually looked like a white swiss as it is now used to produce the occasional white puppys. I thought they were the most beautiful pups in the litter and always intended to get one when i grew up. But sad to say the new u beaut spine curving like a downward banana, buts so low almost scraping their bum on the ground became the "in . must have" I just couldnt stand it so never got one. now there is these who still love the old type AND the awesome white....win win lucky some faught to save them

the comment certainly made me wonder, chi's and many of the small breeds often only have single pups

according to those in the media "the management will not be held responsible for any resemblance to the truth in the quest to deliver a good story" or words to that effect