asal

They can tell a dogs external heath - glowing coat, good muscle tone and fitness, clear and bright eyes, happy in itself etc. They can assess a dogs basic mental health - happy to be there, bright, aware, comfortable in what it is doing. They can assess a dogs structural health - how it meets the structural standard for the breed, how the dogs structure supports or hinders its ability to do its job, how the dog moves, that it is happy and comfortable moving at a pace and in a style suitable for the breed. They can NOT assess long term genetic or internal health or look into a crystal ball and see how the dog will be health-wise tomorrow or a year from now. But that is not the role of a dog show judge. A judge is there to judge TO THE STANDARD. The standard does not address health isses beyond the types of things I have listed above which can be assessed EXTERNALLY on the dog in front of the judge. Any further assessment of health is carried out by the breeder, sometimes under the auspices of official and formal schemes run by the ANKC, breed club or other organisations and sometimes not. Assessment in accordance with the standard by a show judge is just part of it and never ever have dog shows set themselves up to be a one stop shop assessment of all elements of the 'health' of a dog :thumbsup: "Assessment in accordance with the standard by a show judge is just part of it and never ever have dog shows set themselves up to be a one stop shop assessment of all elements of the 'health' of a dog" I remember being told something along those lines once, when i queried how could a dog well actually two dogs become australian champions with three hernia's in another case again two dogs, was looking after them for friends on holiday and my 7 yr old visitor asked whats wrong with them. as i was going to the vet for one of mine i took the pair just to make sure they were ok, i had noticed they moved funny myself. grade 4 patella was the answer. if a 7 yr old child could see something was not normal. i asked how could they win 100 challenge points? to be told by a judge the above. with the additional comment judges are not vets. as for the hernias? where is making champions with these bettering any breed? walked away shaking my head and still wondering

how weird? it double posted

was that the arab stallion who used to do endurance races when he was in his late 20's? Cant recall his name but I think I'd know if it I heard it. fancy remembering that. it was so many years ago. this ones name was Aeneas and he won 5 tom quilty 100 mile buckles without a single vetout. considering the average vetout rate was 60% n more. then went on to win ironwoman races against horses a third his age. with margins of half and 1/4 of a mile Yep, that's the one! Aeneas I believe he was dual registered as an Australian Stock Horse. What is your connection to him? Yes he was. He was my best freind, partner and forever is in my heart. He brought me out on the other side of a very hard peroid of my life. Thank you

was that the arab stallion who used to do endurance races when he was in his late 20's? Cant recall his name but I think I'd know if it I heard it. fancy remembering that. it was so many years ago. this ones name was Aeneas and he won 5 tom quilty 100 mile buckles without a single vetout. considering the average vetout rate was 60% n more. then went on to win ironwoman races against horses a third his age. with margins of half and 1/4 of a mile

awesome reminds me of this photo, the horse is 26 years old

Sorry. but showing a dog by the very nature of its activity is a great way to socialise a dog. Where do you get unsocialised Show Dogs??? you would think so, but with a breed whose very standard says, suspicious of strangers, doesnt mean its not socalised, it does mean it doesnt go wagging its tail to strangers... sadly judy guards rehomed one that started judys nighmare didnt like the vet and everything went down hill from there, including said vet convincing the new owner the dog needed to be euthanised.. such a sad outcome on all fronts. when will some like that vet realise a dog does have rights to not like everyone...seems that dog was a very good judge of character in hindsight.

how apalling, so everything old is new again. never forget everyones horror some 50 yrs ago when the neighbours cat dissappeared only to be discovered when he returned home all his claws and teeth had been pulled out. didnt take einstein to figure what his intended fate had been. the good news was he led a happy and contented life for a further ten years and no...no stranger could get within a 100 mtrs of him either anymore.

so how do you define "sound decisions" been reading a thread on a suspected HD puppy. didnt take long to suspect the ethics of the breeder. "She was xrayed by the vet and there is no actual bone damage yet (as far as he could tell, and they looked perfectly fine to me), he just said there would be if she didn't get the weight off and stop over doing it with jumping, walking on back legs and running as her ligaments(?) are way too long, allowing her hips to pop in and out. I did contact the breeder a couple of months ago as she was already 6 kilos at 4 months (from memory, not sure exactly) and I was worried. Her reply was that the other puppies in the litter were also that weight. Obviously getting the sinking feeling that I have paid a puppy farmer." then wonders of wonders it was discovered pup is super gangly growing phase and very overweight for age. so no one is safe. considering how many 0 dogs and bitches can and do produce varying degrees of HD in the susceptable breeds and even some that its rarely seen can have it happen. i know of a pup was never better than the runt, the breeder spent mega time giving it every chance but it was one third the size of its litter mates . it was sold to a pet home at only the cost of its vaccinations as the breeder was concerned about its size suspecting dwarfism or something like that although it passed all its puppy checks fine but by 12 months was diagnosed with a form of hd. although no op was needed. bingo one unethical breeder. having bred best in show winners and never one like it before is no protection from your reputation down the gurglier with one disaster. so is a puppy farmer anyone who has a subsound pup ever turn up? that will rule out every breeder sooner or later, thats how breeding works. there is a very old saying.....put the best to the best and hope, for the best.....what does that mean? you have absolutely no guarantees the progeny will turn out half as good as the parents. and why does the story of the ugly duckling exist? because so many ugly duckings can turn out to be the swan, leaving an awful lot with egg on their faces. so if you ever breed you better realise one day (unless you never sell a pup) the day WILL COME, when you will be accused of being a puppy farmer................

waiting with baited breath.... that should be real interesting steve..........

Paypal. Thanks she doesnt want to pay using paypal... as you get the fees with it. Will tell her direct deposit You have to pay more for an international money transfer anyway. Pay pal is instant and clears straight away. the other can take days. exactly. why pay 30 for a $160 bank cheque for nz when paypal is a fraction of that?

how incredibly sad he didnt make it to the same trees he told his wife too.

you poor thing. some vet nurses,, some vets too for that matter need a lesson in manners. bit of humaity too at times. never forget the vet who had the hide to tell me any dog that cant tolerate ivermectin should die, that would eliminate the weak from the breed. also told me same thing about my chihuahua litter that he killed, he vaccinated them all with the full one ml dose, knowing his boss (he was a new employee) only ever vaccinated my 7 week old ones with half a mil as we had found too many died otherwise. the only satisfaction i got was he was fired. all 4 of my beautiful bitch pups died, being their mums last litter, n only daughters didnt help the grieving either.

I cant remember a time ive ever referred to a pup as pet quality? how many times have we kept what we at the time thought was the pick of the litter. Remember it IS the breeder who does get first pick. hands up how many have seen others from the same litter turn out better than your "pick" puppy? I ask, do you want a pet? or to show? If a pup has a fault that will put it down the line i say so and show that that fault is. But even then the swan can transform into the duckling and the duckling become the swan. even decided to hedge my bets and get the advice of not one but two international judges. the result? the worst pup in the litter by 9 months perfect mouths can go wrong. glorious bodies can go oooops imperfect mouths can become MAGNIFICANT.. gawky heads legs etc etc can do what? but already desexed so..live n learn nothing is black and white the only ones who havent seen it havent seen their puppies again as adults would be my suspicion.

one thing not mentioned is the large number sold as "pets" which in fact are show quality. There are far more people who are looking for a quality pet. People who want a "show" quality pup (to actually show it) are the minority. The majority are people with or without children who want a beautiful puppy. Others are happy to take a puppy with a fault. Others Want a puppy that looks like it belongs in the show ring. They have no wish to show, or breed but want a puppy as good as they can get. As a breeder, what greater reward than to see a magnificant representaive of their kennel out and about in public. turning heads where ever they go. To be honest. Where do you think your dog will be most noticed? At a show where the majority present are breeders themselves?

I agree Crisovar, personally I find the term 'furbaby' far more offensive than 'pet quality'. personally i find it hilarious. set a litter loose. let the family who "nly want a pet" take their pick, so who do they unerringly point too? your favourite in the entire litter.....every single time. I don't allow buyers to select their own puppy, I always decide which puppy is the most suitable for each family and anyone who comments on my 'furbabies' earns my instant disapproval excellent way to decide on which one the breeder should keep though if any doubts which one instead of eeny, meenie, miny, moe. learnt very quickly.. never leave the one you intend to keep anywhere it can be spotted.

I agree Crisovar, personally I find the term 'furbaby' far more offensive than 'pet quality'. personally i find it hilarious. set a litter loose. let the family who "nly want a pet" take their pick, so who do they unerringly point too? your favourite in the entire litter.....every single time. who says Pets are lesser dogs? I sure dont. in the case of the toy breeds in particular. for goodness sake thats what they are AND WERE bred for IN THE FIRST PLACE. P E T S..... The show scene is a new additon to the landscape in the real time frame sceme of things.

your thinking and reasoning is very good. problem is we are dealing with a group who like to constantly remind us that if you breed to cover costs. let alone ever admit to making a profit? is to be labled a puppy farmer. we all know puppy farmers have to be eliminated. sooooo. bit of a no win situation. unless that mind set can be changed thats just the beginning of a multitude of problems. Had a very interesting afternoon. Met a lovely lady with an adorable teeny Teacup Chihuahua puppy. "Her" breeder only ever uses 1.2 kg and under parents to keep the breed pure. i remember reading that 4 to 6 lbs being the best breeding size. looked it up and it equats to 4 lb = 1.81436 kg to 6 lb = 2.72155 kg. yet as she said. her puppy is perfectly healthy as is her parents and siblings, so why not breed for this size they are so much nicer. how on earth do you answer that kind of question? AND get them to listen? Let alone understand?

had the same thoughts. what a lovely dog. AND WHAT great teeth he still had.

having had to break up two fights some years ago did what i had seen my dad do. two people. one grabbed one dog by the tail and hind leg and the other person did the same. a third hosed the dogs heads to make it hard for them to breathe in all that water and when they let go to get a mouthfull of air they were pulled apart. no one was hurt. not impressed when a few days later the other dog got out again but the fight was successfully parted same way. although in that case was alone but my dog was thankfully on a chain so grabbed the neighbours dog by his tail and held the hose on their faces with the water on hard and it worked to make them let go. again the neighbours dog made no attempt to bite me. once i had them sepearted. well i was ready to shove the hose in his mouth if he was thinking of it. when will people ever get taught you dont grab fighting dogs by the collar or anywhere near the head? as for those who think hitting them round the head is going to sepearate them...sheesh just sends em nuts, wonder if they think its the other dog hurting them and decide to get stuck into them even more? any behavourists know? and even more important.. is there better ways than what my dad did? really this information is certainly not out there is it?

this is serious or could end up so. i would be calling the police whenever you see them wandering. for their own safety and a naked child can certainly get hurt in more ways than one. there was a child in our neighbourhood lost the lot when he decided to urinate through a fence. the dog on the other side bit the lot off. not a wives tale to scare kids. a family member is married to one of the family whose dog did the bite. a horror no one should have to cope with regardless of who is at fault.

oh that poor man.

lol looks like quite a few develop such accuracy. how many remember the gorilla at toronga park zoo?

have to wonder if its going to turn out to be what i saw in a purebred girl her breeder named her Speculation. she was pure white with two eye patches and her body was white with small scattered dots. sort of a cattledog in reverse colouring. instead of the coloured body with white spots/speckles...it was white body with coloured spots/freckles. was told hilton sinclair told the breeder that when they do crop up they tend to throw really good speckled pups if they are bred from, . she was just kept as a pet so the chance to see if his advice was correct never happened. ive only seen 2 in 60 years

Numbering less than forty at the present time, the Spanish Mustangs from the Cerbat Mountain area of northwestern Arizona are some of the purest Spanish descendants in the United States. Documentation obtained from a pioneer rancher family in l966 and published in a national magazine that same year stated the herd was present when the family settled in the area in the l860's and to their knowledge, no outside blood had ever been introduced. The local Indians made no claim upon the horses stating they had "always been there". The more plausible explanation for the Cerbat herd is the prevailing theory of escape or loss from early Spaniards. A study of the history of Arizona and northern Mexico reveals a number of Spanish expeditions ranging into Arizona, New Mexico and California. Loss, escape, theft by Apaches and other means would easily supply the seed stock into the Cerbat area. Indeed, blood testing of these horses shows without a doubt that they carry Spanish "markers". Living in an extremely inhospitable environment at an altitude ranging from 5000 to 7000 feet, this original herd evolved into an exceptionally tough, agile horse with extreme endurance and survival ability. Due to drought conditions in the area in l971, ranchers began eliminating these historic animals to provide more water for the range cattle, not realizing wild horses will dig for water and thereby open up water holes for the cattle as well. A local rancher who apparently regretted the destruction of these last survivors, gave permission to a friend, a veteran Arizona cowboy, to capture the herd and plans for capture progressed slowly. Due to the extreme difficulty in getting vehicles into the area at that time, weeks were spent hauling materials to fence off any remaining waterholes and to build an enclosure around the main source of water. Once the "trap" was constructed, more days were spent in a camouflaged hole waiting for individual horses to come in to water. Once inside, a hand operated trip wire dropped the gate and the horses were trapped. A second corral located off the trap held the horses as they were caught and feed and water was provided. A total of less than 20 animals were eventually captured and brought down to the flatlands where they were branded and issued the required Arizona paperwork. The group was divided among several people with a number of animals going to the state of Washington. Little or no further information is available concerning this group other than it is assumed that they were either dispersed or died. One stallion and three mares were released in an adjacent mountain range some miles distant from the original capture site by the capturing cowboy. The remaining horses were taken to the Phoenix area and later were moved to Colorado with one stallion being placed on the Cayuse Ranch in Oshoto, Wyoming, the home of Robert E. Brislawn, founder of the Spanish Mustang Registry. A year later the small herd that had been turned loose were water trapped and the foals were removed and brought to Phoenix, consisting of a yearling stallion, two yearling fillies and one weanling filly. Three were purchased by Apache Trail Ranch, then residing north of Phoenix. Realizing the rarity of these horses it was decided to preserve the genetics by producing a pure breeding herd of Cerbat animals, however with only one stallion and two mares, the future was not bright, but with the acquisition of two mares from the Colorado group, the genetic variation was improved. Though the original horses were small in size, with only one individual reaching more than l3 2 hands, the succeeding generation leaped in size by more than a hand, substantiating a theory that the small size was caused by a less than hospitable environment in the mountains. Extremely healthy and strong, those animals surviving for the first year of their lives in the mountains remained small. The one weanling filly, due to better feed, grew to almost l5 hands. Subsequent generations have proved the genetic size to be from l4 2 to l5 hands. Due to the extreme roughness of the terrain from which this group came, the fact that they are documented prior to the settling of the area by white settlers over l30 years ago and the fact that the Indians made no claim upon them, coupled with the extremely heavy Spanish influx into the Arizona area for hundreds of years, it is highly probable the Cerbat herd is one of the purest groups of feral Spanish descended horses in existence. Additional evidence gathered by genetic blood testing by the University of Kentucky proves them to be of Spanish descent. Though the blood testing shows them to be heavily inbred and from a "closed" herd situation, like many wild animals in similar situations, apparently all defective genetic material has been bred out, i.e., any animals possessing abnormal or imperfect genes were culled naturally, leaving only those with superior qualities designed for survival to reproduce. Only the size was decreased due to reduced food supply. Further evidence of the "Spanish connection" is the fact that a number of these Cerbat horses are laterally gaited, doing a very credible "paso" gait though without the extreme action of its cousins, the Paso breeds, which is not at all surprising as they carry genes similar to the Peruvian Paso breed indicating a common ancestor. In l990 surprising news arrived - a very small group of horses believed to be descended from the handful left in l971 were found in the same area. A group of eight was water trapped and blood samples taken and sent to the University of Kentucky for comparison with those taken from the horses captured in l971. Though even more inbred they did indeed match up with the earlier group. It is probable that this new group had no more than five ancestors and no less than three according to the blood tests. If so, this would make them extremely inbred but again, disproving all the detrimental effects commonly associated with inbreeding, the new Cerbats were healthy, strong and actually a bit larger than the original group. Lateral gaits are evident in the newer horses and though undeniably related to the older group, the addition of the new ones to the breeding program was a welcome asset. Disposition of the Cerbats is outstanding, quick to learn, intelligent and willing, with a penchant for association with humans. Due perhaps to their centuries of mountain living, or simply perhaps to their genetic inheritance, their legs and feet are excellent with well boned legs and thick walled feet. Backs are short, hindquarters are sturdy, deep and powerful. Chestnuts on forelegs are small and smooth, extremely small or non-existent on the rear legs. Ergots are tiny or non-existent. The ears are small and curved, eyes are rather high set. A definite relationship to the old type Andalusian can be seen in the facial profile. The chest is rather narrow compared to American breeds and well "veed" up. Shoulders are laid back and heart girth is deep. A product of their Spanish inheritance plus their more recent feral environment, they are a tough, hardy, extremely durable animal. One interesting fact is that resting pulse rate in all individuals tested is rather low - in the low 30's which should be of value in any type of endurance competition. There is not much to choose from in color as bay and chestnut seems to be a consistent part of their genetic inheritance, however at least 50% of these bays and chestnuts are also roans. A rather odd occurrence in the Cerbats is that roan foals are born roan, whereas in many other breeds roan foals show their roan coats only after the shedding of the foal coat. They are extremely consistent in reproduction, not surprising considering they are so closely akin in genetic makeup. The mares have no difficulty in foaling the origiinal Cerbat mares produced well into their 20's. Foals are strong at birth and usually on their feet and nursing within l5 to 20 minutes, a necessity when living in predator country for generations. Though still small in numbers in the pure state, the herd has been preserved and with future expected growth, a small number has been made available to a select few that wish to continue to breed them. Half and five-eighth Cerbat horses have done well in competitive and endurance rides as well as in three day eventing. The future looks bright for a herd doomed to extinction thirty years ago. Yet what is the cause of ALL evil in animals bred by humans odd eh? this is the website i found it on and there is pages of photos of them http://www.angelfire.com/az/xochitl/Cerbats.html

exactly. my neighbour phoned me and asked me to put a goats head her golden had brought home into the bin for her. her excuse it grossed her out so much she couldnt touch it. the second he realised i had it he came running in full attack mode. n he wasnt bluffing it was terrifying to have such a huge dog come at you teeth barred and going for your face. i was lucky the hose and tap was beside me and turned it on full bore and drowned him down. till he backed off and i escaped into the house and stayed till he simmerd down. (He had been around the side of the house when i found the head and I was just dropping the head into the bottom of the bin when he realised i had it and went for me and no time to try and fish it out and throw it to distract him) ONLY THEN did i learn he had attacked her numerous times if she went near his food after she had put it in the bowl. not impressed with either her or her darned dog should add. he eventually died of old age and never attacked again. he was never again had anyone take any food he had or go near him when he was eating and he was fine. they moved to the suburbs from the country and had a fully enclosed yard so he no longer had opportunity for forage for himself.