asal

I remember that from when i was a kid, didnt realise they were still breeding them. fascinating isnt it. discovering the link of particolour coats to friendlyness.

Only you, Souffle! It's time you changed your avatar - that bird is looking poorly. Was listening to an old John Williams (Emu) song on a long boring drive yesterday and the song was about him taking the family's sick budgerigar to the vet .... outrageously funny. Had to take it to the vet .... vet cost $35, bird only cost $5 ..... "antibiotics for its colour, 2 drops on its beak, clean out the cage twice a week". There was a lot more to it ... probably best not to mention here. Emu needs to update that song, the vet visit will now set him back a lot more than $35. yep $120 , just ask my bird, ive the invoice to prove it.

I think your ideas are good ones. and yes, barking and howling that "other" dog breeders need to be "controlled" is what is driving the machine that will roll over all instead, although by that i mean all tracable registered breeders. i so wish you well that it may happen as you suggest. when my fellow members began the "get rid of puppy farmers" so long ago, i cant understand how or why they simply couldnt GET that joe or jane public or politicion would see them in exactly the same light. it would have been nice to find i was the mistaken one, but looking at the present day, Judy Guard and to many to mention others that are the resulting collateral damage, my misgivings and foreboding that witchhunts are like spraying a locust spray, ever thing there gets sprayed too. although maybe thats the wrong anology, the people so dispised are not a swarm, although looking at that pie graph, maybe it is???? but they are so dispersed and untracable only the ones that are registered breeders are in the spotlight for erradication

One law to apply to everyone who breeds dogs? Yeah, you're right, in your dreams. Buggar the dogs, they dont need a future anyway. PETA will fix it. i do think you are right. we who have been the lucky one to have been able to grow up with our dogs, can only feel sorry for those of the future. maybe bring in a ballot system, lodge an application and go on a waiting list for a pup? although Peta wont be letting even that happen.

Well, government has just about everything else regulated ASAL and I am not certain that they would make any worse of a hash of it than what the present situation is. I have never seen so many crossbred mutts and poorly bred purebred dogs as we now have - and they are being pumped out all the time and just for the $. But you don't need to worry, there is no money in it for governments so they too will stay well away from it. Poor dogs are u really seriouly thinking any legislation to control dog breeding is going to apply to anyone but registered breeders?????? in your dreams. do u think a big red light is going to turn on above every home that hasnt had their pet desexed and gets in pup?????????

kids need to be taugh from kindi, pet responsibilty, if the parents cant do it the govt should be making sure the schools are doing it. grief the politicians actually can read and write, they proved it they wrote the joke that put judy guard in the nighmare as a result of that marvelous bit of law reform. now how about doing something posative instead of negative????? teach the kids. its and oldie but still a goodie, give me a child until its 7 and its trained for life" or something like that, the priests and nuns and the ministers too used to say that when i was a kid, they couldnt get us into scripture class fast enough. soo why not educate them about pet care and responsibilty? even a bit of dog training, ie sit heel n stay? some people havent even a clue about one basic let alone any? they just arent getting it from their parents and grand parents like once upon a time

wonder if anyone might twig before its too late and there are no registered breeders, that it is the throw away mentality of some puppy buyers THAT IS THE PROBLEM. gee i said a bad thing didnt i. the dog worlds problems arent the fault of anyone but the mongrel who breed the dog surely?

what about the bright spark that thinks the faster the government takes over dog breeding the better??? more like there will be no registered dogs bred if that happens. as it is ,you are being told, no litters before the decided age, no litters after the 6th? i think? and that brilliant idea even includes bitches that only have one pup per litter. but one that has ten a litter or more can have 60 to 80, even 100 pups, like is the world gone totaly troppo? for those who dont know it toy breeds can even turn up with a litter at 9 years of age. i know one of my retired girls must have got bored with being idle the previous 2 years and took matteres into her own paws, at least i was lucky and her chosen sneak resulted in 6 stunnin purebreds and three of em were her best yet.. no hope of em ever getting regos today. gee that was 20 years ago before something like that happening today for anyone would now be labeled a puppy farmer automaticly now and driven from the membership. well considering the numbers bred yearly are going down by the thousands, puppy buyers wont have much choice of where they will have to go unless they are prepared for a few years on a waiting list eh? yep, its regulate regulate and what did i say? ha yes, regulate the crap out of those dreadful tracables and the dog worlds problems will all be solved. yea and pigs can fly like pidgeons too.

MM i have been wondering about this as well. just off the top of my head (and it might not be a good idea) but what if new people to the forum could only access a few areas and some more experienced dolers could be there to educate them. then they would learn without the trial by fire. i have to say though, some new people are their own worst enemy because they come in all guns blazing without any respect for the forum or the members here lol so well put and so right. umm ive seen entire fullazades (ok lousy spelling) fired point blank at the fool who asks where to get a main register pup. if they dont die from the shock of the first impact most end up with their tails between their legs. not too much friendly chatter, usualy WHAT U WANT TO PUPPY FARM? SERVE YOUR APPRENTICESHIP OR GET OUT! n the ruffled feather brigade go off for a soothing coffee or cuppa.

AND just to add to the mix. how many heard that cancer investigation has led to warnings not to enter your car on a hot day before opening all doors and letting the hot air, "contaminated with the plastics contained within the super heated car, are carsargenic "? ie proven to cause cancers? considering one of my friends and her sister were two of the first women in our neighbourhood to have mobile phones and both died within 18 months of each other with what? brain cancers beside the ear they usually held their phone too i dont doubt the dangers for a minute. the reasearch came about because someone somewhere wondered why is cancer becoming soooo common, whats changed in the last 40 years and they hit on the plastic's now so common in the modern car. think of the thousands of dogs also along for the ride of their lives today?

and that is why i WILL sign the petition is it this one your referring to? http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/parl...on%20No%202.pdf best piece of writing you could wish for isnt it. AND he cant be accused of being a stupid hysterical either.

ha so im not the only one who thought without that muzzle the dog in front might have been swiss cheezed she sure looks seriously cheesed off doesnt she. she looks so happy in the first and second pic's there's even a smile, isnt there.

Can you please share where you got that data Steve, because I've never found anything concrete to show that crossbreed dogs are on average less healthy than the average purebred. Thanks. i cant vouch for averages, one family at our pony club bought a delightful samoyed x labrador, being a crossbred with hybrid vigour its guaranteed to be healthier than either parent breed, her brother bought a litter mate. That is right? isnt it? by 9 months they both were diagnosed with hip displacia. maybe without hybrid vigor they would have been born without any hip's maybe

The US is not having vets report illness by breed by microchip to the folks who are doing this research. That started here in Australia and in the UK. So they are not going to look at breed club information from the US (at least not for their data bank of EBV), they are going to to look at the data they collect. As I said in the beginning I have been won over to the regulation of breeding side of the argument. I can not see how I can promote all the dogs until I can show they have meet the public's expectations on health and health testing. Just like what you wanted for all cav breeders in OZ. I give up on the fight, we will take the power away from the Cav breeders and let the 'experts' decide what they can do and not do. Normally I prefer, in fact had demanded, that breeders to police themselves and make their own decsions, to keep government out of dog breeding. But it is clear that is only prolonging this issue. We need to get this over with. What ever the results are and what ever breeds we loose. At least there would then be some hope for the breeds that fair well to come out on the other side with the seal of approval. We can then start over with a good reputation, backed up by the most progressive Uni health breeding plans in the world. why, ho why, are you assuming governement can do a better job? they couldnt run telstra, they sold it. they couldnt run the commonwealth bank, they sold it. hullo, they have sold more irrigation rights to more water than is even flowing down the murray? they dont even want to build roads? they let companies build them and put toll ways. every single instance being sold to companies to run and you want them to take over dog breeding??????????????????????????? are you really truely serious? it is government that drafted the law that saw Judy Guard videoed, dogs seized, facing 84 years in jail if the letter of the law they wrote was followed and you have trust and faith in the ;) 's that put the chain of events into gear? remember the rspca's defence is judy broke the law, they had no alternative but to follow the letter of the law, only the fact that a magistrate decided to NOT follow the letter of the same law that she is not jailed for life. do you really think she wouldnt be if the rspca had been able to hand down the sentance? take a look at the letters after the elected politicions, over 3/4 of them have law degree's, yet this dogs breakfast was drafted and passed. remember the old joke that the camel was the result of a committee? and you want the very people who cant even draft and understand the rammifications of what they do? do we want camel's playing in our yards?

seems a similar problem in nsw. down the coast i was visiting my sister in law. she is very upset. some months ago a stray cat hid under their house. they thought it was a feral and requested a cat trap. once caught she discovered it was a somewhat aged but obviously very much loved and well trained cat. extremely affectionate and trained to lead even? the ranger insisted she must surrender the cat, not wait for its owner to come looking. she asked could she apply to adopt it if the owner was not found. it would have cost them nothing at the shelter, it was already desexed and chipped, turned out the owners address was no longer current and whereabouts unknown. did she get to buy and rehome the cat? no they refused to release him to her on the grounds he was too old and killed him. she is still devestated and feels if she hadnt called and asked for the loan of the trap a healthy loving cat would still be alived and she would have loved him till the day he died she said he was amazing. and still misses him even though she only had him for one day. is there a rspca at shoalhaven? dont know who it was who refused to give him a second chance

That's really sad but pretty rare, isnt it (the hysterical reaction I'm talking about)? My fave dog was given to me - her breeder entrusted me to give a little dog a nice home. When the dog got sick the breeder offered to pay the vet bills. I said no because that's my deal when I take on a dog. I think most puppy buyers wouldnt even think to ask the breeder to pay if the dog gets sick or am I totally naive? hey i just gave one as a birthday present for a friends daughter, just before puppy was ready to go to her, she developed a abcess, cause unknown. soo baby stayed here until given the all clear . her mum took puppy to their vet for its next vaccination... so what does their vet suggest? xrays, blood tests u name it, to make sure all infection has gone? i was happy to pay all bills by my vet but shocked when i received the happy phone call of what had just been done without my or my vets knowledge by her vet. she was bubbling with happiness. puppy as the all clear, I ask what did all that cost, over 800 dollars, and yes i sure got a sinking feeling. except happy daughers mum had presented the bill her her horrified hubbie.... it was nice to know my vet had managed to reach the same conclusion at the staggering cost of 35 dollars only 2 weeks before... he is very pleased to know he is still on the ball though.

That's really sad but pretty rare, isnt it (the hysterical reaction I'm talking about)? My fave dog was given to me - her breeder entrusted me to give a little dog a nice home. When the dog got sick the breeder offered to pay the vet bills. I said no because that's my deal when I take on a dog. I think most puppy buyers wouldnt even think to ask the breeder to pay if the dog gets sick or am I totally naive? i would like to think its pretty rare. but its happened to me, and two of my friends in the last 3 years so I dont think they consider it rare now. and terrified of the new mindset now. one no longer breeds, the other has decided once her present ones are retired thats it. me? thinking the same LOL just realised you mean the hysterical reaction of the breeder,, well put yourself in her shoes. expected to pay $3,000 now? when they didnt even pay a cent for the pup in the first place? maybe you have that sort of money in the bank, many dont. when you dont, it does tend to cause stress

A little less hysteria & a bit more education. We have a legal system with checks & balances. Go back a few posts & see that Victoria has a Law Reform Commission (as do other states). Individuals & groups can bring to their attention, problems they perceive/experience as a result of laws in their current form. Stating ad nauseum... the letter of the current Victorian law, re debarking, was followed in JG's case. The RSPCA followed each letter of the law. Which that law requires them to do. (There's no wriggle room written into it, of first priority in intervention being an educative role ...as the much later Qld law allows.) First thing I did, was to go read that Victorian law. And found that was so. Right down to the fact that animals don't have to be distressed or disabled to be seized under the Victorian law. They are described among 'things' that can be taken away for evidence. So there was collective horror to many dog people (including me) in how all this letter of the law actually plays out in reality. A poorly worded law that lumps debarking & tail-docking in together....prohibited. And proceeds to apply the same penalty, in that there's a 2nd offence if the dogs are purebreds which are shown. Totally overlooking the fact that a docked-tail has consequence for conformation when exhibited in the show-ring. But a pitch-lowered (debarked) dog has no consequence for the showring... unless it's expected to sing opera at a volume rate to fill the Myer Music Bowl. And totally missing the point that it's restricted procedures they're dealing with....even tho'. elsewhere. the law indicates the circumstances, processes & procedures under which they can be done. Left hand not realising what the right hand is writing, and confusing people in the process. thanks for going to the trouble to do such a easy to understand explaination. soo i didnt realise it was the letter of the law to film everything in any case now that an inspector has been sent to check on. that will certainly add to costs and didnt some one say every word judy uttered was also recorded?

i sincerly hope you are right. think i lost hope of sanity prevailing anywhere governement and laws are involved upon learning what happend to Judy Guard, and the law is still not even being considered for review. instead concerns dismissed and more listed for adding as i said. i soo so hope you are right

I recall reading one post a little while back where the breeder gave a month's worth of pet insurance to each puppy buyer. That was an interesting idea. A lifetime's liability (and maybe I'm reading Shortstep wrong here) seems inherently flawed given that so many issues are late onset or have unknown causes. yes Petplan is 6 weeks insurance from puppy pickup, dont know if there are others. trouble is breeders take their babies to their vet for their first vaccinations and checks for teeth placement, hearts, eyes, hernias , patellas, testes etc and an all clear puppy is music to your ears. BUT, even the next vet check can be different, yet its the puppy breeder wears the unethical hat if its next check is different, not the vet who the breeder had it checked by, nor the judge to passed an 8 week puppy with perfect teeth placement and two testes, even at 12 weeks and or 18 weeks. ive seen it. everything fine then disaster. adult teeth dont come in scissor bite,. breeders unethical in the case of one pup. two teste at 6 weeks 12 weeks and 18 weeks. six months old and ones dissappeared who do you denigrate... the unethical breeder of course. in the case of patellas, cleared by the vet, parents grandparents and puppy. checked by the new owners vets at second and third vaccination all clear. then 9 or ten months old and oopss one going wobbly.. who's the one thats deliberately sold them a dud? do i really need to tell you? of course that unethical breeder. who cares the mug has relied on the very vets who now point the bone straight at ?????????? yet the vets dont say. sorry i was wrong do they? i have great fun with my dogs, dogs are great. but. its just too risky letting a puppy go to a new home anymore. my friend even gave one away as she had an allergic reaction to her vaccination and feared she may be ill again when the boosters have to be done. so what happened? vaccinations fine. BUT six months down the track and get a phone call. my vets said this pup needs a $3,000 op and as the breeder the bills comming to you, hysterical was she? you bet. told her, you have the right to a second opinion. what does her vet find? puppy weighted more than its 5 year old mum already and had fractured both elbows jumping from a verandah. i was only saying to a friend, most of the ops vets decide to do on puppies these days.. once upon a time a luxating dog luxated all its life without surgery now its just about standard procedure it seems from some i have heard from, and no they gave up breeding. simply couldnt see the point in selling a pup for 1,000 and refunding 3,000 for the ops the vet said to be done. soo i wondered, what about paying the first years insurance, its not like things like that happen very often? to be told...but.. the cost of the policy from the price of the pup wont cover breeding and raising it and the buyers sure wont pay the extra..... sooo wheres the comprimise? im stumped to find a posative think the pearler for me was a once long time friend was given two puppies a year apart . 6 n 7 years old down the track get a phone call... "vets doing luxating ops on both of them today and ive told them to send you the bill... just thought to call you so you know its comming and can be ready with the money" sweet. no the bill didnt arrive, her vet when he got the message from the secretary called her and told her there has been not a thing wrong with these dogs since you got them. what have you done different at home to cause this? turned out they had bought a new bed and the dogs were now jumping three feet to get back to the floor in the morning. never met that vet but i adore him. will or did she ever get another from me? not on your nelly

yes i am getting phone calls asking if a puppy comes with a lifetime health guarantee. so "demanding lifetime liability for every pup breed" is looking like the next step. reality? not where im standing. as i asked one man. can you give your own children a lifetime health guarantee????????????????????? bit rich asking it of a dog, or any other species breeder. reality check folks. there aint a critter born with a use by date on the packaging. maybe down the track its comming. but not in our lifetime, if man hasnt extincted himself first my advice? go buy from the mug who is offering the impossible before they discover they are not dealing with whitegoods yet! am i going to continue breeding dogs? no way, no how. im bailing out before the boat sinks completly.

that i suspect should be first priority dont you think?

i know for example the apple dome so loved by chi breeders is certainly a lot bigger apple than ever on the original dogs and been increased over the decades along with the molera, and as a result a percentage of puppies never make it to even their first vaccinations. although in that case its never an issue for a puppy buyer because they simply dont survive. but i know id love it gone from the breed so i dont have to see a puppy born with no skull. no molera in the parents is first on my wish list. moderation in all, to me is good, muzzle not too short, dome medium not extreme. trouble is that makes u open to being branded as not breeding to show win and by default......get the drift Hold that thought Asal - its important we look at that in the thread on these issues. hey could you file it somewhere now? i wont be forum checking again for a while as heaps to do. well i wont if i can switch this darned thing off and get cracking

dont know if it might mollify em put this last post on the offending forum " promise to take bat n ball n leave u in peace. may some think is worth working for anyway wonder if anything judy guard says now shes been rolled too will mean she too is now a member of the hysterical group? cheers"

And that's the sort of crap that your average puppy buyer doesnt want to be bogged down by. We dont care. Just sell us a nice puppy and keep all of that infighting to yourselves. Fight amongst yourselves about health testing etc - the average Joe on the street doesnt want to buy into that. We want a puppy and a nice, rational breeder. Nothing else. We dont want your first born child, a lifetime guarantee against a possible health problem, title deeds to your house. Keep it simple. and that is exactly why ive sat on my hands for 30 years, no one wants to know or talk about it. i looked, i saw, i decided which road i would walk. trouble is with the dog world, the ethicals notice, your not walking to their drum nor can stand by and let you go your own way , and to them its the my way or the highway. thats why the stringy incident happened anyway despite keeping my reasons to myself. the dust is still under the carpet