Guest Steph & Bam Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I trialled a new dog school today, and loved the methods used, the location is great, and nearly all of the trainers are brilliant. But one of the trainers has me worried. My finances are a little tight at the moment, so I have an arrangement with my vet where I am paying for Bam to be desexed before the procedure is done. I'm paying it off a little each fortnight when I get paid. Anyway, this one trainer said that I don't have a chance at succeeding at any training while Bam is entire as I have no chance of getting him to pay attention to me. I disagree. I think it is the same as with every other dog, it takes hard work and consistancy. It really annoyed me as every other instructor said he did quite well and that I needed to work on his focus around other dogs some more. I have arranged to go and watch some other classes with Bam and work on the focus there, which I had done before this conversation took place. I was slightly offended and quite upset by this one trainers perspective, and for the classes that I want to do, she will be there. What can I do or say about it, if there is anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Steph,for your benefit go ask one of the other trainers for an opinion of your Dog.Also perhaps see if you can work with other Trainers separate to the one your having an issue with. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 It's bullshit that an entire dog can't pay attention, but I think you know that already. Basically, everyone, at some point in their training, will run into an instructor who they disagree with and/or who rubs them up the wrong way. Also, in dog world, nearly everybody has their little biases "quirks" based on how they got into doggie pursuits. An instructor who works in rescue will probably have strong views about desexing. Whereas an instructor who regularly shows in conformation may not have strong views about desexing, but may have strong views about cross-breeding. Me, I'm an instructor who has to paint on a plastic smile and try to be nice to the people asking me about grooming problems with their poodle mixes because I'm very much against mixed breed commodity dogs and I just want to yell "WTF did you expect ferchrissakes?!?!". I don't do that, of course. In short, there is plenty to be offended about in dog world, which is as good a reason as any not to waste time on getting offended. You know your dog, you have the relationship with your dog, you can work with an entire dog. I would say nothing and get on with the business of training your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I've had the same problem in the past...so I changed classes to a different instructor with whom I get on really well - and Tango is much happier now because I'm enjoying it. Obedience is like school, if there's a clash for any reason (personality or otherwise) then a) you won't learn because you'll be too p1ssed off, b) your dog will sense your annoyance and will likely play up.....so I think it would be a waste to stay with that particular instructor...I'd quietly either change classes if you can or have a chat to the head instructor and ask for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steph & Bam Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 That's pretty much what I thought. On Tuesday (my next official class) I'll ask for the trainers opinion. I actually pretty much just want to prove her wrong at the moment. Stupid stubborn streak! I know that I am doing well with Bam. He is well behaved (sometimes a little excitable) and he has progressed in leaps and bounds without going to a dog school properly before. I am in no way a trainer, but I have taught him everything he knows, and he is doing amazingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steph & Bam Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I've had the same problem in the past...so I changed classes to a different instructor with whom I get on really well - and Tango is much happier now because I'm enjoying it. Obedience is like school, if there's a clash for any reason (personality or otherwise) then a) you won't learn because you'll be too p1ssed off, b) your dog will sense your annoyance and will likely play up.....so I think it would be a waste to stay with that particular instructor...I'd quietly either change classes if you can or have a chat to the head instructor and ask for a change. She is the head instructor, and more just floats around. I think she got the wrong impression, she walked past as I had to put Bam back into a sit/stay after a over-excited, off-leash kelpie had run into him, he got excited and wanted to play and I had to settle him. As far as I know that's all that she saw. Hopefully next time she will see that he's not like that 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I trialled a new dog school today, and loved the methods used, the location is great, and nearly all of the trainers are brilliant. But one of the trainers has me worried. My finances are a little tight at the moment, so I have an arrangement with my vet where I am paying for Bam to be desexed before the procedure is done. I'm paying it off a little each fortnight when I get paid. Anyway, this one trainer said that I don't have a chance at succeeding at any training while Bam is entire as I have no chance of getting him to pay attention to me. I disagree. I think it is the same as with every other dog, it takes hard work and consistancy. It really annoyed me as every other instructor said he did quite well and that I needed to work on his focus around other dogs some more. I have arranged to go and watch some other classes with Bam and work on the focus there, which I had done before this conversation took place. I was slightly offended and quite upset by this one trainers perspective, and for the classes that I want to do, she will be there. What can I do or say about it, if there is anything? Mate, chalk it up to experience & grow a thicker skin, there will always be someone ready to tell you that you can't succeed because the dog is the wrong breed, too excitable, too old, too young, too large, too small etc etc. That's their opinion & they are entitled to it, just let it roll off like water off a ducks back & get involved in what is really important which is training your dog! You know the best response is to prove her wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiggy Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 How does she explain all the entire dogs trialling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) Just as well she didn't have the very much entire Mad Zig in her class....she'd probably be on valium by now ETA: What rot Some of the best trialling dogs I've ever seen were entire!!! Edited September 14, 2007 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I tend to agree with MrsD and Anita. Head instructors are usually rotated annually anyway, and beside the fact she P#ssed you off, she may also have many secrets to share with you. I think over the years I have learnt some fantastic methods off instructors and other handlers that, personally, I cant stand! Many clubs actually have only one instructor that stands out ....................one being a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeak Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I have a shelter dog who can be very excitable and bouncy in situations with new people and other dogs (ie., any obedience classs!). My choice of training collar is a martingale collar. I have been told by various instructors, some even before they have seen my dog work, that I must put her on a check chain, halti, etc. My dog, my choice in what I choose to train her with. These people used to get to me, but I now believe that they are the uneducated ones, particularly since they didn't have the decency to find out why I chose a particular training collar.... which is because I am unsure of my ability to train with a check chain (I don't know if my timing is all that is needed & my dog also reacts to the sound of chains in a fearful way) and I personally do not like head halters - I see too much potential for injury. I chose a martingale as I am worried about my dog backing out of her collar and I like the fact that I can give a limited correction. I have very little respect for the instructors who have told me "you must", which is what I think you are expressing. I have much greater respect for the instructor who held his tongue for 12 months, and then when we passed our grading into Class 3, said with great humour "I held almost no hope for either one of you when you first started"!!!!!!! Not only is this gentleman a good instructor, he knows when to hold his tongue. Had he said that to me when we first started training, I would have been shattered. But, since he was actually using it to point out both my and my dog's progress, it was truly a compliment. I had a quiet chuckle to myself, as this is actually the guy that insisted that we go for our first grading!!! So, even though he held little hope, he was able to encourage us to get out of class 1. Mind you we had been there for about 4-5 weeks, but most people only spend 1-2 weeks there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhapsodical78 Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 It's bullshit that an entire dog can't pay attention, but I think you know that already. Basically, everyone, at some point in their training, will run into an instructor who they disagree with and/or who rubs them up the wrong way. Also, in dog world, nearly everybody has their little biases "quirks" based on how they got into doggie pursuits. An instructor who works in rescue will probably have strong views about desexing. Whereas an instructor who regularly shows in conformation may not have strong views about desexing, but may have strong views about cross-breeding. Me, I'm an instructor who has to paint on a plastic smile and try to be nice to the people asking me about grooming problems with their poodle mixes because I'm very much against mixed breed commodity dogs and I just want to yell "WTF did you expect ferchrissakes?!?!". I don't do that, of course. In short, there is plenty to be offended about in dog world, which is as good a reason as any not to waste time on getting offended. You know your dog, you have the relationship with your dog, you can work with an entire dog. I would say nothing and get on with the business of training your dog. Well put. I concur. Also, I have an entire dog who has surpassed every single one of his classmates in obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 (edited) There are plenty of instructors who from personal experience have seen behaviours from entire male dogs that may not have happened otherwise and believe that it is practically impossible to get through with a dog entire without getting into trouble. Then there are other males who have gone all the way through as entire males, probably not so many as most obedience dogs have been desexed. I may be more of a comment of their personal beliefs rather than a personal comment on your dog if that makes sense. A couple of people at the top of the game were having a conversation not too long ago stating that you can't expect miracles trialling with an entire dog. I will be putting this to the test eventually. I hope to prove them wrong Edited September 14, 2007 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Mate, chalk it up to experience & grow a thicker skin, there will always be someone ready to tell you that you can't succeed because the dog is the wrong breed, too excitable, too old, too young, too large, too small etc etc. That's their opinion & they are entitled to it, just let it roll off like water off a ducks back & get involved in what is really important which is training your dog! You know the best response is to prove her wrong . I agree. In all areas in life there will be people who have funny ideas & sometimes they are based on nothing more than an old wives tale. I don't write them off, sometimes they may just deliver one crucial piece of advice that makes a huge difference to me & my dogs. The sheepdog world is full of fixed, quirky ideas, many that make no sense at all, but one weird idea is not going to stop me observing & learning from some of the best in the game. I had a similar comment made to me when I first started agility, only it was more personal. Funnily enough years, later the instructor who made it is someone I have learnt a lot from & respect greatly. I'm glad I didn't pass them off as not worthwhile, I would be less of a handler if I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 I was told that 1) Cattle dogs are hard to train and 2) that you'l never get anywhere if you dont continually praise and loudly. Well after 5 months of training the instructors at my club have learnt two things 1) you can train a cattle dog and 2) some dogs just get way too over excited if you constantly stimulate them with praise! You never learn anything if you dont listen to people though- take what any instructor says into consideration. If your not afraid of hard work I dont see any reason why being desexed or not will cause an issue- I've seen undesexed dogs trial and they dont seem to have an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iltby Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 How ridiculous. Being entire or not has nothing to do with a dog's learning abilities, I would just take what she says with a pinch of salt and hopefully she won't interfere with your training. I don't think she should even be a qualified trainer if she thinks desexing will fix all of Bam's problems or that a dog can't be trained unless it's desexed, that's a terrible attitude. Just listen to what the other trainers have to say and ignore her, her advice sounds like it will be useless anyway. Continue to enjoy the new class and just ignore her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowai Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I trialled a new dog school today, and loved the methods used, the location is great, and nearly all of the trainers are brilliant. But one of the trainers has me worried. My finances are a little tight at the moment, so I have an arrangement with my vet where I am paying for Bam to be desexed before the procedure is done. I'm paying it off a little each fortnight when I get paid. Anyway, this one trainer said that I don't have a chance at succeeding at any training while Bam is entire as I have no chance of getting him to pay attention to me. I disagree. I think it is the same as with every other dog, it takes hard work and consistancy. It really annoyed me as every other instructor said he did quite well and that I needed to work on his focus around other dogs some more. I have arranged to go and watch some other classes with Bam and work on the focus there, which I had done before this conversation took place. I was slightly offended and quite upset by this one trainers perspective, and for the classes that I want to do, she will be there. What can I do or say about it, if there is anything? Your trainers an idiot All dogs can learn to focus and can become great at obedience! Some need longer than others, and they all have areas they have trouble with! Don't lose heart ;) Just stick with it and you guys will do well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) You'd have a hard time at my class- the instructor said we were all as bad as Celebrity Dog School (TV show where no-idea, c-list celebrities tried to get their dogs to do some basic obedience and agility). I take my standard poodle and she obviously doesn't like his breed, either. Doesn't say anything, but you can tell with the body language. The more disobedient and hyper the dog, the more she likes them. One trainer who seemed interested in Charlie when I registered said, "I must be the only one who likes poodles at this club!". Ah, the thick skins we need to have ;) Some days, when you're not doing as well as you'd like, it can get to you a bit ... :D . eta: You're getting him desexed, so why all the bother? Edited September 17, 2007 by Poodle wrangler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I agree with most of the others. After a particularly bad night at agility where I'd copped a bit of a bagging from one of the instructors (wrongly as it turned out) I came away feeling disillusioned and really ready to look for somewhere else to train. I still don't necessarily see eye to eye with this trainer, but they do have a lot to offer if you look at how they work with their dogs and wade through all the rubbish, then take the positive out of what they have to say. I've found the same at obedience from time to time, but in that case it is more because I've said I want to trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowai Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 ;) The first day I was at training I got yelled at for having a suposedly 'illegal' flat collar on my dog! Umm if it was illegal why was I able to buy it from a pet store? It had blunt studs on it, not spikes! Needless to say, I felt very intimidated my first day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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