frank Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 i dont know what the problem is with bailey our cockerspanial. he has become competitive with outr youngest child . 7 year old boy. when the kids play out the back . if they have a race . the dog runs in and bites our son . not the girl 9. the other thing is if we are on the ground . he jumps on you in a playfull way , but starts growling as if chalenging you. when he bit my son . not savageingly but a bite none the less. i picked him up and scorned him and he was trying to bite me !!! . i locked him in the shed . for about 15 minutes . and let the kids play again . this caused him to howl. after we let himout . we tied him up on a lead so he couldnt bite again . he new he was in trouble . . this is going to have to be the case from now on. he is 10 months old . other than this he is fine . and he likes to play with our son . he doesnt dislike him , but i dont understand the biting . ???? if our son was younger , he wouldn't be able to tolerate this . and the dog would have to go . but because the dog is relatively small . and not savagely attacking . we can put up with cautionry . adult supervision and tie up the dog . any one know whats going on here . he is a purebred . , he is an outdoor dog . he is loved and part of the family, we take him for walks and he is always involved in play, he is desexed as well. and he is very much like a child . but wehave to snap him out of this . as now we will tie him up whenever other kids come over to play . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Frank... this says it all... and he is very much like a child . he is NOT really like a child. Dogs do not think like humans.. he sees things from a DOG perspective, and we humans have to try and do that as well . It isn't always easy, either ;) Also..your boy is now a 'teenager', and will be trying to assert himself more. You will get a lot of useful replies from here.. My suggestion is to try and treat him more like a dog, less like one of the children. Where does he sleep? Who does his obedience sessions with him each day? Who feeds him? Who walks him, and how/where? These things will help build a picture of where he fits in your household :p For now...keep him separate from the kids when they are outside...put him in the laundry or somewhere where he can't see what's happening, and get frustrated. Would it be possible for someone to walk him while the kids are outside? Maybe he shouldn't be always involved in their play...he is young , and dogs react to movement and noise...getting excited, and playing like a DOG...not to Human rules I am sure erny or one of the other wise people here will help you and your pup! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 i havent been that involved in playing with the dog . but i meet a dog 1/2 way when they play . if they get rough so do i . but that is play . if a dog were to get carried away and bite , then it's time for ignorance and a lead . what i think he is doing is picking up her fear , when he gets rough . Also believe there was an issue with the same dog attacking your daughter when 5 months old. So what have you being doing regarding training in the last 5 months?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) e Edited October 14, 2007 by isaviz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 i dont know what the problem is with bailey our cockerspanial. he has become competitive with outr youngest child . 7 year old boy. when the kids play out the back . if they have a race . the dog runs in and bites our son . not the girl 9. the other thing is if we are on the ground . he jumps on you in a playfull way , but starts growling as if chalenging you. he is a purebred . , he is an outdoor dog . he is loved and part of the family, we take him for walks and he is always involved in play, he is desexed as well. and he is very much like a child . but wehave to snap him out of this . as now we will tie him up whenever other kids come over to play . To tie him up when children are playing, jumping, screaming and running around him is the very worst thing you can do. The dog will become overstimulated and his level of frustration will go through the roof. Tying him up around all this activity is not being fair to the dog and it's setting him up to fail. It allows him no outlet for his frustration and chances are if a child comes within his reach he's likely to nip them in his excitement. Put the dog right away from the children when they're running around. Why are you letting the dog join in when the children are having a race? Same situation, frustration caused by pup being overstimulated because kids are running around doing what kids do. The dog is not coping with the situation. He's jumping on you because he hasn't been trained to behave otherwise. He is treating you like a dog because that's all he knows. Get him into obedience classes so you learn how to train him and supervise all interaction with the children. If you continue to let let him run with the children when he clearly isn't coping, things will get out of hand and the dog will suffer the consequences. Gentle play with kids only and always under supervision. This dog is behaving like a dog. He's not 'very much like a child' at all and his behaviour is telling you this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 get him checked out at the vets in case he has cocker rage cant think of the proper name for it. Oh dear .. ignore that Frank.. Good post Anne. Sounds spot on to me. Frank, have you been taking Bailey to obedience training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) Yes Frank ignore me Edited October 14, 2007 by isaviz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 thanks for all the replies guys . thanks for the link isavas. it is similar to this . but only to my son . i do remember some months ago . my son was cruel and kicked bailey. i think he is now a teenager and is standing up for himself and playing rough. so what i will do is keep the dog out of childrens play from now on . thanks guys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Yes Frank ignore me You may not know that Rage Syndrome is a very rare brain disorder that is nothing like the typical boisterous cocker puppy behaviour that Frank has described here. Considering you admitted you did not even know the name of the disorder, I think you should refrain from trying to diagnose it over the internet Very very few of the behavour issues seen in cockers, and ANY dogs for that matter, are attributable to Rage Syndrome, and people should not jump into threads where the words "cocker" and "problem" are mentioned, and immediately suggest it is the possible cause . It's just ridiculous, annoying, and gives the breed an unnecessarily bad name. Frank, you didn't say whether Bailey is being obedience trained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) I just read that link seemingly about Cocker Rage Syndrome. Honestly the whole blurb had nothing to do with rage syndrome and it was in fact an accurate description of a dog resource guarding. Many dogs will do this until trained otherwise and it certainly isn't Cocker rage. I have no idea why it's alluding to Cocker rage at all apart from the fact that the author was about to research the subject. Very misleading indeed edited to add: Amen to that Toohey. Edited October 14, 2007 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 so what i will do is keep the dog out of childrens play from now on . thanks guys . So the dog is going to be deprived of playing with the children because he has not been taught how to behave properly? Is that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...=27390&st=0 I hope your dog turns out okay but it also does not hurt to find out more from the actual breeder and a vet. Edited October 14, 2007 by isaviz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILFC Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I remember I thread about this before as showdog has said. What are you doing to deal with these issues? Apart from keep the dog away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 There's a big difference between an adolescent dog getting over excited when children and running and screaming, and cocker rage. Firstly, Frank, you need to establish WHY the dog bit your son. He may have been over-excited, and snapped in that excitement, which is not unusual. If playing with other dogs, he could bite in that situation, and it would be perfectly normal. If that is the case, he needs to learn that he is a rung down the ladder from the children. He may have perceived your son (who he doesn't like as much as he likes your daughter) as a threat to your daughter. Or he may have cocker rage, according to our two bob experts. You are not going to be able to take any action until you have had some personal, experienced advice. You may wish to spaak to your breeder, or you may wish to contact a GOOD trainer who will come and see the situation, and make a decision about how to stop it. No one here can really help you, because no one has seen what happened. You may need to rehome the dog. Personally, I would never let an immature dog run around with excited, screaming children. Tieing him up in sight of the children is not a good solution either. He should be away from them - that is, inside the house, out of sight of them. Please do get professional help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 I WILL KEEP A MATURE head about this.i dont believe the dog is a threat to any member of the family. i do think he challenges my son because he is the smallest and loudest in the family. he is still allowed to play with the kids . but the kids wont be having running races without an adult present . and the dog will be kept away from rough play by either being with me or my wife . he plays ball well. and chase well. and soccer well. on this day though as brayden ( my son) was running past him he bit him on the arm . we gave the dog a smack on the bum and said naughty. then the kids raced again , this time he bit brayden on the back . then he was put inot the shed ( where his bed is , and the door was closed . he new he was in trouble and started howling . now after he was let out , by all of us he rejoined us in the back yard for non rough play ( a pat and a walk) . no obedience training . and wont be getting any , unless this becomes a continued problem . we assume the dog will outgrow it . and so will our son. till then no running races or rough play in the back yard without adult supervision . our german shephard would've let any member of the family kill it without even a growl . i guess we were lucky with this temperament . which was learned over time . bailey will play as rough as anyone does with him . i guess he needs to learn not to be the instigator. he enjoys the kids, and the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Frank,I would do a check of your management and leadership of this Dog.Frank both times when your Son was bitten,motion was involved.Children unknowingly when racing around and playing can trigger off a Dog"s prey drive.You need to be able to channel the Dogs prey drive and or redirect it with a Ball or Toy. This Dog may well see himself as having a higher rank than your Son in the pack also.Maybe spend a little time helping your Son to understand how he set himself a higher rank than the Dog. Frank this is not really a major issue and I would not as some said rehome him.The Dog is just being a Dog. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I WILL KEEP A MATURE head about this.i dont believe the dog is a threat to any member of the family. i do think he challenges my son because he is the smallest and loudest in the family. he is still allowed to play with the kids . but the kids wont be having running races without an adult present . and the dog will be kept away from rough play by either being with me or my wife . he plays ball well. and chase well. and soccer well. on this day though as brayden ( my son) was running past him he bit him on the arm . we gave the dog a smack on the bum and said naughty. then the kids raced again , this time he bit brayden on the back . then he was put inot the shed ( where his bed is , and the door was closed . he new he was in trouble and started howling . now after he was let out , by all of us he rejoined us in the back yard for non rough play ( a pat and a walk) . no obedience training . and wont be getting any , unless this becomes a continued problem . we assume the dog will outgrow it . and so will our son. till then no running races or rough play in the back yard without adult supervision . our german shephard would've let any member of the family kill it without even a growl . i guess we were lucky with this temperament . which was learned over time . bailey will play as rough as anyone does with him . i guess he needs to learn not to be the instigator. he enjoys the kids, and the family. Frank I hope I don't bore you shitless with this but I do want to give you my opinion on a couple of things you've said and it's great that you've taken on board what we've said without getting precious and pissy about it. I don't know if the dog remembers the boy kicking him but I doubt you would allow a repeat of that behaviour from your son anyway. All noisy rough, running and ball play by the kids is when the dog must be put away so he doesn't get hyped and frustrated. Agreed? Later on IF you train him he will probably be able to join in with the kids games because in training him he will know what he is allowed to do. At the moment he has no idea. There's nothing better than to see dogs and kids playing football etc., and dogs running with kids. I know, I had 4 boys and 4 big dogs (Rotties and GSD's) and they all played footy and tennis in the park...but I had obedience trained my dogs and they knew teeth are never put on flesh...ever. And kids must be taught to never, ever hurt dogs. I think the pup loves playing with your son. The boy plays louder, faster and is great fun and the nips are the way the pup would play with another dog. The pup is running with his pack and loving it. The nipping was all part of the game to the dog. You see that pup has no idea why he got a smack on the bum and put in the shed. He doesn't know he did anything wrong, he was howling because he wanted to be back in the game not because he thinks he did wrong...the solution is TRAINING so pup learns. Now about the training. Why are you against obedience training? The dog is training itself at the moment and you clearly don't like what he's training himself to do. He will continue to train himself, nothing can stop him learning unless YOU take charge of what he learns by training him to behave the way you want him to and you need to learn to teach him in a way he understands. He's a pup and he needs be taught, the same as children need to be taught. Dogs and children don't just grow out of behaviours unless they are taught that certain behaviours are unacceptable. They grow into even more unacceptable behaviours (example...teenage behaviour;) Why not give obedience training a go. You and the kids will love seeing your pup obey a command with just one word and the dog will love knowing how to please you. Obedience training is fun for kids and even for you...for the dog it's work and all good dogs need a job. The training will teach you, the kids and the dog so that you're all on the same page. It's a good way to spend a lazy Sunday as a family and that way everyone benefits. Give it a go, I think you'll have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Frank,I would do a check of your management and leadership of this Dog.Frank both times when your Son was bitten,motion was involved.Children unknowingly when racing around and playing can trigger off a Dog"s prey drive.You need to be able to channel the Dogs prey drive and or redirect it with a Ball or Toy. This Dog may well see himself as having a higher rank than your Son in the pack also.Maybe spend a little time helping your Son to understand how he set himself a higher rank than the Dog. Frank this is not really a major issue and I would not as some said rehome him.The Dog is just being a Dog. Tony Tony I didn't see anyone say to rehome the puppy but perhaps I missed it. The dog is only a pup and I believe some obedience training will get things in order. The pup nipped the boy in playing rather than launched a bite attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 frank... the poor pup was howling because he didn't know what was going on, and was upset at being locked away in the middle of a fun time He DIDN'T know he was "in trouble" as such. All he knew was that you were angry, and he was suddenly locked up. No Obedience training? I don't mean FORMAL, High-level obedience... but most dogs have a few minutes at least, in a day , when they are taught to sit, or come, or walk nicely on a lead... don't you do any of this? If you don't teach your dog the 'right' habits, and let him practice being 'GOOD"..how is he ever going to learn what is "wrong" ? Obedience sessions, or if you like, "life's Lessons time" are a good opportunity to get to know each other, and for the dog to get heaps of praise for doing things according to OUR rules Now, we live in the bush..have dogs which are outside as well, working sheepdogs. They never have to walk on a leash... or a lot of things a town dog does... BUT when they are puppies they DO have a couple of quiet one-on- one times each day where they practice sitting, coming when they are called, shown that they are not supposed to jump on us, etc. Some of it sticks BUT I believe that all pups need this little bit of one-on-one time, as a bonding and learning time, and a chance for us to communicate with each other. As said...your pup is reacting to the noise and movement, and he may not 'grow out of it', UNLESS he is shown/taught over a period of time, that behaving in a different way brings rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 So many things wrong with the scene you are describing. The others have said it all. The dog is still a puppy, it's the best time to train a dog. However, most breeds are excitable at this age and some breeds remain excitable once they pass the puppy years anyway - think Jack Russells and foxies. Smacking a dog and saying "No" is not the right way to train. Do dogs speak English??? No. Do they smack each other??? No. None of this is the dog's fault. I have posted on some many threads about these sorts of problems. Responsible ownership starts with having a well trained dog - this is achievable NO MATTER the age of the dog. It just takes time and commitment. Are you walking the dog? Dogs at this age should be walked for at least an hour a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now