BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hi all, I am sorry if I am posting this in the wrong spot - please feel free to move it if I have misplaced it. Yesterday I inherited a bichon frise... He is a gorgeous dog who I grew up with... Today is his 13th birthday, and aside from the fact that he is aging, he is heavily obese (he weighs almost 9 kilos), has calcium oxalate stones, a heart murmur, kidney disease and arthritis in almost every joint and his skin gets very irritated. Since my father has had to move overseas, I am going to care for him for the rest of his days... I have two young rescues too, but they are only 1 yr old and 3 yrs old and very healthy... so I dont know a lot about what to do here? I want to give Elroy the bichon the best rest of his life I can possibly give him and make sure he is as happy as he can be. Currently I think he is a bit sad and confused being in a new home with a new "mum" after 13 years... I would love to relieve some of his pain, and while I have been told there isnt much chance of him losing any weight nor getting any better any time soon, I dont think I could live with myself if I didnt try. He's on a special hills prescription diet and only eats one small meal a day as per the vets orders. He's not allowed most (if not all) fruit and vegetables nor any meats because they produce calcium which isnt good for his stones... He can walk, but gets tired very fast and also gets very sore afterward. I dont want to push him because of his high change of having a heart attack, I just want to help. I thought maybe someone could give me some advice as to what I can do for him for the remainder of his days? I know the chance of him living out 2009 isnt high (as I have been told numerous times), and I understand that the vet and I will eventually have to make the inevitable and terrible decision that no one really wishes to think of... But until that day comes where he is suffering too much, I want to try to make it better... Thanks if you got through all of that and any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated!! xo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Please, someone? Anyone? I am just trying to do the right thing and need some sort of support... I am lost with what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Sorry, Just bumping this - Not being pushy, just dont want anyone who could potentially help us to miss this... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 BDog: I would love to relieve some of his pain, and while I have been told there isnt much chance of him losing any weight nor getting any better any time soon, I dont think I could live with myself if I didnt try. Who told you that? If you want him to lose weight, feed him less. That will work on any dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 BDog:I would love to relieve some of his pain, and while I have been told there isnt much chance of him losing any weight nor getting any better any time soon, I dont think I could live with myself if I didnt try. Who told you that? If you want him to lose weight, feed him less. That will work on any dog. the vets have told us. Feeding him less would mean feeding him nothing. He eats next to nothing currently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 What blood tests has he had done? Thyroid? Is anyone in the home giving him treats outside his meal? Personally I"d halve the daily ration and feed him twice a day. Like us, more frequent meals boost metabolism. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 What blood tests has he had done? Thyroid?Is anyone in the home giving him treats outside his meal? Personally I"d halve the daily ration and feed him twice a day. Like us, more frequent meals boost metabolism. W I am yet to get all his veterinary records, but I assume all tests have been done. He only came to live with me yesterday. He eats a quarter of a metric cup of a mix of dry prescription kibble and prescription u/d canned food with water in the mid morning and the same at 5.30-6.00 in the evening... Both of my rescues eat a raw diet with a lot of raw fruit and veggies, but Elroy isnt allowed to eat that... Thanks for your advice... any more? I'll take anything I can get - I love this dog and he deserves no less than any other - I want to do the best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is he on any pain relief medication? Def need to get the vet records and find out what has been done in recent past. Would he eat fruit and veg if he was given them anyway? At least you've taken him in to give him the best chance he could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is he on any pain relief medication? Def need to get the vet records and find out what has been done in recent past. Would he eat fruit and veg if he was given them anyway? At least you've taken him in to give him the best chance he could have. I have been told to give him Metafax (or something like that? Metalax maybe??) in his food when he is limping from his arthritic pain, but not to give it to him too often. I should be getting his full vet records in the next few days... (I have some of it already) As far as I know, he's been tested for almost everything under the sun, and with each test, something else is found He prob wouldnt eat fruit and veg like my two do... mine LOVEEEE raw fruit and veg. I would have to blend his and mix it with his food. But I have been instructed to give him none at all (I have a whole list of things hes not allowed to eat) because it can create calcium in his urine which will turn his crystals into stones (or so I have been told?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I'm not an expert, but having been a nurse, know that you can end up on so many treatments that they counteract each other. It might be worthwhile seeing another vet as they can get complacent with their treatment over a long period of time. Maybe prioritise his illnesses so you can deal with them easier. I would consider his weight, heart problems and pain his most pressing problems. Kidney stones aren't life threatening. Also the food you describe is still quite a lot for a little dog. How much canned food does he get?? It's tricky, but I think you could improve his quality of life. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) I'm not an expert, but having been a nurse, know that you can end up on so many treatments that they counteract each other. It might be worthwhile seeing another vet as they can get complacent with their treatment over a long period of time.Maybe prioritise his illnesses so you can deal with them easier. I would consider his weight, heart problems and pain his most pressing problems. Kidney stones aren't life threatening. Also the food you describe is still quite a lot for a little dog. How much canned food does he get?? It's tricky, but I think you could improve his quality of life. Good luck Sorry, I should have specified... The can of u/d dog food is split into 8ths... So he gets 1/8 in the mid morning and 1/8 in the evening... One whole days food is 1/2 a cup of a combo of dry food, water, and the canned food. Other than that and the metafax/lax... (pain meds) he's on nothing else. I would love to be able to walk him more but I am very worried about his heart... That and he is in a lot of pain in his joints after a walk... even a small stroll) He seems to have some respiratory problems also... I am taking him to meet the new vet at the end of the week for another full check up. Although the kidney stones arent life threatening on their own, because he has kidney disease and failure, the stones can be fatal (or so I have been told?) Edited December 1, 2008 by BDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is the U/D for his kidney stones? You mention the stones and then kidney disease. Is that the same thing or is the kidney disease separate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is the U/D for his kidney stones? You mention the stones and then kidney disease. Is that the same thing or is the kidney disease separate? yes, the u/d is for his stones... as far as i know, its high in water and has nothing in it which can add calcium to his urine. His kidney disease and stones are two separate things... but apparently his kidney disease gets worse if the crystals are allowed to form into stones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemappelle Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 1/2 a cup of dry food a day is a lot for a little old dog. Quite a few years ago I used to feed my old 20 kg dog 1 cup of special dietary dry and that maintained her slightly overweight weight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 1/2 a cup of dry food a day is a lot for a little old dog. Quite a few years ago I used to feed my old 20 kg dog 1 cup of special dietary dry and that maintained her slightly overweight weight! Thanks for that! Its not a whole half cup, its also mixed with water and the u/d can - just a half cup of food in total. I will definitely cut back his food intake if half a cup seems like a lot. Thank you very much for that! He is VERY overweight - almost 9 kilos when he should be around 5... I have the opposite problem with another one of my dogs - shes so thin! She's 3 kilos but she has had lots of check up's re her weight and shes 100% healthy... Its funny. How much would you recommend his total daily food intake be? I want him to at least gain some mobility as he can barely even walk up stairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Is the U/D for his kidney stones? You mention the stones and then kidney disease. Is that the same thing or is the kidney disease separate? yes, the u/d is for his stones... as far as i know, its high in water and has nothing in it which can add calcium to his urine. His kidney disease and stones are two separate things... but apparently his kidney disease gets worse if the crystals are allowed to form into stones.... Do you know what form of kidney disease it is or is that in the vet stuff you're waiting on? I know cats get the crystals. I have a reference somewhere at home, I think, so will look that up. It would have been from when I was on the K9-Kidney list. In regards to the weight, I'd be interested in what the vet thinks. Might be something else unrelated to the kidney disease. Depending on what type it is, I would have thought that he'd have trouble keeping the weight on. Edited December 1, 2008 by Sheridan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is the U/D for his kidney stones? You mention the stones and then kidney disease. Is that the same thing or is the kidney disease separate? yes, the u/d is for his stones... as far as i know, its high in water and has nothing in it which can add calcium to his urine. His kidney disease and stones are two separate things... but apparently his kidney disease gets worse if the crystals are allowed to form into stones.... Do you know what form of kidney disease it is or is that in the vet stuff you're waiting on? I know cats get the crystals. I have a reference somewhere at home, I think, so will look that up. It would have been from when I was on the K9-Kidney list. In regards to the weight, I'd be interested in what the vet thinks. Might be something else unrelated to the kidney disease. Depending on what type it is, I would have thought that he'd have trouble keeping the weight on. Unfortunately I am still waiting on the vets papers to find out the specifics on his kidney disease... The papers I have only make reference to the disease, stones (calcium oxalate stones) and heart murmur but with no specifics. He has been on a "diet" for years now and only seems to be gaining more weight. I was told yesterday by my family that he weighs 9 kilos, but I have just weighed him and he's now 10.1 kilos. in Dec 2007 he was 8... I am not exactly sure what the cause of the weight gain is - apparently he isnt being fed a lot, but it seems now that maybe he is being fed too much? His food intake will be make smaller from today onwards and he will go for daily slow strolls and I will track his progress over the next few weeks re the weight. He is really the biggest small dog I have ever seen... I am hoping that the weight gain and overall obesity is as simple as eating too much - I hope its not yet another health issure for the poor lil guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 If his ideal weight is 5kg.. he should be fed 100 grams of food per day. Measure it out in the mornings and divide into smaller meal for him, so he can eat 3-4 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDog Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Thank you - I will start him on 100g first thing. Is it possible for a sick, 13 yr old dog to lose just over 5 kilos? Here is a pic of the top of him compared to my lil girl rescue who is 3 yrs old... they are the same height and length... Edited December 1, 2008 by BDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Oxalate stones are often diet related. My stafford contracted them years ago and we changed his diet to all natural (low oxalate) foods. I did use the Hills UD for a while but it has lots of cereal and to be honest, I although it did not hurt him, I don't really think it did much good. Raw bones will let him feel like he is eating without adding too much to the diet. Can the stones be dissolved/exploded and passed or removed (our lad had to have them removed via surgery - not cheap but necessary). We found once they were removed and we adjsuted his diet, there has been no further issues with oxalate stones. There are plenty of websites on canine oxalate stones and low oxalate diets for dogs - use google. As others have suggested, lower his calorie intake and he will lose weight - this will help with the arthritis as he won't have so much weight on those joints. Ester C (powder) and fish oil also help a lot with athritis. Good luck with him. To be honest though, you have put this in the palliative care section for terminally ill dogs and I think it should be moved because he is not really terminally ill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now