Need Help With My Dog?

[BDog]

Oxalate stones are often diet related. My stafford contracted them years ago and we changed his diet to all natural (low oxalate) foods. I did use the Hills UD for a while but it has lots of cereal and to be honest, I although it did not hurt him, I don't really think it did much good. Raw bones will let him feel like he is eating without adding too much to the diet.

Can the stones be dissolved/exploded and passed or removed (our lad had to have them removed via surgery - not cheap but necessary). We found once they were removed and we adjsuted his diet, there has been no further issues with oxalate stones. There are plenty of websites on canine oxalate stones and low oxalate diets for dogs - use google.

As others have suggested, lower his calorie intake and he will lose weight - this will help with the arthritis as he won't have so much weight on those joints. Ester C (powder) and fish oil also help a lot with athritis.

Good luck with him.

To be honest though, you have put this in the palliative care section for terminally ill dogs and I think it should be moved because he is not really terminally ill

Thank you so much for this info! He has has the stones for a long time and had them removed once before. I am under strict instructions not to give him raw bones as he's not allowed any meat - especially red meat but I will def. ask the vet about this and do more research one it. Using the u/d food is only something I have been instructed to do - I am very open to trying new things and will do anything to help the old guy out. My dad never had him on any sort of glucose powder (like saschas blend or glide) for his arthritis and I was thinking of adding some to his food, but thought it may be best to ask the vet first? My 3 yr old rescue has glide mixed with her food as I have been told she will develop bad arthritis in the future due to horrible neglect and abuse before she came to live with us.... her joints already get sore and she's only 3 - its very sad...

i wasnt sure that this was the right section for this post - I am more than happy for it to be moved (which i said in my initial post). I am not 100% on what constitutes terminally ill other than I have been told he will be very lucky to live out 2009... I am very sorry if I have offended anyone with my thread placement.

[BDog]

how would I go about moving the thread if anyone feels it's in the wrong place?

[Sheridan]

I don't think your thread is in the wrong place.

Dogs with kidney disease certainly do better with small meals parcelled out over the day. A 100 grams is not a lot of food so you have to ensure that it's the right food. An indepth examination, blood and urine tests (particularly his urine-creatinine protein ratio) will reveal a lot about the type of kidney disease he has.

[Tintin Jac]

If his ideal weight is 5kg.. he should be fed 100 grams of food per day. Measure it out in the mornings and divide into smaller meal for him, so he can eat 3-4 times a day.

I think this post is very important.

Measuring the amount of food in "cups" is by no means accurate. It is much more accurate to measure by weight, especially if you want to reduce the weight of an obese dog.

It is the only real way to be able to tell what you are ACTUALLY feeding.

Best of luck.

[Staffyluv]

Oxalate stones are often diet related. My stafford contracted them years ago and we changed his diet to all natural (low oxalate) foods. I did use the Hills UD for a while but it has lots of cereal and to be honest, I although it did not hurt him, I don't really think it did much good. Raw bones will let him feel like he is eating without adding too much to the diet.

Can the stones be dissolved/exploded and passed or removed (our lad had to have them removed via surgery - not cheap but necessary). We found once they were removed and we adjsuted his diet, there has been no further issues with oxalate stones. There are plenty of websites on canine oxalate stones and low oxalate diets for dogs - use google.

As others have suggested, lower his calorie intake and he will lose weight - this will help with the arthritis as he won't have so much weight on those joints. Ester C (powder) and fish oil also help a lot with athritis.

Good luck with him.

To be honest though, you have put this in the palliative care section for terminally ill dogs and I think it should be moved because he is not really terminally ill

Thank you so much for this info! He has has the stones for a long time and had them removed once before. I am under strict instructions not to give him raw bones as he's not allowed any meat - especially red meat but I will def. ask the vet about this and do more research one it. Using the u/d food is only something I have been instructed to do - I am very open to trying new things and will do anything to help the old guy out. My dad never had him on any sort of glucose powder (like saschas blend or glide) for his arthritis and I was thinking of adding some to his food, but thought it may be best to ask the vet first? My 3 yr old rescue has glide mixed with her food as I have been told she will develop bad arthritis in the future due to horrible neglect and abuse before she came to live with us.... her joints already get sore and she's only 3 - its very sad...

i wasnt sure that this was the right section for this post - I am more than happy for it to be moved (which i said in my initial post). I am not 100% on what constitutes terminally ill other than I have been told he will be very lucky to live out 2009... I am very sorry if I have offended anyone with my thread placement.

We gave up the UD food and changed to turkey meat, chicken, tuna, kangaroo and a small amount of other red meat each week (all human grade) with sweet potato and zucchini as the main vege component. We cook this for our lad and he does not get bones as he won't eat them raw - I suggested bones as something to do as he will be hungry and used to getting more food and bones won't add that much to the calorie intake.

Our lad has not had a recurrance of oxalate stones since being put on this diet - recommended by an holistic vet.

Find a good holistic vet and take your lad in to see them - they can make a diet specifically for him and it will be cheaper than UD.

[Sheridan]

Just on the above, the OP has to take into account the kidney disease. She will not want foods high in phosphorus (which, for example, sweet potato is).

[poodlefan]

The only way i'd be attempting a major diet change for a dog of this age and health is under the supervision of a vet.

If you wanted to try raw, a holistic vet would be your best bet.

[Staffyluv]

Just on the above, the OP has to take into account the kidney disease. She will not want foods high in phosphorus (which, for example, sweet potato is).

Based on the information supplied I have assumed that the 'kidney disease' is from the oxalate stones only. That is why I made my suggestions because that is what we have done and it worked for us. BUT I did suggest that the OP seek the advice of an holistic vet to do this as they will make the diet animal specific :rolleyes:

Agree entirely PF - I believe the OP would benefit from the assistance of an holistic vet. Most conventional vets will just suggest the use of HSD-UD for oxalate stones, I have not met one that has suggested a diet change. Once again though, diet should only be changed slowly and with the assistance of a vet/holistic vet ;)

[BDog]

Thanks so much everyone - I will definitely look into every suggestion! His oxalate stones are an entirely different thing to his kidney disease - he has both. That is why I have been under such strict instructions not to give him certain foods. (most of all meats, legumes and sweet potato... and carrot and spinach). I am willing to try anything to help him out though... He's such a lovely boy and he just looks like he's in so much pain all the time. This morning he could not get out of bed to toilet because his joints were so sore... My husband is going out today to buy us some scales so we can start to weigh his food instead of measuring it...

I'm sure this will all become much easier in the near future as he has only been living with us for a few days so far and I am not used to caring for a dog like him yet... My other dogs were entirely different as we were dealing with behavioral problems due to neglect and abuse... Elroy is the sweetest little boy in the whole world and looking at him in so much pain is so sad...

I have tried to read as much as I possibly can on the internet re weight loss etc and am going to try and find a good vet (we live in a small town with only 2 vets who are both great, but def. not holistic).

I believe that his weight is the biggest issue to tackle first as it directly affects all of his other problems. If I had to categorise him, I would say he's morbidly obese... And he has a heart murmur which the vet said will probably be his downfall. My family has been trying to get him to lose weight unsuccessfully for years, but I am 110% determined to finally succeed!

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes old dogs to actually lose weight? In my mind he really needs to lose 5kgs, but at 13 I am not entirely sure if that is possible?

Does slight exercise help a great deal in the process of losing weight for dogs as it does with humans? (Please excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question, as none of my dogs have ever been overweight and I really dont know a lot about it?)

Also, one more small bit of info... He's visited 4 vets to date re his condition who all diagnosed him the same... He will be visiting his 5th vet soon for a check up and another opinion...

Edited December 1, 2008 by BDog

[Staffyluv]

All Natural Vet Care in Sydney are happy to deal with you via email, phone consult and you can get your vet to fax all test results to them if you want the opinion of an holistic vet. That is who we use and we are in Canberra.

All Natural Vet Care

You will see a big difference in his arthritis when he loses some weight - excess weight really puts strain on already strained joints. Can he take joint guard or sashas blend type products to assist with it?

As for how fast he would or should lose the weight, it will depend on a lot of things - how much food you cut down to, how much exercise he CAN do at the moment, his medication and or illnesses may slow or speed up the weight loss too.

[BDog]

All Natural Vet Care in Sydney are happy to deal with you via email, phone consult and you can get your vet to fax all test results to them if you want the opinion of an holistic vet. That is who we use and we are in Canberra.

All Natural Vet Care

You will see a big difference in his arthritis when he loses some weight - excess weight really puts strain on already strained joints. Can he take joint guard or sashas blend type products to assist with it?

As for how fast he would or should lose the weight, it will depend on a lot of things - how much food you cut down to, how much exercise he CAN do at the moment, his medication and or illnesses may slow or speed up the weight loss too.

Brilliant! Thank you so much for that link!

I can see how much his weight is affecting his mobility - at times he can barely stand... He gets very swollen in the mornings and evenings especially and for me, he NEEDS to lose weight because I just hate to see him struggle like that!

I was actually wondering about the joint guard etc... My 3 yr old rescue girl is on it due to her abuse in her past... She will develop bad arthritis in the future... I thought I should wait and spk to the vet first before giving it to him?

I would love to get him to be doing exercise as much as he can but the last thing I wast to do is over-excerpt him. So far we have been strolling around the grass on the front of the street for a few mins a day and all he wants to do is lay down. I would hate to hurt his heart with too much excerption. Is it possible for him to have a heart attack from that?

He's on no medication at the moment - only metacam for his pain when he really needs it...

[Sheridan]

Thanks so much everyone - I will definitely look into every suggestion! His oxalate stones are an entirely different thing to his kidney disease - he has both. That is why I have been under such strict instructions not to give him certain foods. (most of all meats, legumes and sweet potato... and carrot and spinach). I am willing to try anything to help him out though... He's such a lovely boy and he just looks like he's in so much pain all the time. This morning he could not get out of bed to toilet because his joints were so sore... My husband is going out today to buy us some scales so we can start to weigh his food instead of measuring it...

I'm sure this will all become much easier in the near future as he has only been living with us for a few days so far and I am not used to caring for a dog like him yet... My other dogs were entirely different as we were dealing with behavioral problems due to neglect and abuse... Elroy is the sweetest little boy in the whole world and looking at him in so much pain is so sad...

I have tried to read as much as I possibly can on the internet re weight loss etc and am going to try and find a good vet (we live in a small town with only 2 vets who are both great, but def. not holistic).

I believe that his weight is the biggest issue to tackle first as it directly affects all of his other problems. If I had to categorise him, I would say he's morbidly obese... And he has a heart murmur which the vet said will probably be his downfall. My family has been trying to get him to lose weight unsuccessfully for years, but I am 110% determined to finally succeed!

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes old dogs to actually lose weight? In my mind he really needs to lose 5kgs, but at 13 I am not entirely sure if that is possible?

Does slight exercise help a great deal in the process of losing weight for dogs as it does with humans? (Please excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question, as none of my dogs have ever been overweight and I really dont know a lot about it?)

Also, one more small bit of info... He's visited 4 vets to date re his condition who all diagnosed him the same... He will be visiting his 5th vet soon for a check up and another opinion...

BDog, my dog is nearly 13 years old but he is very fit and strong and can run rings around me. His weight, when we were having some feeding and medication (cortisone) issues, went up to 24 kg. He's now about 20.5 kg. I would like him to lose perhaps another 1-2 kg to get to an ideal weight. He's a middling size terrier. I feed him tuna or sardines (both in springwater) and a couple of premium kibbles. Kidney diets can be tricky things, particularly if complicated by something else. The important thing with kidney disease is that you have to keep the dog eating and drinking. It will be an entirely different disease (as your dog is not losing weight and not a wheaten terrier), but I lost my last wheaten to a kidney disease and once he stopped eating, that was it. Please also check with the vet about the medications as most dogs I know who have had a kidney disease get on a raft of meds rather than just one. The holistic vet sounds good!

Brilliant! Thank you so much for that link!

I can see how much his weight is affecting his mobility - at times he can barely stand... He gets very swollen in the mornings and evenings especially and for me, he NEEDS to lose weight because I just hate to see him struggle like that!

I was actually wondering about the joint guard etc... My 3 yr old rescue girl is on it due to her abuse in her past... She will develop bad arthritis in the future... I thought I should wait and spk to the vet first before giving it to him?

I would love to get him to be doing exercise as much as he can but the last thing I wast to do is over-excerpt him. So far we have been strolling around the grass on the front of the street for a few mins a day and all he wants to do is lay down. I would hate to hurt his heart with too much excerption. Is it possible for him to have a heart attack from that?

He's on no medication at the moment - only metacam for his pain when he really needs it...

You'll need to ensure that something like Joint Guard isn't going to affect his stone or heart murmur or kidneys.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Sheridan

[BDog]

Thanks so much everyone - I will definitely look into every suggestion! His oxalate stones are an entirely different thing to his kidney disease - he has both. That is why I have been under such strict instructions not to give him certain foods. (most of all meats, legumes and sweet potato... and carrot and spinach). I am willing to try anything to help him out though... He's such a lovely boy and he just looks like he's in so much pain all the time. This morning he could not get out of bed to toilet because his joints were so sore... My husband is going out today to buy us some scales so we can start to weigh his food instead of measuring it...

I'm sure this will all become much easier in the near future as he has only been living with us for a few days so far and I am not used to caring for a dog like him yet... My other dogs were entirely different as we were dealing with behavioral problems due to neglect and abuse... Elroy is the sweetest little boy in the whole world and looking at him in so much pain is so sad...

I have tried to read as much as I possibly can on the internet re weight loss etc and am going to try and find a good vet (we live in a small town with only 2 vets who are both great, but def. not holistic).

I believe that his weight is the biggest issue to tackle first as it directly affects all of his other problems. If I had to categorise him, I would say he's morbidly obese... And he has a heart murmur which the vet said will probably be his downfall. My family has been trying to get him to lose weight unsuccessfully for years, but I am 110% determined to finally succeed!

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes old dogs to actually lose weight? In my mind he really needs to lose 5kgs, but at 13 I am not entirely sure if that is possible?

Does slight exercise help a great deal in the process of losing weight for dogs as it does with humans? (Please excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question, as none of my dogs have ever been overweight and I really dont know a lot about it?)

Also, one more small bit of info... He's visited 4 vets to date re his condition who all diagnosed him the same... He will be visiting his 5th vet soon for a check up and another opinion...

BDog, my dog is nearly 13 years old but he is very fit and strong and can run rings around me. His weight, when we were having some feeding and medication (cortisone) issues, went up to 24 kg. He's now about 20.5 kg. I would like him to lose perhaps another 1-2 kg to get to an ideal weight. He's a middling size terrier. I feed him tuna or sardines (both in springwater) and a couple of premium kibbles. Kidney diets can be tricky things, particularly if complicated by something else. The important thing with kidney disease is that you have to keep the dog eating and drinking. It will be an entirely different disease (as your dog is not losing weight and not a wheaten terrier), but I lost my last wheaten to a kidney disease and once he stopped eating, that was it. Please also check with the vet about the medications as most dogs I know who have had a kidney disease get on a raft of meds rather than just one. The holistic vet sounds good!

Brilliant! Thank you so much for that link!

I can see how much his weight is affecting his mobility - at times he can barely stand... He gets very swollen in the mornings and evenings especially and for me, he NEEDS to lose weight because I just hate to see him struggle like that!

I was actually wondering about the joint guard etc... My 3 yr old rescue girl is on it due to her abuse in her past... She will develop bad arthritis in the future... I thought I should wait and spk to the vet first before giving it to him?

I would love to get him to be doing exercise as much as he can but the last thing I wast to do is over-excerpt him. So far we have been strolling around the grass on the front of the street for a few mins a day and all he wants to do is lay down. I would hate to hurt his heart with too much excerption. Is it possible for him to have a heart attack from that?

He's on no medication at the moment - only metacam for his pain when he really needs it...

You'll need to ensure that something like Joint Guard isn't going to affect his stone or heart murmur or kidneys.

Thank you so much for this advice! I am not 100% sure why he's on no meds, I would have assumed that he would have been? From what I know, my dads vet (who i have a personal dislike for) said that meds wouldnt do a lot for him this far along. I think I disagree with her and am going to get another opinion. I am not 100% sure what the other 3 vets have said about him in regards to medication. You have given me hope that it is possible for him to lose the weight! Roughly how long did it take your dog to drop those kilos?

Re the joint guard - that is exactly why I wanted to check with the new vet first - The last thing I would want is to cause him any more pain. Thank you again so much, you are being so helpful!

[Sheridan]

BDog, my dog lost those kilos over a number of months. I suppose atm it's a wait and see thing for you!

[BDog]

BDog, my dog lost those kilos over a number of months. I suppose atm it's a wait and see thing for you!

yep i guess it will be.. I was weighed him and will weigh him once a week and record his progress! I am so excited to finally (hopefully) he able to help him!

[dogbesotted]

Poor old man.

he really does need to loose weight.. that is no good for his heart, his kidneys or his arthritis.

I also recommed a consult with the holistic vets mentioned.. ( I am a happy client fo theirs. they are wonderful and sensible.) complementary medicine can and does assist with quality of life and can slow down the progression of some disease.. but always keep both the regular vet and the holsitic vet updated on what is being administered etc. ( barbara and my vet would talk.)

Making up his food allowance for the day first up and then using that for a few snak meals durting the day and treats is the best way to ensure that he is getting the right amount and qwuality of food.

The I would also be looking at getting his thyroid levels tested..well worth it. All to often I have had a vet say that they did not think that poor thyroid levels were the problem when the tests came back there was indeed a problem.

Altho he is a senior with health issues he is still capable of adjusting to change, loosing weight and beginning some gentle exercise. I also feel that all his meds need to be reevaluated to ensure that they are not combining o make a problem for him.

Cheers

Helen

[BDog]

Poor old man.

he really does need to loose weight.. that is no good for his heart, his kidneys or his arthritis.

I also recommed a consult with the holistic vets mentioned.. ( I am a happy client fo theirs. they are wonderful and sensible.) complementary medicine can and does assist with quality of life and can slow down the progression of some disease.. but always keep both the regular vet and the holsitic vet updated on what is being administered etc. ( barbara and my vet would talk.)

Making up his food allowance for the day first up and then using that for a few snak meals durting the day and treats is the best way to ensure that he is getting the right amount and qwuality of food.

The I would also be looking at getting his thyroid levels tested..well worth it. All to often I have had a vet say that they did not think that poor thyroid levels were the problem when the tests came back there was indeed a problem.

Altho he is a senior with health issues he is still capable of adjusting to change, loosing weight and beginning some gentle exercise. I also feel that all his meds need to be reevaluated to ensure that they are not combining o make a problem for him.

Cheers

Helen

Thanks for that info! When a dog has a thyroid problem, what exactly does it mean for his overall health. I dont know a lot about the thyroid other than it causes weight gain. Can it be fixed?

[dogbesotted]

the thyroid is a busy little gland.. the hormones it manufactures - the thyroid hormones - are vital for the good functioning of the body in so many diverse ways.. skin, coat, healthy eyes and ears, good circulation, hypothyroid dogs often have high colesterol concentrations in their blood and fatty lipomas, they can have brittle fur, have greasy skin, a huge appetite and thirst, lethargy behaviopural changes, agressaion or snappyness and on and on it goes.... depending on what is causing the problem hypothyroid condition has different causes ie low T4 production straightforward treatment with a thyroid supplementtwice daily for life is an easy and cheap treatment, but if it is all caused by for example autoimmune thyroiditis the solutions can be more difficult, on the high end of the scale cushings disease also bring problems but that is another story.

here is a link with a good overview:

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/Hypothyroid.html

also I should add that having had three dogs with a thyroid problem and known a dear friend who had a dog with cushings and being all too aware of the long period of time before they weretested I now jump up and down about it LOL.

cheers

H

[BDog]

the thyroid is a busy little gland.. the hormones it manufactures - the thyroid hormones - are vital for the good functioning of the body in so many diverse ways.. skin, coat, healthy eyes and ears, good circulation, hypothyroid dogs often have high colesterol concentrations in their blood and fatty lipomas, they can have brittle fur, have greasy skin, a huge appetite and thirst, lethargy behaviopural changes, agressaion or snappyness and on and on it goes.... depending on what is causing the problem hypothyroid condition has different causes ie low T4 production straightforward treatment with a thyroid supplementtwice daily for life is an easy and cheap treatment, but if it is all caused by for example autoimmune thyroiditis the solutions can be more difficult, on the high end of the scale cushings disease also bring problems but that is another story.

here is a link with a good overview:

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/Hypothyroid.html

also I should add that having had three dogs with a thyroid problem and known a dear friend who had a dog with cushings and being all too aware of the long period of time before they weretested I now jump up and down about it LOL.

cheers

H

hmm i didnt realise the thyroid helped function all those parts! I am going to definitely have his thyroid checked as he has excessive thirst, appetite, his ears and eyes have stopped "cleaning themselves"and more...

[Sheridan]

the thyroid is a busy little gland.. the hormones it manufactures - the thyroid hormones - are vital for the good functioning of the body in so many diverse ways.. skin, coat, healthy eyes and ears, good circulation, hypothyroid dogs often have high colesterol concentrations in their blood and fatty lipomas, they can have brittle fur, have greasy skin, a huge appetite and thirst, lethargy behaviopural changes, agressaion or snappyness and on and on it goes.... depending on what is causing the problem hypothyroid condition has different causes ie low T4 production straightforward treatment with a thyroid supplementtwice daily for life is an easy and cheap treatment, but if it is all caused by for example autoimmune thyroiditis the solutions can be more difficult, on the high end of the scale cushings disease also bring problems but that is another story.

here is a link with a good overview:

http://www.newmanveterinary.com/Hypothyroid.html

also I should add that having had three dogs with a thyroid problem and known a dear friend who had a dog with cushings and being all too aware of the long period of time before they weretested I now jump up and down about it LOL.

cheers

H

hmm i didnt realise the thyroid helped function all those parts! I am going to definitely have his thyroid checked as he has excessive thirst, appetite, his ears and eyes have stopped "cleaning themselves"and more...

Hmmm, indeed. Perhaps also suggest that the vet take a look at Cushings and test for diabetes.

I got my dog's thyroid tested earlier this year because he was having sudden bouts of aggression. Thyroid was fine, though (turned out he's just a Grumpy Old Man).

Edited December 2, 2008 by Sheridan