Fevah Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Heya. Had a bit of a lapse over the holidays with the doggles, so am trying to remedy that. Remy and Jacques know some basic obedience but I would love to work with them further. I started doing agility with Remy last year but over the last few months I have observed both pups closely and methinks Remy would be suited better to obedience and Jacques to agility (Example: He loves leaping. Remy will jump off the bed carefully, whereas Jacques launches himself into the air with much glee). The Koolie girls need obedience training (they are quite stubborn). Preferably seperately because they seem obsessed with each other. Agility or Flyball could be fun too. Now, does anyone know any decent clubs near Glenelg? (I'm willing to travel a fair amount, but not excessively, say up to Gawler because I already have to waste 1 1/2 hours each day getting to and from the school I work at). I am a part of Agility SA down at West Beach but I feel they are good with medium to large sized breeds but don't have enough time for the toy breeds. So the Koolie girls could possibly work there on Thursdays. My only exceptions are that I have basketball on Monday nights and study Maths on Wednesday night. A weekend morning doing obedience would be nice. Any ideas, o DOLers of great doggy knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ness knows about most of the Clubs in SA- PM her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) I'm also keen to find this info. Live in Glenelg too. I have a 1year old male who, although not too bad, does require obedience. He's medium size, around 20kg. We spend a lot of time at the dog park on Oaklands road but that's just for ;) ;) :D ;) And the humans there are pretty cool too! Edited March 4, 2009 by wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colliepaws Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well, I'm certainly no DOLer of great doggy knowledge! But for what it's worth I've started at the Holdfast Dog Centre at Hove with Luka and am really enjoying it. They run Saturday morning obedience (and Monday nights but that won't work for you ) and also agility on Tuesday nights I think? Check out their website here and see what you think....Maybe I'll see you there sometime soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well, I'm certainly no DOLer of great doggy knowledge! But for what it's worth I've started at the Holdfast Dog Centre at Hove with Luka and am really enjoying it. They run Saturday morning obedience (and Monday nights but that won't work for you ) and also agility on Tuesday nights I think?Check out their website here and see what you think....Maybe I'll see you there sometime soon! Close to Glenelg they would be my best suggestion as well. They run a wide range of classes including agility. However they are not a "trial" club but a pet dog club so you may find later on you want to go somewhere else to do ring work and more precision tuff but they will certainly give you a very good grounding. Some of their instructors have competed in both obedience and agility so know what is required for these disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 We did our puppy classes at Holdfast and they were great. Unfortunately my dog was not suitable for the style of obedience they advocate. I have a Terrier who is not food driven and he thought the 'total positive training structures' gave him the complete right to disrupt the classes for the entire session. Totally ignoring bad/naughty behaivour, not being able to say 'no' or 'settle' well, my dog thought he was in heaven and turned into a hoon whilst his mum on the other end of the lead turned a blind eye The only advice the trainers could give me was to have him desexed but he was still a baby . I decided to call it quits, it just was not working for us and I'm sure they were happy we didn't continue. We have since sorted out a lot of his naughtyness (except for today) and I thought of trying the Dover Gardens Dog Club. Is anyone familiar with this club? Sorry to hijack your thread Fevah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I heard there was a serious dog attack at Dover obedience last Sunday. I certainly wouldn't be in any hurry to attend there (not just because of that). Edited March 6, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 here is a list of all clubs in SA http://www.dogssa.com.au/Website/index.php...&page=clubs maybe contact them and ask about their training methods. i agree wire, my dog did not do well with food based positive training. i also don't like it as i want the dog to behave and do as i want because i have asked her not because i have a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have already replied to Fevah via PM on my thoughts on clubs. Jaxx Buddy - lets just clarify something positive reinforcement training isn't just about the dog working for a treat. In fact I would go so far as to say that from the dedicated positive clubs (Holdfast, Aldinga, CBS) you would get a much better understanding on the appropriate use of rewards then you would from most of the traditional clubs. Yes you might use food or a reward to get the dog to understand but where you fall into problems is if you rely on that for too long. Once the dog understands the behavior required then you don't have to reward it all the time (or even use food). Its a bit like the slot machine concept you teach a behavior but once its learned random reinforcement keeps the behavior strong - random in both type of reward (food, toy, life reward such as going to the park, being let off a lead to play) as well as frequency. As for wire and not being allowed to say no or settle. I haven't done a class at Holdfast in a while but one of the things that is emphasised at CBS is having the dogs being able to settle calmly on a mat (well the mat is used in the begining) but later being able to settle when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Jaxx Buddy - lets just clarify something positive reinforcement training isn't just about the dog working for a treat. In fact I would go so far as to say that from the dedicated positive clubs (Holdfast, Aldinga, CBS) you would get a much better understanding on the appropriate use of rewards then you would from most of the traditional clubs. Yes you might use food or a reward to get the dog to understand but where you fall into problems is if you rely on that for too long. Once the dog understands the behavior required then you don't have to reward it all the time (or even use food). Its a bit like the slot machine concept you teach a behavior but once its learned random reinforcement keeps the behavior strong - random in both type of reward (food, toy, life reward such as going to the park, being let off a lead to play) as well as frequency. this has not been my experience. if it was as you described then i wouldn't have a problem. whilst my dog loves food, under distraction she is not interested in it so this method doesn't work for her. however, i went to obedience classes and all i was asked to do was give more food!!! maybe it was just this particular trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 here is a list of all clubs in SAhttp://www.dogssa.com.au/Website/index.php...&page=clubs maybe contact them and ask about their training methods. i agree wire, my dog did not do well with food based positive training. i also don't like it as i want the dog to behave and do as i want because i have asked her not because i have a treat. I will agree with what Ness said on this. Food is a training AID. People tend to rely on it as a crutch for too long and yes then the dog will learn to wait for treat to be presented. All of my current dogs have been taught using +r and clicker work, none of them rely on a treat to perform a known behaviour on cue. Food should rapidly be reduced as a lure (1 CGC instructor I worked with allowed people to lure for a new behaviour for 1 lesson only, by the end of the lesson she would have them fading that lure. Initially I thought she was mad but quickly saw in majority of cases dogs had a much higher level of compliance than those who continued to lure for weeks on end) and move quickly to treat stage and then randomised. Random rewards (both in frequency and type of reward) give a stronger response so all of mine also receive non food rewards from early on as well as food of differing values - they will work as eagerly in a training session for a piece of kibble as for a piece of roast chicken as for a tug toy or a ball. And will also perform multiple repetitions of known behaviours for nothing at all other than the chance of a reward. Note I say known behaviours - when training a new behaviour it is heavily reinforced, that is not lure but treat presented after behaviour has been completed. As soon as I am getting a reliable response (80 - 90% or greater) to the cue then we move to a random schedule of reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Yep Piper we have been told lure for 5 max if you bother luring at all. I don't tend to. Having said that I will often work my youngster with a toy in my hand because the enthusiasm doesn't diminish when its not there just because its quicker to reward. A well known UK competitors said to me once she will quite often use food in her hand during training so long as the dogs attitude doesn't diminish when the food isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Ness, thanks for that bit of info re Dover. The thing is, I really liked the guys and set up at Holdfast. He would occasionally be put into day care there and had a great time but I was 'sort of' told off for not taking him in earlier in the day....my pup barked too much....but Karen, the key player there was fantastic. I am not into 'punishing' my dog but he does at times need to be told or he will take the advantage. Trying to get him to settle calmly on the mat was totally impossible. Having said all this, my dog knows what he is meant to do but unless I give him 'the evil eye' he'll try to slip it past me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fevah Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ness, thanks for that bit of info re Dover.The thing is, I really liked the guys and set up at Holdfast. He would occasionally be put into day care there and had a great time but I was 'sort of' told off for not taking him in earlier in the day....my pup barked too much....but Karen, the key player there was fantastic. I am not into 'punishing' my dog but he does at times need to be told or he will take the advantage. Trying to get him to settle calmly on the mat was totally impossible. Having said all this, my dog knows what he is meant to do but unless I give him 'the evil eye' he'll try to slip it past me. I did the course at Holdfast with Remy. I found it overpriced and boring (so did Remy). He never could settle on the mat either, he was in his 'teenage' stage and also we did it at night so it was cold for him (but he doesn't like wearing clothes either). So most of the time he would be shivering on my lap, I would be shivering on my plastic chair and we both would be bored, bored, bored. 80 bucks for 8 weeks as opposed to 50 bucks for a whole year at an agility club once a week...big difference isn't it? Ultimately with ness' help this is what I've decided to do - watch pro DVD's on basic obedience and foundation agility and then take dogs to random places for about 15 minutes per day for training. I think a lot of us believe we aren't capable of training our dogs ourselves, but I believe with a bit of guidance anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay. Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I go to Southern Districts Kennel & Obedience Club in Morphhet Vale... Its a really good club, we have agility & obedience... On sunday mornings beginners agility starts at 11 Obedience starts at all different times on sunday but from around 10 i think... thats when my class is any way! Also obed and jumping on wednesday nites. It's about 25 mins from Glenelg according to my mum lol Just let me know what u think.. If ur interested i can give u more info!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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