Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Troy

Samoyed

483 posts in this topic

Bindii   

I'm just answering some of the questions that i think i know - some are assumptions but i make that clear in my answers.

Do most breeders test for this? Pretty sure most ethical breeders in victoria do.

How do you know breeders test for this? Do you go on face value or is there some paper proof? I got the gribbles pathology report when i picked Fletcher up as a puppy, his animal id on the report is his microchip number. It is dated 17/3/09, i picked him up at 8 weeks on the 21/3/09.

Is it really all that common within the breed? I was told that there were a few cases over a period of about 10 years. (most breeders in victoria use the same Vet and all agreed that testing puppies would be a good idea)

Is it hereditary? If it is, is there any proof, or is hereditary just something just to blame it on? If there were a few noted cases in the the one breed, in the one area (victoria, so a chance of similar lineage) and it is there from birth would that make it hereditary? (honest question, but i think it does so i'm going to continue answering as though it is hereditary)

Can something else cause this problem? Generally portosystemic liver shunts become noticed at about 6 or before 12 months of age but have been there from birth. I'm not sure if liver shunts can be caused from anything else but the ones that they are testing for are congenital - aka, there from birth.

How do you test for Liver Shunts? Bile acids are tested from two blood serum tests, a fasted test, then given food, and tested two hours after food. According to the gribbles report - bile acids must be <9 umol/L for the fasted test and <31 umol/L 2 hours after food.

What age do you test? Fletcher was tested at 7.5 weeks old, but i guess it could be at any age. As close to 8 weeks old would be best, i assume, because pups need to be fasted (most fasted tests are for no food for 12 hours).

Is there a Samoyed register that these dogs go onto? Not sure but it would be a good idea. I'm also curious as to what happens when they find a pup at 8 weeks that does have one, are parents continued to be bred from? Or would breeders only stop using the dam/sire when there is more than one case and risk passing on the (recessive) gene until they find another pup.

Edited by Bindii

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hope you don't mind me answering these questions I have a sibe who had a liver shunt so it has been a steep learning curve for me.

What is liver shunts?

A liver shunt (also known as portosystemic shunt or PSS) is when a blood vessel bypasses the liver so that blood does not get filtered by the liver, the two main types are congenital (from birth) and acquired which often arise as a side effect often due to some other liver problem. My boy had a congenital shunt which means that the shunt which normally exists in all dogs in the foetus failed to close after birth.

What are the symptoms?

The symptoms can vary greatly but the most general symptom is failure to thrive, my boy was very underweight, was often off his food and had intermittent periods of diahorrea and vomiting, at around six months he started showing neurological symptoms of pacing and headpressing which escalated rapidly to coma and seizures.

Do most breeders test for this?

I didn't come across references to Samoyeds in the papers I read at the time so I conclude that it's either not a widespread problem or it's a recent thing, hopefully some sammy people can elaborate further :thumbsup:

Re testing the mode of inheritance isn't clear as far as I am aware so in the breeds where it is a problem the pups are tested and affected pups are PTS, I would assume that ethical breeders would rethink repeating the pairing in those breeds where inheritance is suspected.

How do you know breeders test for this? Do you go on face value or is there some paper proof?

It would be possible to get test results for individual pups it is a simple blood test.

What other breeds are know to have this problem?

In my research the breeds most often found to have this problem were Irish Wolfhounds, Yorkshire Terriers and Maltese, there were other breeds as well but these are the ones with the most data available to my knowledge.

Is it hereditary? If it is, is there any proof, or is hereditary just something just to blame it on?

In some breeds it is generally accepted to be hereditary due to the high incidences of it but as the mode of inheritance is unknown (or at least it was when I was reading about it) it is difficult to isolate and it is believed there are a number of genes involved. It is also believed to be something that can occur as a simple developmental defect without necessarily a genetic component so you would have to look at incidences in the breed to decide whether it is a genetic problem.

Can something else cause this problem?

As above it can be a developmental disorder, acquired shunts can occur due to liver disease etc.

How do you test for Liver Shunts?

Usually a blood test for liver function is the normal procedure to test for a liver shunt at the early stage, if tests show a shunt is suspected the patient is usually referred to a specialist for ultrasound diagnosis to determine the location and type of shunt.

What age do you test?

I think breeders can test at around 6 weeks onwards.

Can it be cured?

Depending on the type of shunt, medical and dietary management can reduce symptoms but the only way to cure a shunt is to operate and physically close the blood vessel and redirect the blood back via the liver. Very costly and risky whichever way you go.

Another important factor to note is that there are two different types of congenital shunt, intrahepatic and extrahepatic, intrahepatic means that the shunt is located inside the liver and as such is much more difficult to surgically fix than extrahepatic which is located outside the liver. Intrahepatic shunts are more commonly found in larger dogs while extrahepatic are more common to the smaller dogs.

My boy's intrahepatic shunt was surgically repaired at around 10 months of age and is now 3y/o and is completely free of symptoms :thanks:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bindii   
Hope you don't mind me answering these questions I have a sibe who had a liver shunt so it has been a steep learning curve for me.

No, thank you! And i'm sorry to here about your sibe... :thanks:

I would assume that ethical breeders would rethink repeating the pairing in those breeds where inheritance is suspected.

I hope so too!

My boy's intrahepatic shunt was surgically repaired at around 10 months of age and is now 3y/o and is completely free of symptoms :wave:

Rrrrayyyyy!! :thumbsup: That's so good to hear!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rrrrayyyyy!! :) That's so good to hear!

Thanks :eek: It is great having a healthy dog after all those dramas I wouldn't wish it on any person or pup either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Icemist   

Hi,

Im back from computer problems (both work and at home) and being away on the weekend.

Thanks for everyone putting up information about liver shunts. My family and I have been in Samoyeds since the mid 70's, you still keep learning.

Thanks tkay for popping on board, you are welcome here anytime, and it good to hear you boy has done well after his op. It must have been a tough time you went through.

It is really good learning about the good things and problems within the breed we have and others.

I am very sceptical on whether shunt's are heriditary. One reason is that if we can not put a direct finger on a problem, 'it must be heriditary'.

Too many problems within many breeds that vets and so called experts can not figure out, the problems become heritary.

Is there only one in a litter or many breed from those parents?

How did Liver Shuts start! Who disciovered it?

What was the first dog to have one?

What were the circumstances behind that dog? Behind the parents? Inadicaute (spelling) poor feeding for example. the same with this generations dogs.

Enviromentalism.

How were the pups brought up?

Maybe a problem within the mothers milk?

Too many questions. Too many question to me to say it is heridiarty.

The more I find out about them, the more I think it is a developmental problem within pups, and it is maybe just a problem that will pop up, but I am no expert. I have very little knowledge about this subject, or other breeds with this particular problem.

But at the time being, I don't think this does not seem to be a lare factor in the Samoyed as it is with a lot of other breeds, not that we should close our eyes to it. It is something that we do need to keep an eye on.

But I do think it would be worth to have a register within our breed of Sammies who have these problems. This should be kept by the Australian Sammy Controlling body (not sure of the name - who looks after the national shows) to keep an eye on.

My two cents worth...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys

I'm looking at purchasing a Samoyed in the next couple of weeks and have found this website very helpful!

Any advice you could offer me? I am a first time dog owner but have my heart set on a Samoyed - yes, i did actually contemplate a cross (designer??) breed, but fortunately I saw the light!

Does anyone know much about the various breeders? I have been in talks with Janoby Kennels as they have two litters ready to go in November.

Thanks in advance!

Julie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Icemist   
Hi guys

I'm looking at purchasing a Samoyed in the next couple of weeks and have found this website very helpful!

Any advice you could offer me? I am a first time dog owner but have my heart set on a Samoyed - yes, i did actually contemplate a cross (designer??) breed, but fortunately I saw the light!

Does anyone know much about the various breeders? I have been in talks with Janoby Kennels as they have two litters ready to go in November.

Thanks in advance!

Julie

Hi Julie,

Welcome to the forums.

A Samoyed is a wonderful dog and a great companion.

If you want to contact me on my email, [email protected]

I can give you some more details on the breed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bjelkier   
Hi guys

I'm looking at purchasing a Samoyed in the next couple of weeks and have found this website very helpful!

Any advice you could offer me? I am a first time dog owner but have my heart set on a Samoyed - yes, i did actually contemplate a cross (designer??) breed, but fortunately I saw the light!

Does anyone know much about the various breeders? I have been in talks with Janoby Kennels as they have two litters ready to go in November.

Thanks in advance!

Julie

Well choosing a Samoyed clearly shows how intelligent you are :clap:

Seriously though they are an amazing breed.

Icemist will give you heaps of help, lord knows he has helped me out :clap:

Feel free to pop into the spitz thread, there are a few of us SAmmie owners in there and heaps of pics.

If you can think of anything to ask please do so.

And goodluck with your future pup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just took the plunge and after much debating over the past week, I picked out my little boy - he will be here on Thursday, cant wait :rainbowbridge:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bjelkier   
I just took the plunge and after much debating over the past week, I picked out my little boy - he will be here on Thursday, cant wait :thumbsup:

Thats wonderful, don't forget to introduce him in the spitz thread and photos are a must!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Icemist   
I just took the plunge and after much debating over the past week, I picked out my little boy - he will be here on Thursday, cant wait :)

Congratulations on taking the plunge. You will have to put photos up for us to see your little boy.

Any name picked out for him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just took the plunge and after much debating over the past week, I picked out my little boy - he will be here on Thursday, cant wait :happydance:

Congratulations on taking the plunge. You will have to put photos up for us to see your little boy.

Any name picked out for him?

5 days in and things are going great (touch wood)

We decided to call him Baccus and have been getting mixed reactions to that :happydance: but he responded to it almost instantly (unlike my cats....) and is very placid (the best way we can describe him). he loves nothing more than to sit back and take it all in for now.

Will try and upload a couple of pics - first is from the breeder and another couple taken on a mobile phone (definitely need to get the camera out and take more before he grows anymore)

post-31783-1257251423.jpg

post-31783-1257251826_thumb.jpg

post-31783-1257251594_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bindii   

I really like the name!

Who is he from?

Edited by Bindii

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He is just devine!!! :p :laugh:

I really like the name!

Who is he from?

Thanks, I really like the name too - I was tossing up between Nanuq or Baccus and decided on the later!!

I bought him from Peter Hill of Samloch Samoyeds and he has the best temperament (I can only compare him to my previous housemates Staffy tho! lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too bought a Sammy recently..

Best decision ever, I love the little guy he is such a good dog and I must say the breed is fantastic...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I too bought a Sammy recently..

Best decision ever, I love the little guy he is such a good dog and I must say the breed is fantastic...

Congrats finalflash!

I definitely am glad I picked a sammy, he's utterly gorgeous and so mild mannered! We are currently working through our obedience training, and seems to be going ok so far!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI All,

I have a 3yo male Samoyed called Simba. He is soo gorgeous. I have included a photo.

I love your photo Icemist. :)

My Sammy is my baby.

XxToughgirlXx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×