Raw/natural Chitchat

[trifecta]

I have a question regarding ratios of Raw to Weight I have 3 dogs 1 40+ kg German Shepherd, a Belgian Shepherd Groenendael who I am trying to keep weight on as she is soooo active, and a White Swiss Shepherd puppy. I am looking at changing to raw but just can't figure out how much to feed.

Also how do you know your doing it right

It depends entirely upon the metabolism of the dog, some are good doers & will do well on seemingly little food, others, particularly entires, need much more.

I have fed raw for 26 years, before it became fashionable, upon the advice of a holistic vet who was a colleague of Ian Billinghurst who had just published his first book. The four dogs I owned at that time all lived to good ages, BC x Kelpie 17 years, LSC German Shepherd 15 years & two Belgian litter sisters who died within three months of each other at 14 years of age.

I actually knew little about raw feeding compared to what I know now - the dogs never got liver, they din't like it! What I am saying is feeding raw should not be stressful..... feed to weight, give them what you think they should eat & adjust down the track if they are too fat or too thin. Your Belgian is only a young dog..... if I remember correctly? My bet is she will furnish into a nice dog with maturity (I'm thinking around the age of four) but as young dogs they can be very lean. Remember the Belgian Shepherd is a working dog, think about the short coat BCs & Kelpies you see working sheep - many people think they are emaciated, but they can work all day & not knock up. However, if you think she really could do with some more weight then brisket bones have always been a good way to stack on some weight.

I have always fed a wide variety of meats, but lamb, kangaroo, chicken & rabbit are favourites..... the size of prey most dogs would handle, a little raw fish (Atlantic Salmon heads & spine bones), a variety of veges (but not the solanum family) & fruits. I give supplements, not as a matter of course, but when I think an individual would benefit. At different tmes of the year I add different herbs, eg clivers in Spring to promote healthy new coat.

I have tweaked my raw diet over the years & the dogs are now on more of a prey model diet. I have found a good source of small chickens (size 11s) for a good price & can buy wild rabbits for $6 each. My guys now get liver twice a week & lamb kidneys once per week. I no longer have the time to frig around juicing veges & fruits so I feed VAN three times a week. I have also looked at Augustine Approved & it looks very sound to me. At the moment I want to keep my feeding regime simple, my mother is elderly & I may have to take off to UK at the drop of a hat - I want to be able to leave at short notice & know that OH can look after all our animals with the minimum of fuss.

This has turned into a long post, but the upshot is, most people can eat healthily without analysing & calculating every nutrient - we can feed our dogs in the same way, feed a varied diet & feed to the way they look. :)

[Scottsmum]

This has turned into a long post, but the upshot is, most people can eat healthily without analysing & calculating every nutrient - we can feed our dogs in the same way, feed a varied diet & feed to the way they look. :)

So nice to actually see someone type that out - I have read a lot of blogs and forum posts (probably not as many as others but a lot) and there is SO much emphasis on "unbalancing meals" - I was chatting to hubby about it last night.

Feels like this is the first time I;ve actually read someone say that :)

[icebergblitz]

Hooo, okay! I read through the first seventeen pages (skip to the end, impatience :laugh:) and feel like I've learnt a teency tiny bit...

I'm interested in feeding raw. My partner and I just adopted a one year old 36kg Bullarab cross, his last weigh in was the 8th of April so I'm going to get him weighed again soon to see where he's at. I personally think he looks a little underweight (can see his ribcage under his coat) so would I be correct in saying I would need to feed him at 3% of his bodyweight just to put more condition on him?

Do the ratios still sit at 80/10/10 if I'm feeding at 3% or does it change, my maths is terrible!

We have a Lenards near us and have just ordered 10kg of their minced chicken frames which we are picking up on Thursday. He currently gets a cup of Optimum Puppy kibble in the morning and 1kg human grade chicken mince per night, this is what his foster carers were feeding him to put a but more weight on him, which it seemed to.

I have read that commercial food as well as raw chicken mince fed together can potebtially cause Salmonella poisoning because of the rate at which they differ in digestion...any truth to this?

So much learning and reading to do!

[trifecta]

icebergblitz, can you cancel that order? You would be better off feeding whole chickens to a dog of that size, then the ratio of meat to bone is perfect. Stick a small piece of offal in the cavity & you have the perfect meal.

Both of my dogs are desexed so I feed more like 2% but I am not obsessive about figures; some days I feed more in quantity than others, but it largely depends upon the individual & if they are a good doer or not.

Beef brisket bones are excellent for putting weight on a dog & you should try to feed a wide variety of meats.

I would be getting rid of the kibble, too.

Don't be afraid to experiment.... & as I said earlier.... feed to looks, don't be obsessed with weighing the dog, you should be able to see & feel if condition is right.

EFS!

Edited May 18, 2014 by trifecta

[mfch]

I never found this hard before but with my standard poodle puppy now on a raw diet too I have some questions ...

so I have a 13 week old standard poodle who currently weighs 8kg and a nearly 3yo miniature poodle who weighs 6.4kg.

The puppy is a bottomless pit.

This is his current daily diet-

6.30am when he gets up he has either 1/2 a cup of homemade food, 1/2 a Big Dog BARF patty or 1 can of pink salmon with a scrambled egg and ricotta cheese.

9am-10am- both dogs go outside with their bones- either he gets two chicken wings or one larger lamb or beef bone

2pm- he sometimes has a snack- either a kong filled with some meat or maybe some greek yogurt with honey or a chicken wing

6pm- dinner- he gets 1 cup of homemade dog food or one full Big Dog BARF patty- he much prefers my homemade food. The mini gets 1/2 a cup.

My homemade mix is:

1kg of chicken or beef mince

2 veg- either grated carrot, grated apple/celery/zucchini whatever is in the fridge

1tbsp of coconut oil

2tbsp of flax seed oil

chia seeds

2 eggs (sometimes just yolks if I have made egg white omelette for me which I do quite a bit) including ground up shells

honey for taste

sometimes I throw in some brown rice or rolled oats but I am trying to cut down on grains.

They LOVE my food and generally that much lasts about four days in between the two of them- the puppy already eats a lot more than the mini. I try to make them have BARF two or three nights a week because it has the liver and offal etc and kelp and saves me having to add those things.

My main question I guess is should my puppy always be hungry? He wolfs down everything I give him and loves eating dawn til dusk- more of a labrador than any poodle I've ever known! He is well covered and gaining weight very well but he's my first big dog so I stress that he's not getting enough ... I feel like he's eating a LOT but then i have gone from toy poodles and a miniature- a big puppy is a bit different.

Does all of that sound alright to you guys?

[persephone]

when you say 1kg mince and 2 veg ..is that 2 kg veg?

[mfch]

No sorry, two vegetables- generally it will be one carrot and one apple, or one zucchini and a couple of stalks of celery. Definitely not 2kg!!!

[Ranga]

Just thought I'd bump this up again :)

I've worked my way through the whole 49 pages!

It's all very interesting reading, but I'm still a fence sitter ... I feed raw and a little kibble. I occasionally have to leave my dogs in kennels and it's much easier if I can give them their home made food and kibble. Kennels won't allow bones

[juice]

I should have looked in this thread first

Trifecta, I'm thinking of doing this...

Keep using the minced roo ,( chicken mince for dally) as main meal , and then add livers to 2 meals a week, kidneys to another one, and use only a small portion of vans instead of half and half like now.

Also adding fish here and there, and their usual drumstick for brekky.

I do give any veggies I have left over aswell.

I havn't seen any kidneys yet, just livers and hearts, are hearts ok ?

[gila]

I'm getting wild rabbit for Spence! My brother is going hunting with his friends tomorrow and he's gonna bring back some rabbit. Only the legs though. He's never gutted a rabbit and after googling some instructions he's decided it's too difficult and traumatic lol. He thinks he can manage taking the legs off, so that's better than nothing. I'm excited!

[Ranga]

I'm getting wild rabbit for Spence! My brother is going hunting with his friends tomorrow and he's gonna bring back some rabbit. Only the legs though. He's never gutted a rabbit and after googling some instructions he's decided it's too difficult and traumatic lol. He thinks he can manage taking the legs off, so that's better than nothing. I'm excited!

You could give the WHOLE rabbit with goodies intact

[gila]

Yeah I thought that, but doesn't it have to be frozen for a few weeks to kill any parasites? Everything I've read says the rabbit should be gutted before freezing because thawing it out again with guts in speeds up decomp or something

[Ranga]

I don't know gila, I'll bow to others knowledge. I do know our labrador used to catch live leverets (baby hares) and by the time she had 'retrieved' them they somehow had disappeared down her throat It certainly didn't cause her any problems :)

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ranga

[gila]

Yes, if its eaten fresh guts in is fine. But my brother is going hunting/camping over the weekend and won't be back until Sunday night. He'll have an esky with ice, but I don't know if that'll be enough to stop decomp if guts are left in. I think he should just man up and gut the rabbits :laugh:

[VizslaMomma]

I should have looked in this thread first

Trifecta, I'm thinking of doing this...

Keep using the minced roo ,( chicken mince for dally) as main meal , and then add livers to 2 meals a week, kidneys to another one, and use only a small portion of vans instead of half and half like now.

Also adding fish here and there, and their usual drumstick for brekky.

I do give any veggies I have left over aswell.

I havn't seen any kidneys yet, just livers and hearts, are hearts ok ?

Yonjuro did mention ( I think it was him) that he feeds hearts. I read recently in regards to them that the hearts get sliced and frozen for serving....

I'm loving this thread too, juice. Heaps of info for me.

[juice]

well I started to add a little liver last night , sliced it up and froze it in portions. both poops this morning a little softer, normally firm, so will miss the liver tonight and add every other to start with.

I gave them hearts a few days ago with no probs.

Typically Woollies had lots of liver and kidneys the other day, but wasn't sure which to buy then, yesterday they had none when I wanted some :laugh:

im going to add eggs to a couple of meals, and fish so each day isn't the same.

[VizslaMomma]

Have to say I am truly enjoying the frim poops!

Horrible Herbert seems brighter too.

10 months today so a photo shoot later.

:)

[Yonjuro]

well I started to add a little liver last night , sliced it up and froze it in portions. both poops this morning a little softer, normally firm, so will miss the liver tonight and add every other to start with.I gave them hearts a few days ago with no probs.Typically Woollies had lots of liver and kidneys the other day, but wasn't sure which to buy then, yesterday they had none when I wanted some :laugh: im going to add eggs to a couple of meals, and fish so each day isn't the same.

This loose stool could be just from the newness of adding liver or if there is no bone to balance out the meal. I am not sure if there was bone in the meal so I am only guessing :)

Have to say I am truly enjoying the frim poops!Horrible Herbert seems brighter too.10 months today so a photo shoot later. :)

Looking forward to seeing some pics - not of the poop though :D

Edited September 13, 2014 by Yonjuro

[juice]

They all get a drumstick for brekky, which I was counting on covering the bone ratio.

[Yonjuro]

They all get a drumstick for brekky, which I was counting on covering the bone ratio.

It should cover it, maybe add the liver at brekky with the drumstick