Diva Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I found it interesting that breeder knowledge prevailed over veterinary knowledge even for such a serious problem. You don't necessarily have to be a breeder either, just breed knowledge will sometimes do. Just one experience of many - I had a 10 year old bitch I was pretty sure had bone cancer - her breed, her age, the site of the pain, all pointed to it. Vet swore black and blue she had done a cruciate ligament and laughed, literally, at the suggestion of cancer. He was so certain I overcame my own convictions and let him operate to repair the cruciate - I wanted him to be right. Sadly of course he wasn't, Borzoi aren't known for cruciate injuries, but they are known for osteosarcoma. Diagnosing a Borzoi pup with ED and possibly HD is huge in terms of rarity in the breed, but this vet seems to have leapt to it. I'm too polite to say what I think of that, let alone the vaccination issue. Edited November 26, 2009 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Then you get boarding facilities and dog training facilities that won't accept dogs unless they have had C5 - you can't win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Then you get boarding facilities and dog training facilities that won't accept dogs unless they have had C5 - you can't win And that's the problem isn't it I've managed to avoid the kennels for the last couple of years and so I have also avoided having my two older dogs vaccinated. However, I know they won't accept my dogs into their kennel unless I have their vaccinations updated (which I'm not keen to do). So unless you can find alternative care for your dogs when needed there really is no choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Then you get boarding facilities and dog training facilities that won't accept dogs unless they have had C5 - you can't win so true. now i choose not to go to dog training because of the C5 requirement. this is where we come unstuck. i wonder if they would accept titre testing and if this can be done in Aus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 There are boarding kennels and training clubs that accept titre tests instead of C5s - you just have to be diligent searching for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) Just curious to know whether you ended up actually getting a positive diagnosis for a hygroma? I'm just going to play devils advocate here for a sec. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, but just offering a different way to look at it. The vet saw the dog for an elbow swelling. It's not incompetent to consider ED - it is a possiblity. It might not be common in the breed and may never have been seen, but its not something you can completely rule out because of this. It might make it unlikely, but not 100% impossible. Same with the hips. The vet thought there was pain in the hips, so suggested x-rays. I didn't read anywhere that the vet diagnosed ED and HD, but merely suggested it as something to rule out? It seems to be the new ways of a lot of the newer grads, to want to "rule out" every possiblity. Perhaps this vet thought they were just being thorough, wanting to make sure it wasn't that? What if by some freak chance, it had of been that, but the vet disregarded the idea simply based on the breed? They would be done for incompetence then, for not suggesting as a possiblity and catching it early. I personally wouldn't have thought a hygroma would be all that common in such a young dog, even if it is a larger breed puppy. Having a go at the vet nurse for not being able to spell the dogs breed is a little unfair. I have often had to look up the correct spelling for a breed of dog or cat that I haven't encountered before. I'm a nurse - not a spelling bee champion! Anyways, like I said, just a different point of view Edited November 27, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) I'm just going to play devils advocate here for a sec. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said, but just offering a different way to look at it.The vet saw the dog for an elbow swelling. It's not incompetent to consider ED - it is a possiblity. It might not be common in the breed and may never have been seen, but its not something you can completely rule out because of this. It might make it unlikely, but not 100% impossible. Same with the hips. The vet thought there was pain in the hips, so suggested x-rays. I didn't read anywhere that the vet diagnosed ED and HD, but merely suggested it as something to rule out? It seems to be the new ways of a lot of the newer grads, to want to "rule out" every possiblity. Perhaps this vet thought they were just being thorough, wanting to make sure it wasn't that? He didn't talk about ruling it out at all. He saw the xray as merely confirmation to how bad it was. He was already talking surgery (though not by himself, but another surgeon). I am getting in contact with another vet who owns pharaoh hounds, i'd be more comfortable with someone who knows sighthounds to get a second opinion. I honestly think he had discomfort from how the vet checked because of how he put pressure on the limbs. he didn't yelp, just didn't like it. Also for the level of damage the vet was talking about, Oberon should be lame in some way. He shows no sign of lameness, This afternoon we couldn't stop him from doing zoomies, he went nuts. jumping, leaping. Here is a link to images of hygromas http://www.dogleggs.com/files/hygroma3.cfm I personally wouldn't have thought a hygroma would be all that common in such a young dog, even if it is a larger breed puppy. there is a pic of a 12 week old weimaraner on the site. and here is a pic of Oberons leg. oh and a pic of my 'lame' dog in full bolt after a tasty leg. and a happy shot, don't want people to think he's sad And i appreciate you playing devils advocate. Its true it could still be ED, but not likely, i will get it checked out. Edited November 27, 2009 by pixie_meg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninahartland Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Aaw ! Gorgeous pics pixiemeg, what a beautiful boy he is ! Looks like a hygroma to me...my wolfhound had them on both elbows when he was a pup and having never had a dog before with them it was very worrying ! The advice I got from vets and breeder was to leave them and they eventually go away themselves (which is what happened as he matured ). To drain them just creates a site for infection and there's no guarantee they won't return ! You just have to put up with people asking 'what are those big lumps on your dogs legs ' all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Aaw ! Gorgeous pics pixiemeg, what a beautiful boy he is !Looks like a hygroma to me...my wolfhound had them on both elbows when he was a pup and having never had a dog before with them it was very worrying ! The advice I got from vets and breeder was to leave them and they eventually go away themselves (which is what happened as he matured ). To drain them just creates a site for infection and there's no guarantee they won't return ! You just have to put up with people asking 'what are those big lumps on your dogs legs ' all the time how long did it take to go away? Did you just get him to sit on soft surfaces all the time? Oberon will sit on soft surfaces but seems to prefer hard floors. He also prefers to lie on the hygroma side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninahartland Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Took a fair while to go away...I just noticed them getting smaller and smaller as he matured . If I remember rightly one of the vets that saw him said if I left them they'd go on their own by the time he was about 2... and he was right. Very hard to get them to lie on soft things though, especially this weather where the tiles are the coolest thing around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 what about making some sort of elbow pad? we've got some at our clinic that a previous nurse made, that are just foam with velcow. I think one of them has a bit of bandage attached too, so it can be wrapped around to help keep it in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Took a fair while to go away...I just noticed them getting smaller and smaller as he matured . If I remember rightly one of the vets that saw him said if I left them they'd go on their own by the time he was about 2... and he was right.Very hard to get them to lie on soft things though, especially this weather where the tiles are the coolest thing around happy to report the lump is significantly down today. what about making some sort of elbow pad? we've got some at our clinic that a previous nurse made, that are just foam with velcow. I think one of them has a bit of bandage attached too, so it can be wrapped around to help keep it in place I've been thinking about this the last few days. will see if it continues to go down quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Great news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 At this rate it will be gone by tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 it didn't go away but i did go get a second opinion on the ED suspicion. bit of a cross post. The verdict is he must have fallen and hurt his elbowat some point then the bursa became inflamed. He's on anti inflammatories and has a bandage he needs to wear for 3 weeks. He cant walk well as the bandage is like a splint so he is such a sook. But such good news that this vet does not think its ED. She did a really good look over of him (which the other vet didn't) and checked his hips, no problem. She also said he's not skinny like the other vet said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Great to hear that it's not ED. Awesome news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 That sounds very promising. It wouldn't suprise me if he did fall, young large breed puppy is very unco-ordinated at a young age, couple that with the fact they just have to do mad zoomies and you have crashing puppies! Hope it heals quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Don't bash yourself up - any vet that gives a C5 to an 11 week old pup should be strung up IMNSHO. Crikey when I picked up my Chihuahua pup at 12 weeks old, according to his vax card he'd just been given a C8!!!! I was a bit shocked. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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