ozwildflower Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is nothing wrong with breeding from a CEA carrier. So long as she is only bred to DNA normal partners her puppies will never be affected. Still not something that a "prospective" breeder should be taking on initially and most CERTAINLY not considering that the "prospective" breeder could cause Tuscamada untold issues if they aren't playing fair. And given the current climate, the past "Greyshaft" case and many other factors....in my eyes, placing it safe is the wisest course of action. I have been involved with the develpoment of DNA tests in my breed for over 15 years and also happen to be a close friend of the breeder involved in the Greyshaft case so know far more about DNA testing than most breeders. The breeder in the Greyshaft case won the court case eventually because at the time there was no DNA test available and she had no way of knowing the problem might exist. She was just very unlucky to sell a puppy to the most unreasonable person on the planet. Since then we have had a DNA test developed for TNS to make sure this never happens to another breeder. CEA is very rarely fatal, and is no big deal. The majority of affected dogs do not even have any sight defects but a very small proportion do. The Collie and Sheltie breeders are still breeding with affected dogs and doing carrier/carrier matings because they simply do not have enough clinically or DNA normal dogs to do otherwise. BCs have the highest DNA testing rate and for CEA approx 20% of the breed are carriers worldwide. Eliminating 20% of the gene pool would be ridiculous but we are lucky enough to be in a position to have the numbers that allow us to always breed with one parent DNA normal to avoid having any more affected puppies. I believe the Aussies probably have a similar percentage of carriers to the BCs. The Collies and Shelties are many years and generations away from being in this position. There is no problem with any prospective breeder taking on a "carrier" provided the fact that the dog is a carrier and what this entails is declared in writing. For me the bigger question here is why would the OP be getting rid of an otherwise lovely bitch just because she is a CEA carrier? The other person being me was just wanting to place her in a loving family home as that is what I do with my older girls once I have had litters from them as I believe they should have the chance on a one on one family situation instead of a kennel dog all there lives. Seems I have opened a can of worms here and that I might have to sell them her anyway if that is the law here in SA, the lady seems like a nice person when I talk to her. Would you not normally have an older girl, who has had her quota of pups, spayed? Did you tell the prospective buyers that you were selling them a whole bitch? If you never said anything about selling them a breeding bitch, but a 'pet only' - then there should be no problem. Get her de-sexed first, then place her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laneka Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is the reason I never take deposits. It allows either party to pull out. Much safer way. I also believe it allows the puppy buyer to change their mind and not take a pup they really did not want. Better for the pup. Re your girl, I would get her desexed before she went to her new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Any mature dog that leaves this house(and I have to admit there haven’t been many) is desexed prior to placement as do most breeders I know. An easy solution to your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 That is why I was looking to rehome her as she is a carrier and has produced carrier pups, such a shame as she is a lovely bitch and silly me believed the yearly and baby eye tests which are supposed tp pick this up, the pups also passed there baby eye tests !!! Sorry Tuscamada, but this post gave me the impression that you were only looking to rehome her because she turned out to be a carrier. If she is being rehomed because you think she has already contributed enough to the breed then have her speyed before she goes. If you have already promised the buyer an entire bitch that they can breed from, then you may not have that option. Most breeders I know keep their retired bitches but the few who do rehome them always spey them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lolapalooza* Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I would just spay the bitch and give the deposit back....what can a court do? Make you put the uterus back in????? If you explain exactly why you dont want her bred from in writing and a 'reasonable' 'responsible' person should understand as would SACA/ a court. Hopefully she understands and will take her spayed and provide a nice forever home for your girl. Off Topic: I met a guy who works at the RSPCA who has 2 AMerican Bulldogs that were at the RSPCA they were apparently not put up for rehome due to the 'breed' so he took them home ....and bred them I was at his house and met the dogs who had lovely temperaments....but just shows you that surprisingly not everyone who works at RSPCA thinks like we might think they do (unfortunately) not sure why they were allowed to leave the RSPCA entire either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springdog Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Was the deposit taken before or after the prospective owner mentioned about having a litter from her? If the deposit was taken before she mentioned about breeding from her then I would advise her that she was not for sale to be bred from. Personally I would spey her and place on the limited register. Hope all works out for you and your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuscamada Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 The deposit was taken before she mentioned maybe wanting to breed from her. I have been in contact with her and explained everything and she is going to wait for a puppy from my next litter and I will be getting her desexed if I decide to place her again but for the moment she is staying here. Thank you all for your input . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hi all I need some input on pulling the plug on the sale of a dog when they have paid a deposit?? were do I stand ? I would give them the deposit back of course, just have a bad feeling about the whole thing. They could take it further if they wanted to. They don't need a written contract. They have paid a consideration "deposit" on a promise of a particular dog. It doesn't matter what was said AFTER the deposit was taken. You'd probably be o.k. if the person left a deposit on any pup from a litter but she/he has left a deposit on a particular dog. Best of luck with it all. I don't do the deposit thing. Way to much trouble, even with older dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I have been involved with the develpoment of DNA tests in my breed for over 15 years and also happen to be a close friend of the breeder involved in the Greyshaft case so know far more about DNA testing than most breeders. The breeder in the Greyshaft case won the court case eventually because at the time there was no DNA test available and she had no way of knowing the problem might exist. She was just very unlucky to sell a puppy to the most unreasonable person on the planet. Since then we have had a DNA test developed for TNS to make sure this never happens to another breeder. I often wondered what happened about that. Thanks for bringing us up to date. Greyshaft - *shudder* Unfortunately, there are buyers like that, and I constantly pray one wont find me. If only people understood that most of us do our best, and are happy to work with us for an equitable and fair outcome, there would be fewer problems. I would have thought the fact that Greyshaft did not return the pup would have been sufficient defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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