Rain Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I understand and agree with you Libertybrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 There are photos from National Speciality show Dmitrov 2011 http://www.chernish.ru/photo/index.php?gallery=20110528 BRT in atack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 lovely breed and I havent met one with a bad temp yet. Maybe we should have this thread renamed to Russian Black Terrier along with ANKC guidelines????? Now I see why i get confused over the name, using initials I always say RBT (as that is how the breed is known in the UK) but using full name i often say black russian (but then that is also vodka and coke! lol ) Anyway, the reason I am here in this thread today. I have just homed a pup with a family who have an RBT which is black and silver, a colour which appears sometimes in Giant Schnauzers, so it got me wondering does anyone know what colour/breeding for the GS used in the development of the RBT? I have come across the names DASSO & DITTER v.DRANHENSHLUCHT but have no further info on them, I have also seen a dog called ROY was used, but again no more info on him. Can anyone fill in the blanks or point me to a website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 http://www.brtinfo.ru/dog.php?screen=1&userif=2&id=86 http://brtinfo.ru/dog.php?screen=1&id=699&ifid=2 http://brtinfo.ru/dog.php?screen=1&id=358&ifid=2 becks, what kind of information are you looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thank you for your links. I was just wondering where ther black and silver colouring (ie where the silver phantom markings) came from, that the RBT I saw photos of the other day has. Is it from the GS as they can be born b/s occasionally or it is a corruption of the black and tan dogs behind the RBT? Are RBT born any other non recognised colours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The one who lives near me is this colour http://brtinfo.ru/dog.php?screen=1&userif=2&id=15808 black with marks is how it is described on that database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) Few months ago there was a very hot discussion on Russian forum about a dog with the same color. The question was is it black and silver color or black and tan? As I remember most of the breeders said this is black and tan color. I can find that topic and double check for you but I need few days to do this. There are many non recognised colors in BRT- blue, gray, white, black and tan, airdale's color, sable. Sometimes they can be like this Edited July 6, 2011 by vesper12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 this is the same dog at age 6 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) Edited July 7, 2011 by vesper12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Vesper12, that is a truly gorgeous pup that grew into a completely stunning dog! I may have to move the RBT/BRT up in the list of dog breeds being considered for my next dog! ChristineX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 ChristineX :D But remember this dog is not recognised color. BRT can be only black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineX Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I know, but i am flexible enough to enjoy and appreciate them all! Christinex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hi, What age do you start show grooming a puppy for the show ring where you are sissoring and clipping them. I was looking at the guide you posted on grooming vesper12 it is very good. Are puppies taken into the show ring in puppy coat at all? Do you use a conditioner on their coat after shampooing them? Do you use a coat spray before entering the show ring? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertybrook Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi Rain, I know with my babies have clippered off their "baby coat tips" only on their body with a comb attached so as not to go too short,t evens up the length, I didnt clipper their legs or tails, I have lightly scissored their legs & tails, shaved under their necks, shaved their ears and bottoms with a No 10 blade, they have been getting bathed and blow dried since 6 weeks old, I started show grooming at 8 weeks, you can use a coat spray, just remember baby coats can be difficult and tend to be soft, lol, ;) and all over the place so dont expect a baby to look like an adult coat, remember their adult coat can take up to 2+ years to come through properly and hold its shape. some people take their babies in the ring still in full coat, in baby class I dont think it matters too much, but I like to tidy them up and also it gets them used to having all this done so when they are older and bigger and stronger, they wont fidget or even blink when you have fiddle about with them, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thank you Libertybrook, you are most helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Few months ago there was a very hot discussion on Russian forum about a dog with the same color. The question was is it black and silver color or black and tan? As I remember most of the breeders said this is black and tan color. I can find that topic and double check for you but I need few days to do this. There are many non recognised colors in BRT- blue, gray, white, black and tan, airdale's color, sable. Sometimes they can be like this There is a black and silver gene in Giant Schnauzers, so it could well be a b/s - which is thought to be a variant of the black/tan gene. b/s puppies are born with markings varying from a very dark brown/black through to creamy white, the darker markings turning into a silver and the cream puppy turning into a white marking. Was there a reason that the other colours were ruled out of the breed? With such a strong working background, I would have thought most of those colours would have been fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Using of conditioner depends on type of coat and are you preparing dog for show or not. If coat is quiet coarse you do not need to use conditioner at all. Some dogs have very coarse coat, this coat is very easy for taking care about it, but for show it is quiet difficult coat and sometimes groomers and breeders use conditioner before show to make coat more softer ( easier for show grooming). For the most of the dogs it is recommended to use mask before bath and use conditioner after bath when you groom dog between shows. When you prepare dog for show do not use conditioner on body, only on legs and beard. Was there a reason that the other colours were ruled out of the breed? With such a strong working background, I would have thought most of those colours would have been fine? becks now it is quiet complicated. One of the problem is in the name of breed, black and tan Black Russian Terrier sounds funny, isn't it? And the biggest question is what to do with black puppies from two black and tan ( for example) parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 You get solid black from black n tan parents? With shnauzers, if you mate b/s to b/s you can only get b/s (unless there is white behind each parent), you can't get solid black pups. If it is just becuase of the name, surely they could drop the 'black' part? I've always wondered why they have 'terrier' in the name as they don't seem to have terrier characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesper12 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Yes you can get solid black pups from black and tan parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Black Russian Terrier ANKC Standard(from http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=162 ) Group: Group 6 (Utility) General Appearance: The size of the Black Russian Terriers is a larger than an average dog. Black Russian Terriers are strong, with massive bone structure and well-developed muscles. The skin is tight and elastic, without any folds or dewlap. Dogs of this breed are assertive, wary of strangers and resistant; they adjust easily to different climates. The Black Russian Terrier must yield to training. Physical Appearance, Sturdy and robust. Faults - Light frame, poorly developed muscle tone. Serious Faults - Very light bone structure, weak muscle tone, frail and weak constitution. Index of Format (Important Proportions), The proportion of the length of the body to the height at the withers is between 100-105% of the height at the withers. [i.e. Square to slightly longer in body] Fault , The length of the body is slightly too long if it is between 106-108% of the height. Serious Fault - The length of the body is clearly too long if it is in excess of 108% of the height. Characteristics: Related to Sex , Should be clearly expressed, depending on the sex. Male dogs are of greater size [more imposing size], more masculine and more massive [stronger] than bitches. Faults - Minor reversal of the required sexual characteristics. Serious Faults - Marked reversal of sexual characteristics. Bitchy dogs. Utilisation - F.C.I. Classification - Group 2 Pinscher & Schnauzer type. Temperament: Extremely energetic [vigorous], strong, stable temperament but very lively, with strong defence reactions. Faults - Shyness, excessive excitability, passiveness [laziness]. Serious Faults - Fearful, extremely excitable, extremely passive. Head And Skull: Long with moderately narrow skull with well rounded cheekbones. The forehead is flat. The stop is marked but not too pronounced. The muzzle is parallel with the topline of the skull. The muzzle is strong, slightly tapering. The length of the muzzle is slightly less than the length of the skull. The moustache and the beard give the muzzle a truncated and square appearance. The lips are thick and full. The upper lip fits tightly to the line of the lower jaw without forming flews [without looseness]. Faults Head too small, forehead rounded, stop hardly marked or excessively pronounced, protruding cheekbones, soft lips. Major Faults Coarse head, too light or too heavy, rounded head; muzzle short, pointed or turned up. Eyes: Small, oval shaped, slanted, dark in colour. Faults Large eyes or eye colour not sufficiently dark. Visible third eyelid. Major Faults Light eye, cross eyed. Ears: Attached high on the head, hanging straight down from the base, small and triangular in shape. The front rim of the ear hangs down against the cheekbones. Faults Ears set too low; long ears, flying ears, ears held apart from the cheekbones. Major Faults Ears standing up from the base, semi-erect ears. Mouth: Teeth strong and white in colour, closely positioned. The incisors are positioned in one line; scissor bite. Faults - Poorly developed teeth, teeth not corresponding with age, damaged teeth which do not interfere with the proper occlusion of the bite. Absence of up to two of the first premolars or absence of one of the first premolars and one of the second premolars. Light tartar build-up. Major Faults, Very small teeth, missing teeth; incisors not aligned; any deviation from a scissors bite; absence of an incisor or a canine; absence of a third or fourth premolar or any molar. Teeth with severely damaged enamel. Neck: Long, powerful, lean, set at a 40-45 degree angle to the topline. Faults - Short neck, blocky neck, showing a dewlap or held low. Forequarters: Seen from the front, the legs are straight and parallel. The angle of the shoulder-blade with the upper arm is approximately 110 degrees. Elbows must point backwards. The upper arms are short and strong. The pasterns are short and straight. Faults - Shoulders slightly too straight, elbows turned slightly in or out; Weak pasterns, turned in or out. Major Faults - Upright shoulders; strong deviation of the elbows in or out; forearm not straight, knuckling over, down on pasterns. Body: Chest Roomy, deep, with well sprung ribs, reaching to the level of the elbows or slightly below . Faults - Chest not sufficiently wide, chest not reaching the elbows, ribcage slightly flat. Major Faults - Barrel shaped ribcage, too wide, not enough let down, flat or narrow. Withers - High, clearly marked above the topline Faults - Low, poorly developed withers. Back - Straight, wide and muscular. Faults - Weak, narrow or insufficiently muscled. Loins - Short, wide, muscular and slightly arched. Faults - Long, insufficiently arched. Major Faults - Badly coupled, narrow or too arched. Rump - Wide, muscular, with a barely visible slope towards the tail. Faults - Horizontal or slightly sloping rump, insufficiently muscled. Major Faults - Clearly sloping or narrow rump. Abdomen - Rising above the lower line of the chest. Faults - Strongly tucked-up or whippet-like abdomen. Hindquarters: Seen from behind, the legs are straight and parallel, but set slightly wider apart than the front legs. The upper thighs are muscular and well developed. The lower thighs are long and set obliquely. The hock joints are lean and well developed. Rear pasterns strong, long and almost vertical. Faults - Weak muscle tone, short thighs, slightly cow or bow hocked. Angulation of the hock joint too slight or too strong. Major Faults - The same as above but more pronounced. Rump too high. Hock joint angulation decidedly straight or over angulated. Feet: Fore and Hind Thick, with well arched pads, rounded in shape. Faults - Hare feet. Feet pointing in or out. Major Faults - Splayed or very turned out feet. Tail: Set high, thick and docked short, leaving 3 to 4 vertebrae Faults: Tail set low, incorrectly docked tail Gait/Movement: Easy, harmonious and effortless A short [non overreaching] trot or gallop are the most typical gaits. When trotting, the legs must move in a straight line, with the front legs converging slightly towards a median line. The back and loin have an elastic, springy movement. Faults - Legs not moving in a straight line. Insufficient extension of the front or hind legs. Major Faults - Restricted or clumsy movement. Sideways movement of the hindlegs (crab-like), marked swinging of the croup (rolling movement of the hindquarters), pacing. Coat: Rough, hard, ample and extremely dense. The seemingly broken coat is between 4-10 cm [1.6- 3.9 in]in length and covers the entire body. On the muzzle, the coat forms a rough, brushy moustache on the upper lip and a beard on the lower lip. Above the eyes, the eyebrows are rough and bristled. On the neck and the withers, the coat is longer and forms a mane. The forelegs, down to the elbows, and the hindlegs, down to the thighs, are covered by a rough and long coat. The undercoat is dense and well-developed. Faults - Straight hair, not broken. Wavy hair, soft hair, hair longer than 10 cm [3.9 in] Insufficient formation of moustache, beard or eyebrows. Frizzy hair. Major Faults - Hair too long (in excess of 15 cm [5.9 in], soft hair, falling hair, short hair, smooth hair; absence of furnishings on head or legs. Colour: Black or black with grey hairs. Faults - Brown or grey shadings. Small white spot on chest. Major Faults - Brown or grey coat, reddish patches; white spots on chin, head, neck or legs. Sizes: Height at the withers Dogs 66 , 72 cm [25.7- 28.1 in] Bitches 64 , 70 cm [25- 27.3 ins] Faults - Slightly leggy or short on the legs. Height at withers of dogs below 66 cm [25.7 in] or above 72 cm [28.1 in] Height at withers of bitches below 64 cm [25 in]or above 70 cm [27.3 in] Major Faults - Rump set too high or withers too low. Dogs Height at withers below 65 cm [25.4 in] or above 74 cm [28.9 in] Bitches Height at withers below 63 cm [24.6 in] or above 72 cm [28.1 in] Faults: Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog. DISQUALIFYING FAULTS Any deviation from the scissor bite Parti-coloured coat White markings on feet Red patches Grey coat Absence of an incisor or a canine tooth Absence of any PM3 or PM4 Absence of any molar. Notes: Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum. See Photos of the Black Russian Terrier QUESTIONS 1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? 3. How common is it in Australia? 4. What is the average lifespan? 5. What is the general temperament/personality? 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? 9. How much grooming is required? 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) If you wish to contribute to the knowledge about this breed, please answer the above questions. (Copy and paste them into a new post). Please only answer if you breed or own a pedigree example of this breed. You do not have to answer all questions Please keep posts limited to answering questions or for asking further questions if you require more (or expanded) information. See Photos of the Black Russian Terrier Black Russian Terrier Breeders Black Russian Terrier Puppies For Sale Hi Troy, I believe that the ANKC have changed the name to Russian Black Terrier. Dont' ask me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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