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Too Many Needles For Pets


PuggaWuggles
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My vets are still recommending yearly as apparently the said the don't think people will come in "just" for a yearly check up.

They will not sign off on a yearly vaccine for 3 years.

They will order in and sign off on a triennial vaccination for 3 years, but will not sign off on a off label use of their normal vaccine.

I have told them to order in a triennial vaccine for me. In the circumstances it is the best I can make of the situation

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I run a boarding kennel. I try not to be part of the problem by telling people of the change in recommended vaccination regimes and telling them I'll accept any date the vet signs off on . . . suggesting that three years would be in line with recommendations. Everyone seems happy to get the news, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone in with their vaccination cards signed with a 'next due' date of 2012 or 2013. I think vets are still sending out their annual reminders about vaccinations.

Good on you! My own vet is well aware of the over-vaccinating of dogs. But, for lots of people, it comes down to what boarding kennels will accept.

And most in my area seem to be sticking to insistence on annual.

So you're a breath of fresh air. Trouble is.....if an enlightened kennel like yours is booked out, in some circumstance, a dog owner is then faced with finding another which accepts the 3 yr sign-off.

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Sorry to be a pain, but I am still confused. From reading that, the Canine Cough vaccine (Bordtella) is *not* a core vaccine... so how is it covered by the three-yearly recommendation???

Not being a pain at all!

You're right, Kennel Cough is not a core vaccination and still needs to be done annually if you elect to have your dog vaccinated against it. So for example, our clients who still want the KC vaccine will come in annually for that vaccine, but only every 3 years for the C3. (the KC vaccines are seperate injections to the C3).

It's interesting isn't it, Sandgrubber. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on the AVA site that same recommendation - the KC injection/intranasal 2 weeks prior to boarding and that in fact the KC vaccine probably only really lasts 8 months.

Thanks for that. I can see where kennels are coming from - and since most kennels insist on a C5 (which I believe includes canine cough), then they probably think they may as well demand everything be done annually... otherwise you probably would need to produce two certificates - one for canine cough & one for the core vaccines.

My vet and kennels aren't yet accepting the three yearly vaccine (spoke to them a couple of months ago), but I think the new training club is open to the new protocol. If I didn't have to board, I would probably switch to three yearly, but until the kennels change, I'm stuck.

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They will order in and sign off on a triennial vaccination for 3 years, but will not sign off on a off label use of their normal vaccine.

My vet has said the same thing. I am still confused about the triennial vaccine though, as some information seems to suggest that it is just 3x the dose of the annual one - and I can't see the point of tripling the dose???? I am also concerned about the studies starting to suggest that over-vaccination is linked to auto-immune diseases. But I live in a high risk area for parvo, and I also foster rescue dogs, so I don't want to risk my dogs health. I am really torn as to what is the best thing for my dogs. My oldest dog is nearly 8 years old, and has had annual vaccinations for the last 5 years he has been with me, except for his last one which I stretched out to 18 months (and he was a racing greyhound before he came to me so would have been vaccinated annually before that). My dogs are all due again, I think I am happy to strecth it out to 18 months again, but am worried about leaving it any longer than that. Then again, I don't want my dogs to be at risk of auto-immune diseases if the vaccinations really aren't necessary *sigh*

Stormie, what area of Sydney is the practice you work at? I visit Sydney semi-regularly to see family, maybe I could organise a visit to your clinic :laugh:

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Daisy we are in Pennant Hills. But, if you are in a higher risk area, it would be something I'd want to think about before changing over. This concept kind of messes with my head a bit, because either the vaccine covers for 3 years or it doesn't, so why should it matter whether you are in a higher risk situation if your dogs have immunity? But, the AVA does say those in higher risk environments should consider staying with annuals.

Have you considered titre testing?

I just worked out how to configure RxWorks so that all our core vaccine certificates show coverage for 3 years! YAY!!! (don't laugh at me, I'm new to RwWorks!! :laugh: )

Edited by stormie
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This concept kind of messes with my head a bit, because either the vaccine covers for 3 years or it doesn't, so why should it matter whether you are in a higher risk situation if your dogs have immunity?

Mine too!!!

Edited by Daisy
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They will order in and sign off on a triennial vaccination for 3 years, but will not sign off on a off label use of their normal vaccine.

My vet has said the same thing. I am still confused about the triennial vaccine though, as some information seems to suggest that it is just 3x the dose of the annual one - and I can't see the point of tripling the dose????

Maybe stormie can help clear this one up. Ive also heard that a triennual vaccine like nobivac dhp contains over 3 times the amount of MLV particles compared to the old annual ones.

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They will order in and sign off on a triennial vaccination for 3 years, but will not sign off on a off label use of their normal vaccine.

My vet has said the same thing. I am still confused about the triennial vaccine though, as some information seems to suggest that it is just 3x the dose of the annual one - and I can't see the point of tripling the dose????

Maybe stormie can help clear this one up. Ive also heard that a triennual vaccine like nobivac dhp contains over 3 times the amount of MLV particles compared to the old annual ones.

yep that's right - for the parvo componant in particular. I posted up a brochure a few times, if you do a search for comparison with my username you should find it.

But, I don't know what the significance is between the amount of particles in the vaccines. The annual was 10 to the power of 5 and the new one 10 to the power of 7. so that's 100,000 compared to 10,000,000 particles. But this may be a really small difference for all I know, in the whole particles thing :laugh:

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My vets are still recommending yearly as apparently the said the don't think people will come in "just" for a yearly check up.

I'm so sick of this argument vets use.

I'm pretty sure we're not all so stupid we can't remember to get our dog a health check every now and then.

If they are going to argue against three year vacc, at least stop treating pet owners like mindless idiots.

They can still send out their reminders if they wish to....just um, type...HEALTH CHECK OR VACCINATION. Oh so hard, isn't it?

And really, those who now plan to never visit a vet again are not the kind who would go yearly ANYWAY.

Edited by Tess32
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My vets are still recommending yearly as apparently the said the don't think people will come in "just" for a yearly check up.

I'm so sick of this argument vets use.

I'm pretty sure we're not all so stupid we can't remember to get our dog a health check every now and then.

If they are going to argue against three year vacc, at least stop treating pet owners like mindless idiots.

They can still send out their reminders if they wish to....just um, type...HEALTH CHECK OR VACCINATION. Oh so hard, isn't it?

And really, those who now plan to never visit a vet again are not the kind who would go yearly ANYWAY.

Agree totally!

And also if they want the Canine cough and BB they will have to go yearly anyway.

My argument was well just send out reminders.

Their argument if they think their dog is okay then they won't come back and we will have lots of dogs that will not get their yearly PI2 and BB and have worse kennel cough doing the rounds than we do now.

My argument was those people that do the right thing now will keep doing the right thing!

Edited by Rommi n Lewis
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The big issue for me is kennels. Don't they legally have to require annual vaccinations or titre tests?

In WA we have no legal requirements that I know of. However, for reasons of liability and insurance coverage, I need to see that a vet has signed off on the vaccination due date. I don't feel that decisions relating to frequency of vaccination should be made by kennel owners -- that is a vet's function.

With respect to KC, it's complicated.

When K9 cough goes through a kennel some of the vaccinated dogs often get it while some of the unvaccinated (for KC) don't. I recommend, but stopped requiring KC in my kennels after having been told by a couple vets that they don't use it on their own dogs; not to mention having a litter of pups apparently get KC from the vaccine. Another vet I use told me that if you really want to protect your dog from KC, get it jabbed (or nasal puffed) two weeks before taking it to kennels. Last time I read the AVA recommendations they still recommend KC as an annual shot. I'm left shaking my head. But the disease is very rarely fatal, and in many cases it is so unserious that you barely notice the two or three days the dog has a mild cough. So the outcome of making a wrong decision isn't horrible.

I had 2 litters come down with KC at 8 weeks old when i had one of the adult dogs done with the intra nasal .Within 3 days of him having the vaccine all the dogs had it,2 developing pnuemonia despite being put on prophylactic AB'S straight away.

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The big issue for me is kennels. Don't they legally have to require annual vaccinations or titre tests?

. . . not to mention having a litter of pups apparently get KC from the vaccine.

I had 2 litters come down with KC at 8 weeks old when i had one of the adult dogs done with the intra nasal .Within 3 days of him having the vaccine all the dogs had it,2 developing pnuemonia despite being put on prophylactic AB'S straight away.

Sounds like the same batch of vaccine that got my dogs. None of my adults got it, but all the pups did, and they were sick for weeks . . . worse still, it hung around to get two subsequent litters of pups. If this happened with any of the jabs they give kids there would be hell to pay. I don't know how everyone is so blase' about quality control for dog vac's.

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Parainfluenza is the a viral component of kennel cough and Bordatella Brontiseptica is a bacterial component. The BB vaccine is to try and control the Bordatella component which is a complicating factor in kennel cough that can lead to pneumonia.

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