Dlanigervon Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Why is it not permisible to double handle a dog in tha Allbreeds Ring? Isn't the object of the show to present your dog to it's full potential? Why can't a dogs name be called to bring them to full alert? If a handler in the ring doesn't have a double handler, isn't that their problem? There are so many questions, but the answer is still the same, WHY NOT? And who controls or is in control of, WHY NOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 The name part is easy to answer, the name ( even a pet name ) identifies the exhibit. The animal should be known be sex, class and age only. If I said the name Freddy, Jason or Logan , I can bet there would be people who could put their hand up and identify the dogs. I've watched people in the ring say come on "xxxxx", when infact the dog hasn't been "xxxxx" it's been one of their youngsters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 If you need to present your dog to it's full potential in the All Breeds ring, why not simply train it. If a dog isn't responsive to handler cues and can't be exhibited to its potential without distraction from outside the ring, what does that say about the dog? A class of more than a few dogs being double handled resembles a circus more than a dog show IMO. It's certainly no fun for uninvolved spectators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadbury Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 A class of more than a few dogs being double handled resembles a circus more than a dog show IMO. It's certainly no fun for uninvolved spectators. That is your opinion It is a lot of fun watching a GSD specilaty without being involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 A class of more than a few dogs being double handled resembles a circus more than a dog show IMO. It's certainly no fun for uninvolved spectators. That is your opinion It is a lot of fun watching a GSD specilaty without being involved I have noticed, more often than not, a GSD Specialty is held at a different location to the main show. Must be disrupting someone for them to do this. Double handling works both ways, you can get your dogs attention while disadvantaging others. How is that fair?? You can say that a dog should be trained to ignore things outside the ring but then I would say that you can therefore train the dog to give expression in the same way. To the OP - WHY should Double Handling be allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Why can't a dogs name be called to bring them to full alert? Isn't that kind of obvious...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) I have noticed, more often than not, a GSD Specialty is held at a different location to the main show. Must be disrupting someone for them to do this.Double handling works both ways, you can get your dogs attention while disadvantaging others. How is that fair?? I'd say the biggest reason why GSD specialties are held in separate areas to other breeds is because the rings are much bigger What do you mean by double handling disadvantages others? Not something I've ever thought about or experienced Edited February 11, 2010 by ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) All Breeds is supposed to be one man and one dog, not a three ringed circus. Why, because that's the way the rules were written and if you don't want to play by them it's bad luck. I've seen some terrible examples of dogs being double handled in the all breeds ring over the years. If I've noticed it, the stewards have too and there have been some sent from ringside for doing it. ETA: double handling extends to standing on the outside of the ring with squeaky toys, the dogs favourite toy and being positioned in just the right spot to as to maintain the dogs focus and animation. Edited February 11, 2010 by SBT123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) I dont actually show yet i am currently showing vicariously through a mate lol i just found this post and was wondering what is double handling?? Sorry newbie question i know... Scrap that while i was writing this i saw ur post sorry guys To be sure is double handling just outside the ring?? so the handler in the ring can say the dogs name??? Edited February 11, 2010 by kirst_goldens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) A class of more than a few dogs being double handled resembles a circus more than a dog show IMO. It's certainly no fun for uninvolved spectators. That is your opinion It is a lot of fun watching a GSD specilaty without being involved Yes, it is my opinion. I have no interest in seeing such antics in the all breeds ring. Edited February 11, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 (edited) double handling means a lot of things to different people...in GSD rings, it's obvious, annoying, humorous and entertaining just to name a few things and I"ve been on the inside of the ring many times watching other doublers attempt to get their dogs to show correctly and with animation with use of bells, whistles, balls and squeeky toys, never mind running madly around the outside ring and yelling and screaming. I showed a GSD one time with his owner outside the ring sitting quietly on a chair 'reading' the catalogue. The young dog knew where his mom was and I kept whispering in his ear..."find mom....where's mom?" That was all he needed to keep those ears up and look around with attentiveness.....during movement, his mom quietly chirped from behind the catalogue as we turned the first corner, to which he responded by digging in and really stretching out as he looked for his 'mom'. He wasn't out of control or attempt to not go where he shouldn't..and each time we turned corner two, she did the same chirp and he dug in again....we went puppy in specialty show that day...no bells and whistles and squeekies and no one thought we double handled. I've double handled in the all breed ring simply by asking a friend who the dog knew well, to stand in one spot and quietly watch....I would whisper in the dogs ear...'where's your auntie XXXX' and the dog's attention level jumped....the person standing knew that if they saw the dog get fidgety or unfocused, they simply had to cough or sneeze or even just drop their catalogue and pick it up.....because I knew where they were, i would make sure the dog could catch sight of them...it was all that was needed...that's double handling. As well you can double in the ring off another dog and it works well many times as long as the other people are not bothered by it, which means good manners on the exhibitors part. If my dog feels that dog behind him/her is fascinating....I"ll let her/him turn and stare at it....often in my breeds case, tail wagging and rolling up on the toes, so just doesn't look much better than this...(was great in the terrier ring) Many times did I find myself in a ring with a Pinscher only to have a manchester walk by and the Pinscher stand up and stare.....no doubt wondering if that was 'our' manchester that came to the show that day.....used to happen when some would see Sammies (who were raised with the white fluffies) and again when I had a mob raised with Cresteds.... One time I was showing a Pinscher and he was totally fixed to something in the crowd..so much so EVERYONE including the judge saw it and tried to figure out what he was looking at...he was a statue....turns out it was a person with a toy manchester on their lap watching my ring.....we won the group that day...and yes I did thank the person with the MT for the win! that's double handling...intentional or not...many more stories of both I can list....if you want to double...just be smart and do it so you aren't looking like you are...it's not rocket science, just good handling skills and a team of people that also know how to read the dog that's in the ring. I want to add re: name calling....I usually don't use the dogs name in the ring, but mostly that's out of habit as a handler I often couldn't remember their names!! One time though (to turn this around a touch) I was showing at an invitational event...to be eligible you had to have an All breed Best in Show to go....showing my pinscher he was busy watching the dobes in the next ring to which the judge who wanted his attention on her, called out his name in the ring..yes he snapped his head forward..... Edited February 11, 2010 by angelsun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centitout Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Can you say the dogs name in the ring? I know it sounds stupid,but i wasnt aware you cant mention your dog by name if you are the handler in the ring . Can tell i havent shown a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Yes you can call the dog by name....and for puppies, I do...there are no rules stating you can not...only those wonderful 'urban myth' rules that many preach when showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 .Double handling works both ways, you can get your dogs attention while disadvantaging others. How is that fair?? I'd say the biggest reason why GSD specialties are held in separate areas to other breeds is because the rings are much bigger What do you mean by double handling disadvantages others? Not something I've ever thought about or experienced The ring size isnt a big issue BUT when people are running on the outside with bike honkers,cow bells,whistles,screaming & yelling then .Doing weird manuvourse in the corners & people running the outside ring faster than the dog i would say that is a big annoyance to anyone near by plus the announcing all day on either mega phone or PA placings & why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Thanks heaps Angelsun! wanted to be sure we werent doing the wrong thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyBeggs Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 If you can call the dogs name to get the dogs attention......why then can you not wear a name badge, kennel advertising on your clothing, another badge announcing your affiliation with the club and/or what trophies you donated and announce as you enter that the dog is a three times BISS winner...... why????, because its ment to be an impatial decision by the judge of those dogs on that day at that time. If you are in the ring and someone on the outside is calling the dog next to you......and the judge hears the dogs name and thinks....."Oh rover won BIS last weekend, I better award it BOB or I will looks silly" and then you are at a disadvantage because the judge has made a decision without really considering all that dogs on that day!! Typically, but not always, at specialty shows allowing double handling.......the judge is a specialist judge, maybe from overseas, and wouldn't know who Rover is from Fluffy so all the double handling outside the ring means nothing to the judge. Neither specialty showing or all breeds showing are perfect......you will still get incorrect, Lame or mismarked (etc) dogs winning when you think they shouldn't......... but both disciplines are not about to combine as this still wouldn't make the system perfect for everyone........maybe that is why there seems to be more and more people doing either all breeds OR specialty, Otherwise embrace the differences and enjoy doing both as 2 different sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Why is it not permisible to double handle a dog in tha Allbreeds Ring?Isn't the object of the show to present your dog to it's full potential? Why can't a dogs name be called to bring them to full alert? If a handler in the ring doesn't have a double handler, isn't that their problem? There are so many questions, but the answer is still the same, WHY NOT? And who controls or is in control of, WHY NOT? The answer to all of the above is easy training, From previous posts we now you dont attend All Breeds but you will see hundreds of dogs doing exactly the above without all the bells & whistles. My GSD didnt need to be double handled to do all that stuff,he did it because it was natural & the right handling . I have watched many GSD shows where the dogs are so over hyped legs are going in all directions & not displaying any of what the reason behind a big ring is. They say the big ring is used because there a movement dog & need that size to move. A correctly put together GSD should cover the ground with ease from the first step & just flow around the ring or what ever the sport it is herding, It is funny when some of the speciality people show All Breeds & all you can see are crazy GSD going berko as they have no idea how to function without some one calling in the corner.This doesnt show a functional GSD at its best. There are many GSD folk who do show at both & the dogs are trained to do both & are a picture to watch ' I enjoy Melb cup as on the day of champ show you also have GSD specialized judging & Belgian specialized judging & its amzing how another breed can get the same if not better results but quietly. The rotti speciality shows i have attended also do so way quieter than the GSD, I think the GSD folk have taken double handling to such a level that its getting to over board status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Megz- Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I have noticed, more often than not, a GSD Specialty is held at a different location to the main show. Must be disrupting someone for them to do this.Double handling works both ways, you can get your dogs attention while disadvantaging others. How is that fair?? I'd say the biggest reason why GSD specialties are held in separate areas to other breeds is because the rings are much bigger What do you mean by double handling disadvantages others? Not something I've ever thought about or experienced .Double handling works both ways, you can get your dogs attention while disadvantaging others. How is that fair?? I'd say the biggest reason why GSD specialties are held in separate areas to other breeds is because the rings are much bigger :D What do you mean by double handling disadvantages others? Not something I've ever thought about or experienced The ring size isnt a big issue BUT when people are running on the outside with bike honkers,cow bells,whistles,screaming & yelling then .Doing weird manuvourse in the corners & people running the outside ring faster than the dog i would say that is a big annoyance to anyone near by plus the announcing all day on either mega phone or PA placings & why. As showdog has answered already, some methods of double handling are very loud, distracting and thus could be disadvantaging to another dog. Our Constitution says that the use of squeek toys is not allowed - I witnessed an exhibitior being told so by another exhibitor before going in for a BIG line up. The squeek toy was this dogs tool for gaining expression however is very distracting for the dog behind who doesn't like squeek toys, thus the disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Well that's too bad isn't it, my dog might get distracted by the good the other handler is tossing up and down, if a toy worked for my dog I would take it in. I have seen many judges use toys to get expression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Above is supposed to say food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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