Council ‘kills’ Kids’ Puppy Dog

[poochmad]

I support Sheridan's suggestion of having a website that shows a picture of impounded animals. The Canberra council website is excellent in showing a photo of the dog and the area it was located.

Canberra Pound

I know that if our dogs got out they would be described as completely different breeds as they are an unknown breed. A lot of rangers know the common breeds, but few would know the rare or uncommon breeds.

Edited February 15, 2010 by poochmad

[BJean]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

[Mum to Emma]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

I don't think any responsible, informed breeder would argue with him on this point. Unneutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander in search of a mate. And if they encounter any competition in the process (ie another unneutered dog) they will fight for the 'right' to mate with a bitch that is in season.

[BJean]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

I don't think any responsible, informed breeder would argue with him on this point. Unneutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander in search of a mate. And if they encounter any competition in the process (ie another unneutered dog) they will fight for the 'right' to mate with a bitch that is in season.

That's great but I'm interested in the science.

Neutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander.

Neutered dogs will fight.

I know in season bitches that will fight males desexed, and entire

and I know entire dogs that wont fight AND will stay home

So yes I'd like the facts maam not creative writing.

Edited February 15, 2010 by lilli

[The Spotted Devil]

Hi lilli

There is a journal article I came across where a dog being entire is a risk factor for ending up in a shelter. However a correlation is only that - a correlation As an example, it may say more about the owner than it does the dog. I should be able to find it amongst all my articles but it might take me a few days as I am flat out. PM if you would like.

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

I don't think any responsible, informed breeder would argue with him on this point. Unneutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander in search of a mate. And if they encounter any competition in the process (ie another unneutered dog) they will fight for the 'right' to mate with a bitch that is in season.

That's great but I'm interested in the science.

Neutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander.

Neutered dogs will fight.

I know in season bitches that will fight males desexed, and entire

and I know neutered dogs that will fight

not to mention entire dogs that wont fight AND will stay home

So yes I'd like the facts maam not creative writing.

I do not possess in my hands the 'science' however, it is certainly well recognised by all leading practitioners and welfare aganecies that this is fact. It refers to tendancies rather than the prospect that 'all' entire dogs will roam and fight. Desexing reduces the want to roam and most aggression.

I seem to be responding to many questions which appear to dispute sound knowledge and reasoning.

I enjoy being part of this forum and answering questions, however, I am not the sole font of knowledge.

Perhaps you could investigate these claims yourself via the internet.

[mita]

Good on you for coming on the Net to discuss the case.

To be honest, it is an owner responsibility to get their dogs registered/microchipped because no matter how careful we are, accidents & stuff-ups happen and dogs can get out.

I know, from being on these forums, that perfectly healthy, young, well-behaved & even purebred pet dogs have been picked up in the Brisbane area. And after 3 days in the clink & unclaimed (no ID, no microchip, no reggo) , have been PTS. Which has terrified me witless about putting an ID disk on our dogs' collars, & getting them microchipped & registered with the council.

I got a new adult dog from NSW last week....& the race to get all her Qld stuff in order has taken more time & paperwork than getting a new baby registered.

Changing microchip details, getting her desexed, getting her ownership changed on her pedigree papers, getting a copy of the council registration form, photocopying piles of papers to do with all this....even getting a money order because the Brisbane Council requires that kind of payment for first registration. And also getting her an ID disc with name & phone no to put on her collar as soon as she was delivered to Brisbane airport.

And all that cost heaps, too.

Even tho', it can make the Council seem like an evil pet dog killer.....people have to know all this is necessary so their lost dog doesn't get PTS.

My question is....can all this be made a bit easier and/or cheaper? For the average Joe Blow Public. Even tho' frankly I don't know how myself.

I know I'm talking about Brisbane Council, but all those things have to be done in Ipswich, too.

The idea about your Council linking up with the RSPCA Qld Lost & Found data base would be great. The folk who run that are a legend at persistence.

Also the idea of setting up a website with pics, like Canberra would be excellent, too.

Edited February 15, 2010 by mita

[BJean]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

I don't think any responsible, informed breeder would argue with him on this point. Unneutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander in search of a mate. And if they encounter any competition in the process (ie another unneutered dog) they will fight for the 'right' to mate with a bitch that is in season.

That's great but I'm interested in the science.

Neutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander.

Neutered dogs will fight.

I know in season bitches that will fight males desexed, and entire

and I know neutered dogs that will fight

not to mention entire dogs that wont fight AND will stay home

So yes I'd like the facts maam not creative writing.

I do not possess in my hands the 'science' however, it is certainly well recognised by all leading practitioners and welfare aganecies that this is fact. It refers to tendancies rather than the prospect that 'all' entire dogs will roam and fight. Desexing reduces the want to roam and most aggression.

There are leading practitioners and professionals who will just as readily dispute that claim.

I asked about the 'science' because you said that Council had a strategy in place that was based on Science.

I dont think its unreasonable to then be asked what that science is.

It wasn't a lead in to criticise Ipswich Council; Ipswich is so far away, Councils in QLD and VIC, who can compare.

But now studies on dogs in Australian pounds are another thing altogether.

I seem to be responding to many questions which appear to dispute sound knowledge and reasoning.

Because depending on your poiint of view and experience, 'sound knowledge and reasoning'

can be no more than common misnomer.

I enjoy being part of this forum and answering questions, however, I am not the sole font of knowledge.

I know that.

My question referred to the science that you said Council's strategies were based upon.

I find scientific studies on the tendencies, history, correllations (thankyou TSD ) of pound dogs interesting.

particularly wrt legistlation.

Studies of an Australian perspective are not that common, so I thought perhaps you might know about the study that you mentioned.

But no biggy.

Perhaps you could investigate these claims yourself via the internet.

Cr are we not on the internet?

Edited February 15, 2010 by lilli

[mita]

If an impounded dog can be PTS in 3 days when it doesn't have ID or microchip or reggo...who cares if it's desexed or not desexed?

If an owner doesn't want to have a dead dog, then the owner has to get on to the ID, microchip, & reggo.

Anything that can highlight those facts....and simplify & cheapen getting it done....would be helpful.

I think, in the Brisbane area, if a dog's owner has a Breeder/Show licence, then they don't pay the more expensive fee for an undesexed animal.

Could that apply in the Ipswich area so the registered show breeders wouldn't be penalised for having undesexed show dogs?

All purely pet dogs should be desexed IMO. A couple of councils in Central Qld provide a contribution to the desexing of dogs belonging to pension card holders (maybe others, too). The system is handled for the Council by a rescue group....Capricorn Animal Aid.

Edited February 15, 2010 by mita

[BJean]

If an impounded dog can be PTS in 3 days when it doesn't have ID or microchip or reggo...who cares if it's desexed or not desexed?

I just wanted to know if the science / study could be located; had a name, jist etc

Edited February 15, 2010 by lilli

[mita]

If an impounded dog can be PTS in 3 days when it doesn't have ID or microchip or reggo...who cares if it's desexed or not desexed?

I just wanted to know if the science / study could be located; had a name, jist etc

lilli, I love the little blue guy. Haven't seen him before.

[Sheridan]

I do not possess in my hands the 'science' however, it is certainly well recognised by all leading practitioners and welfare aganecies that this is fact. It refers to tendancies rather than the prospect that 'all' entire dogs will roam and fight. Desexing reduces the want to roam and most aggression.

I seem to be responding to many questions which appear to dispute sound knowledge and reasoning.

I enjoy being part of this forum and answering questions, however, I am not the sole font of knowledge.

Perhaps you could investigate these claims yourself via the internet.

Hang around here long enough (and please do!) and you'll find that for every 'fact' there is about dogs, another 'fact' will say the opposite.

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

Hi Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Are you able to reference the scientific study

council bases its stratefy on

wrt desexed dogs being less aggressive and roaming less.

Thankyou

I don't think any responsible, informed breeder would argue with him on this point. Unneutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander in search of a mate. And if they encounter any competition in the process (ie another unneutered dog) they will fight for the 'right' to mate with a bitch that is in season.

That's great but I'm interested in the science.

Neutered dogs, if unsecured, will wander.

Neutered dogs will fight.

I know in season bitches that will fight males desexed, and entire

and I know neutered dogs that will fight

not to mention entire dogs that wont fight AND will stay home

So yes I'd like the facts maam not creative writing.

I do not possess in my hands the 'science' however, it is certainly well recognised by all leading practitioners and welfare aganecies that this is fact. It refers to tendancies rather than the prospect that 'all' entire dogs will roam and fight. Desexing reduces the want to roam and most aggression.

There are leading practitioners and professionals who will just as readily dispute that claim.

I asked about the 'science' because you said that Council had a strategy in place that was based on Science.

I dont think its unreasonable to then be asked what that science is.

It wasn't a lead in to criticise Ipswich Council; Ipswich is so far away, Councils in QLD and VIC, who can compare.

But now studies on dogs in Australian pounds are another thing altogether.

I seem to be responding to many questions which appear to dispute sound knowledge and reasoning.

Because depending on your poiint of view and experience, 'sound knowledge and reasoning'

can be no more than common misnomer.

I enjoy being part of this forum and answering questions, however, I am not the sole font of knowledge.

I know that.

My question referred to the science that you said Council's strategies were based upon.

I find scientific studies on the tendencies, history, correllations (thankyou TSD ) of pound dogs interesting.

particularly wrt legistlation.

Studies of an Australian perspective are not that common, so I thought perhaps you might know about the study that you mentioned.

But no biggy.

Perhaps you could investigate these claims yourself via the internet.

Cr are we not on the internet?

Okay, so you want to challenge years of well known and practiced research regarding the benefits of desexing. Perhaps you are just anti-desexing.

Well from my local knowledge of roaming dogs (impounded) and dog attacks the majority are not desexed.

That is why the San Diego County have an initiative that gives owners of impounded 'entire' dogs the option of paying for an impoundment fee or paying for an on-site desexing of the dog. The fees for both are comparable/similar. If the owner decides not to accept the desexing offer, then if the dog re-offends and is impounded then the owner is liable for both the impoundment fee and the desexing fee. That's right, the dog is desexed before being re-united with the owner. This initiative has resulted in a better than 50% improvement in repeat impoundments.

You have asked me to produce the science and you wish to challenge years of accepted practice.

You say that there is evidence to the contrary. Well.........pls produce.

[sandra64]

Off topic a bit here councillor, sorry, but would it be beneficial to have it that all puppies be registered from ownership. Say for intstance with these poor lil pups that are overlooked in glass boxes at pet shops. Would it be much safer for the dogs well being that all pups sold have to have registration transfers done at time of buying. That way you can keep track of what they are churning out, and if by chance its not living in ipswich region, its transferred to their local coucil.I know for the average person that 3month thing is handy, but alot just dont do it. If they were registered from birth with say their 1st registration lasting 15months then they are on your books from word go.

[poodlefan]

The pup was not wearing a collar.

The pup was not microchipped.

It was left in an unsecure backyard.

Whatever people think of 3 day impoundment rules, it seems pretty unfair to dump the entire responsiblity for the pup's death on council.

[Sheridan]

Okay, so you want to challenge years of well known and practiced research regarding the benefits of desexing. Perhaps you are just anti-desexing.

Well from my local knowledge of roaming dogs (impounded) and dog attacks the majority are not desexed.

That is why the San Diego County have an initiative that gives owners of impounded 'entire' dogs the option of paying for an impoundment fee or paying for an on-site desexing of the dog. The fees for both are comparable/similar. If the owner decides not to accept the desexing offer, then if the dog re-offends and is impounded then the owner is liable for both the impoundment fee and the desexing fee. That's right, the dog is desexed before being re-united with the owner. This initiative has resulted in a better than 50% improvement in repeat impoundments.

You have asked me to produce the science and you wish to challenge years of accepted practice.

You say that there is evidence to the contrary. Well.........pls produce.

Would you like a list of years of accepted practice items that are considered arcane and out-of-date? Just because something has had years of accepted practice (let's pick a favourite: white Australia policy; hardly a Good Thing), it doesn't mean it is best practice now. Open your mind, sir.

I don't think anyone is saying that desexing is a bad thing but it doesn't automatically follow that desexed dogs roam less. And can we not get onto dog attacks because really, do you want an argument about BSL?

[Diva]

The pup was not wearing a collar.

The pup was not microchipped.

It was left in an unsecure backyard.

Whatever people think of 3 day impoundment rules, it seems pretty unfair to dump the entire responsiblity for the pup's death on council.

I agree about not assigning all responsibility to the Council. But I don't blame someone for not leaving collar on at home either. Compulsory (and well enforced) microchipping should be the standard everywhere, IMHO.

[poodlefan]

The pup was not wearing a collar.

The pup was not microchipped.

It was left in an unsecure backyard.

Whatever people think of 3 day impoundment rules, it seems pretty unfair to dump the entire responsiblity for the pup's death on council.

I agree about not assigning all responsibility to the Council. But I don't blame someone for not leaving collar on at home either. Compulsory (and well enforced) microchipping should be the standard everywhere, IMHO.

Agree Diva and my dogs don't wear collars at home either.

The saddest part about the blame game is that that the pup's owners and those reading the article don't learn from the tragedy.

[mita]

The pup was not wearing a collar.

The pup was not microchipped.

It was left in an unsecure backyard.

Whatever people think of 3 day impoundment rules, it seems pretty unfair to dump the entire responsiblity for the pup's death on council.

I agree about not assigning all responsibility to the Council. But I don't blame someone for not leaving collar on at home either. Compulsory (and well enforced) microchipping should be the standard everywhere, IMHO.

Disagree. Dogs are usually at home before they go missing. Tradespeople leaving gates open, wind blowing gates, dogs digging under fences etc etc etc.

So an owner bears full responsibility when their dog manages to get out (or be left out) without their collar showing ID disk, rego tag....& even the tag which shows they're microchipped. What do you expect the council to do.....notice your dog is getting out & come round to your place, find its ID collar & put it on?

I make it a standard practice to put our dogs' collars back on immediately after a bath.

The one occasion when our dogs got out (tradesperson leaving 2 gates ajar), I got a phone call within 5 minutes from a person nearby. She had the dogs safe.

We live near shops which seem to attract lost dogs.....& have found many trotting by over the years. Every one of them had a current Brisbane or Pine Rivers rego tag on their collar. Both councils then contacted the owners who arrived pretty promptly to collect them from us.

On another occasion a person from the Caboolture council even helped track down, from an expired rego tag, the owners of a dog, who had moved to Brisbane.

Which is why I'd like to see the system of registration made affordabe & easy for dog owners. I also like the idea of lifetime registration which seems to be available in NSW.

Edited February 16, 2010 by mita

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

Okay, so you want to challenge years of well known and practiced research regarding the benefits of desexing. Perhaps you are just anti-desexing.

Well from my local knowledge of roaming dogs (impounded) and dog attacks the majority are not desexed.

That is why the San Diego County have an initiative that gives owners of impounded 'entire' dogs the option of paying for an impoundment fee or paying for an on-site desexing of the dog. The fees for both are comparable/similar. If the owner decides not to accept the desexing offer, then if the dog re-offends and is impounded then the owner is liable for both the impoundment fee and the desexing fee. That's right, the dog is desexed before being re-united with the owner. This initiative has resulted in a better than 50% improvement in repeat impoundments.

You have asked me to produce the science and you wish to challenge years of accepted practice.

You say that there is evidence to the contrary. Well.........pls produce.

Would you like a list of years of accepted practice items that are considered arcane and out-of-date? Just because something has had years of accepted practice (let's pick a favourite: white Australia policy; hardly a Good Thing), it doesn't mean it is best practice now. Open your mind, sir.

I don't think anyone is saying that desexing is a bad thing but it doesn't automatically follow that desexed dogs roam less. And can we not get onto dog attacks because really, do you want an argument about BSL?

BSL?

My mind is a parachute, however, no-one has produced evidence to the contrary. In my defence, not all theories are relevant to all dogs. The evidence/practice is general, I agree, however, people deserve to be informed of the benefits of desexing, not withstanding their right to choice.

This debate has grown to encompass many items outside of the original topic. I'm finding this forum very interesting and informative. My ears are always open to logic and wisdom.