From Usa

[Jed]

In light some some of the legislation being mooted in Aust, this proposed legislation from USA is interesting, as legislation from US often seems to migrate here. Information on docking and collars are relevant. I thought the first paragraph was most interesting. Particularly as relates to choke and prong collars. Scary. I have bolded the paragraphs I thought interesting

Red Alert – Wednesday, February 17, 2010 – AB-747—Windchill Bill

AB-747 is a bill that covers domestic abuse as well as animal cruelty. We fully

understand legislators that have the best interests of children in mind and applaud their

commitment to protect them. However, this bill goes beyond the scope of protecting children

and in the process could make anyone that uses any type of aversive training (i.e. prong or

choke collars) method or whose breed is traditionally docked or cropped or those that have

dew claws removed, or perhaps cause a nail to bleed when cutting too close to the quick, a

felon if done in front of a child. We feel that this bill in its current form had input

from animal rights organizations as the wording is such that even hunting with a child could

cause a person to be prosecuted for animal abuse and subject to felony charges.

The first part of the bill deals with changing State of WI existing statute 813.12

(3) which covers domestic abuse situations and adds “to refrain from engaging in or

threatening to engage in the mistreatment of an animal owned or cared for by the

petitioner” to the statute. We do not object to this. Our objections stem from the

second part of the bill where they try and redefine animal cruelty and make those found

guilty of being felons if certain acts are done in front of a minor child.

As our current animal cruelty laws do not offer specific exclusions for livestock

management, hunting, trapping, or docking/dewclaw removal/cropping of animals, we feel that

the changes to the existing law will only open up those who deal with animals to persecution

from animal rights individuals.

Starting on Page 4, line 25 of the bill, this bill creates new and makes changes to

the existing Animal Cruelty laws. As this bill deals with two unrelated sections of WI

Statutes, the wording in 813.12 that specifically states “mistreatment of an animal owned

or cared for by the petitioner”, is not applicable to the section regarding animal cruelty

and therein threatens all warm-blooded animal enterprises in the State. Section 948.057

titled “Causing a child to commit a crime against an animal” is new. This section goes

on to state that “Whoever causes a child who has not attained 18 years of age to violate

s. 951.02 may be penalized as provided” and lists class F & H felonies.

This bill changes the definition of cruel <Section 8, 951.01 (2)> from

“cruel means causing unnecessary and excessive pain or suffering or unjustifiable injury

or death” by adding the words “OR FAILING TO PREVENT”. If a person uses a prong

collar, or an electric collar for either containment or training and it is done in front of

a child, you could be charged with a Class I felony. If you dock, crop, or remove dew claws

in front of a child, you could be charged with a Class E felony. If you hunt, trap, or

slaughter animals for food in front of a child, you could be charged with a Class C felony.

If found guilty, you could be subject to psychological testing and or participate in anger

management counseling as well as not be allowed to have anything to do with animals for as

long as 15 years. Also under this section of law, a mistreatment of animals conviction

under this section does not require proof of intent or negligence. Just doing the activity

is enough. AB 747 is a back door attempt to take away the rights of the individuals that deal

with warm-blooded animals. Please contact your elected representatives and express your

concern regarding this bill. The bill in its entirety can be found at www.dfow.net

There is a public hearing scheduled for AB 747 on Wednesday, February 24, 2010,

10:30 AM, Room 412 East. The hearing can change up until 24 hours before this date/time.

Keep alert. This bill is before Committee on Criminal Justice. This committee consists of:

Representative Robert Turner (Chair), Representative Frederick Kessler (Vice-Chair),

Representative Anthony Staskunas, Representative Ann Hraychuck, Representative James

Soletski, Representative Sandy Pasch

Representative Joel Kleefisch, Representative Donald Friske, Representative Bill

Kramer, Representative Edward Brooks, Representative Keith Ripp

Please contact the above committee members as well as your own State Representatives

and Senators and let them know why you are against this bill. Please plan on attending the

public hearing. Remember, the animal rights groups will be well represented at this hearing

and this bill will affect even those that don’t breed.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Jed

[Evolving]

Ok that is just weird.

First off why is animal cruelty and child abuse in the same bill anyway?

It being a felony for cutting the quick to low in front of a child is a little scary. What could very well be a accident could see you charged and banned from being around animals. Maybe they could go a step further and ban children looking at animals just incase they see something bad happen around them.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Evolving

[SpikesPuppy]

Oh good lord!! It's not uncommon for me to get the quick when cutting my dogs nails (it's a helluva lot easier for everyone involved to just clip clip clip and have one or 2 bleed for a moment with no lasting ill-effects).

What a load of crap!! Very scary that it's even under consideration

I also know several people in the USA who've grown up huntin' and shootin' and there's nothing wrong with them or the way they interact with society or animals for that matter.

[sandgrubber]

I'd like to know who wrote the text and whether their interpretation of the proposed law is accurate . .. 'could be charged with . .. ' is not a strong statement. The text looks like the sort of thing that is ambiguous and will leave it to the courts to determine what is cruel. WI has a pretty large rural population and quite a few hunters, so its likely that the bill will be opposed. Here's hoping the Canine lobby gets wording changed so that it applies only to real cruelty, like beating, chaining, dog fighting, etc. and not to dog management practices that some people don't like. I have no problem with exposing kids to animal cruelty be treated as a serious crime.

[Howl]

Ok that is just weird.

First off why is animal cruelty and child abuse in the same bill anyway?

From what I understand, studies in the US have found that the majority (77%) of child/domestic abusers also abuse the family pet (Ascione, 2005; Ascione & Ackrow, 1999). As part of child or domestic abuse, the abuser often manipulates the victims by harming or threatening to harm the pets. The abuser may also force the child to harm the pet - a "do it or I'll do it to you" threat. And we are not talking trimming the toenails here - its things like torture, killing, dismemberment, even sexual abuse of the animal.

I think this may be why the two are linked in the same bill. I understand the intent, but I can also see that the context may need to be tightened up.

[sandgrubber]

Might also be noted that in the US, animal cruelty was recognised in law before child abuse was. The first successful child abuse case was brough forward under animal cruelty laws with help from the ASPCA. (I can look up the references . . . the book was Pawprints in History . .. a fascinating historical look at dogs in various societies over time). Child abuse and animal cruelty have been linked in the US for a long time.

[spottychick]

Yep, I can totally see the link between animal abuse/cruelty and child abuse/cruelty. And other crimes against people for that matter. I would support this bill - it just needs some tweaking and clarification.

[whippets]

Oh good lord!! It's not uncommon for me to get the quick when cutting my dogs nails (it's a helluva lot easier for everyone involved to just clip clip clip and have one or 2 bleed for a moment with no lasting ill-effects).

What a load of crap!! Very scary that it's even under consideration

I also know several people in the USA who've grown up huntin' and shootin' and there's nothing wrong with them or the way they interact with society or animals for that matter.

That would NEVER get in. The USA is the gun capital of the world and where I used to live is the capital city....Virginia. They are very anal retentive about gun rights and taking kids out hunting from the age of 10 is pretty much the norm where I use to live.

They are weird on what is suitable and what isn't though. I would see dead people laying on the streets on the nightly news, when I lived there, yet the whole country goes up in arms over Janet Jacksons wardrobe malfunction and OMG shows a boob........ for christs sake.

[SpikesPuppy]

Oh good lord!! It's not uncommon for me to get the quick when cutting my dogs nails (it's a helluva lot easier for everyone involved to just clip clip clip and have one or 2 bleed for a moment with no lasting ill-effects).

What a load of crap!! Very scary that it's even under consideration

I also know several people in the USA who've grown up huntin' and shootin' and there's nothing wrong with them or the way they interact with society or animals for that matter.

That would NEVER get in. The USA is the gun capital of the world and where I used to live is the capital city....Virginia. They are very anal retentive about gun rights and taking kids out hunting from the age of 10 is pretty much the norm where I use to live.

They are weird on what is suitable and what isn't though. I would see dead people laying on the streets on the nightly news, when I lived there, yet the whole country goes up in arms over Janet Jacksons wardrobe malfunction and OMG shows a boob........ for christs sake.

Weird indeed. Talk about going to extremes!! I have a friend who lives in Tx and she can't wait 'til her 18th birthday when she gets her new rifle. She's had her current one since she was 13 and the one before that since she was 8!! Ain't nothing wrong with her compassion or attitude towards animals- she's always bringing strays home and spends all her wages on medical care for them to make them suitable for re-homing!

Howl:

And we are not talking trimming the toenails here - its things like torture, killing, dismemberment, even sexual abuse of the animal.

Trimming toenails was mentioned in the Opening Post.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Can't take the kid fishing coz you kill the fish.

[whippets]

No way on this earth am I giving up taking my 10 year old fishing. We have a ball. Although it was pretty bad yesterday. Not even the toadies were biting