Allergies

[Skruffy n Flea]

by christ i enjoyed reading this thread!

bella and byron are the only dogs i've ever had that i can call my own and i've only had 2 years' experience in total...

BUT something in the back of my mind settles very easily with the theory that we chemically overprotect them and yes, i can absolutely incorporate that into the possibility [despite the lack of scientific proof, general knowledge and dog experience] that generation upon generation being chemically overprotected MUST have some effect somewhere down the line ... a trickle down effect!

what was that drug they administered to pregnant women way back?!?! that drug that caused infant defects!

chemical applications have become so sophisticated over the past several decades that it begs the question: how long should a test study take?

[Erny]

Spirulina contains natural tryptophan which the body converts into seratonin. Tryptohphan is being trialled with antidepressants in order to reduce the dependance on the antidepressants. I've not heard of it (Spirulina) being used for allergies unless the scratching is symptomatic of an anxiety issue. But if you do use Spriulina for anything you need to increase Vitamin C in the diet as it strips the body of Vitamin C.

Thanks - I didn't know that about Spirulina. Very interesting and handy to know - I did a thesis on "Avoidance Motivated Aggression" years ago, and discussed the effects of tryptophan and its conversion to serotonin, its effects on the brain and behaviour.

I used Spirulina at the suggestion of a person who, whilst I'm unsure of formal qualifications, was a breeder and seemed to have a vast knowledge of food and food effects. This was in the very early stages of the issues I've experienced since - in fact, back then, the only (and first) indication of something being wrong was the fact that my dog stopped eating.

[Erny]

I will when you empty your inbox.................

..... sorry - Inbox is empty now

[AmandaJ]

Hi Erny - Some of the human related side effects of spirulina are also caused by it increasing the bodies temperature. Increased body temp can lead to "sweats" and itchy skin. I guess there is no reason why it can't also do the same for dogs. You can buy L-tryptophan on line rather than using Spirulina (if it's the tryptophan you need) but it was taken off the market a while ago. The manufacturing process was linked to changes in the protein which caused cancer. Don't know what the difference in the process is now. I wouldn't mind having a read of you thesis if I may...

[Erny]

I wouldn't mind having a read of you thesis if I may...

Mandela isn't on Spirulina anymore - hasn't been for a long time. So that's certainly not a contributor to his skin issues.

Gosh .... I wrote my thesis years ago. It might still be on my old computer. If it is and if I can find it I don't mind sharing. Way back then I didn't know half of what I do now though and I recognise when I read back on it how I obviously struggled to understand it all - it shows up in how I wrote, a bit 'stilted', I think and fairly basic. If you email me I'll send it to you if I can dig it up.

Flattered that you ask, although a bit embarrassed, because it was back in the earlier days and not worthy of attention .

Edited March 24, 2010 by Erny

[Lab_Rat]

Hi Erny - Some of the human related side effects of spirulina are also caused by it increasing the bodies temperature. Increased body temp can lead to "sweats" and itchy skin. I guess there is no reason why it can't also do the same for dogs. You can buy L-tryptophan on line rather than using Spirulina (if it's the tryptophan you need) but it was taken off the market a while ago. The manufacturing process was linked to changes in the protein which caused cancer. Don't know what the difference in the process is now. I wouldn't mind having a read of you thesis if I may...

AJ - was that the L-Tryptophan or the Sprirulina manufacturing process that was causing cancer?? A good thing to know!

Rat

[Erny]

AJ - was that the L-Tryptophan or the Sprirulina manufacturing process that was causing cancer?? A good thing to know!

I agree - it would be a good thing to know. I remember that when (all those years ago) I was researching for my thesis, that's when I learnt about and understood better the effects of Tryptophan and it being the protein that could cross the blood brain barrier, enhancing the production of Serotonin. When I went searching to find out where I could get/find Tryptophan (the American books suggested it was easily available) I found I couldn't source it in Australia - that it had been prohibited from import (or something along those lines) and I never understood why that might have been the case.

But I now note that we do now have it available. Whether it was always there but I hadn't been able to find it, or whether it is a product that has since been permitted (perhaps being proven safe ??) I don't know.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Erny

[AmandaJ]

It was the L-tryptophan.

Will PM you thanks Erny

[SmoothieGirl]

MM - Check out my post on this thread http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...30&start=30

There is evidence that some dogs suffer from a skin barrier deficiency, this can be a contributing factor in some dogs suffering atopic allergies.

[Shmurps]

A good read. I really do feel sorry for dogs that have allergies and owners that have to manage the problem.

I have owned 6 dogs 3 where from someones friend or family who had a litter back in the '70's and 3 rescues.

All our dogs have been vac, wormed and heartwormed (as heartworm was rife in our area in the 80's) and we have never had

an allergy problem and hope we never do. One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a trend with certain purebreeds as well, such as SBT.

Curser probs again

Edited March 24, 2010 by Shmurps

[sas]

Interesting...

http://www.cell.com/trends/immunology/abst...4906(07)00124-X

The skin barrier (stratum corneum) is a major factor for determining the nature of immune response to antigens presented at the skin surface. Genetic abnormalities in skin barrier function are associated with allergy and atopic dermatitis, and removal of the skin barrier by tape stripping results in dominant Th2 responses to protein antigens. Langerhans cells take up antigen applied to skin from which the skin barrier has been removed; they then migrate to draining lymph nodes and initiate typical Th2 responses. These observations lead us to propose that the high frequency of allergic disease in the industrialized world might be due to lifestyle choices that result in loss of integrity of the skin barrier such as excessive washing and exfoliation of the skin.

[SmoothieGirl]

Good work SAS! Much more useful information than I was able to provide.

[AmandaJ]

Thanks SAS - that one goes into the folder.

[stormie]

Right, we bit the bullet and just put Essential 6 topspot on Orbit. Hoping to anything he doesn't react to it, but hey, its worth a try to find another miracle cure, right?

He gets relief from Alpha Kerry Oil and also from wearing t-shirts etc, so I guess it's possible improving his skin barrier might help!

Will let you know how I go....

[SmoothieGirl]

Stormie I'll be really interested to see how you go. Have you been given any information to suggest how long it will be before it has any impact?

[stormie]

Stormie I'll be really interested to see how you go. Have you been given any information to suggest how long it will be before it has any impact?

Up to 8 weeks I believe. But the PAWS rep has been desperately trying to give me boxes of it to use, but he's never been able to answer my questions about them so I've previously declined.

[SmoothieGirl]

Stormie I'll be really interested to see how you go. Have you been given any information to suggest how long it will be before it has any impact?

Up to 8 weeks I believe. But the PAWS rep has been desperately trying to give me boxes of it to use, but he's never been able to answer my questions about them so I've previously declined.

I understand your reluctance then. What has Orbit's dermatologist said about it?

[Dogsfevr]

In 24 yrs of owning multi breeds & many many dogs never ever had a skin issue,

We groom dogs with skin issues but realistically many are owner created by diet,insistence to give all these junk food treats,perfume sprays & just silly stuff dogs dont need.Poor coat maintanence,unfit dog & not being honest with themselves with what they do & dont give.

My show dogs have & are bathed in pantene,are done twice a week & pee feathers nightly never ever had an issue.

We have never used flea stuff,worming is never over done .our dogs dont get junk treats ,never feed BARF nor feel its any better .

In our breed we did have one breeder who was well known for causing skin issues & thankfully they no longer breed & there lines have just about gone.

Generally i think many issues with some planning are easy to avoid but many run to the vet.

If i had a dog chewing crazy at one spot & never any where else i would use a doggy chiro or bowen,dogs will chew to ease pain so like the dog chewing at his spin area he may have pinched a nerve or similiar

[AmandaJ]

SAS got a Q for you then - you clearly understand this far better than me - so I'm picking your brain. ..if the Th2 is a response to protein antigens, is it possible that the changes to the proteins themselves during manufacture (ingested in an altered state) are causing the level of adverse response we now see. Bearing in mind that the reason L-Tryptophan was removed from the market was the manufacture process - natural tryptophan is fine..altered states of proteins?

Edited to say - I'm just getting into this subject......

Edited March 25, 2010 by AmandaJ

[SmoothieGirl]

Showdog, I agree with you to a point.

But my dogs reactions are not a result of poor diet, poor grooming, being unfit or any of the typical lack of care triggers. My Dobe had beautiful skin and coat, never an issue with her health until she was diagnosed late in life with sarcoma. However my current girl clearly has some issues and they are not confined to one spot - I damn well wish they were, that might help with diagnosis. But when a dog is scratching and biting itself to bits, fluffing around second guessing what might or might not be going on isn't always realistic, hence we go to the vet for some 'expert assistance'. I've had this problem in one dog, they have probably seen it in hundreds, so I look to them for help.

You have been very lucky to date with your dogs skin health and I hope that continues for you, but not all of us have been as lucky. Perhaps it seems like all our dogs have allergies and skin reactions, but consider, this is a dog forum, dog owners who care generally post here and this is the health section after all, so the concentration is skewed.

Personally I would prefer never to have to post here, but for Bronte's sake, I seek all the advice and information I can gather and you, my fine people, probably know a whole lot more than me.

Cheers

Edited March 26, 2010 by SmoothieGirl