Justice For Tango.supreme Court 29th March Brisbane

[WreckitWhippet]

no offence, but they should have wrote them before. this was easily something that was predicted and instead of some people sitting back and watching the show they should have been in there and giving some support because they understood, the plight this family has gone through.

now they are in the position where they are starting pretty much from scratch while the council allready has the ball more than rolling.

I have just read a copy of the judges decision and the GCCC is not to blame for this outcome.

Tango was positively identified some years ago by GCCC as an Amstaff and the GCCC offered to release the dog to its owners.

Where things all went pearshaped is that Tango's owners endeavoured to go one step further.

They appear to have sought a ruling that would favour the APBT as well.

The defendant (Chivers) produced evidence which suggested that Amstaffs and APBT were the same brred of dog.

All that the GCCC legal team did was to ask the judge (based on Chivers own evidence) whether an Amstaff and an APBT were the same breed of dog.

The judge's decision (based on the evidence of the case before him) was that "yes" they are the same breed.

Surely not ?

[zayda_asher]

I have just read a copy of the judges decision and the GCCC is not to blame for this outcome.

Tango was positively identified some years ago by GCCC as an Amstaff and the GCCC offered to release the dog to its owners.

Where things all went pearshaped is that Tango's owners endeavoured to go one step further.

They appear to have sought a ruling that would favour the APBT as well.

The defendant (Chivers) produced evidence which suggested that Amstaffs and APBT were the same brred of dog.

All that the GCCC legal team did was to ask the judge (based on Chivers own evidence) whether an Amstaff and an APBT were the same breed of dog.

The judge's decision (based on the evidence of the case before him) was that "yes" they are the same breed.

Not quite: The dog was allowed to LEAVE Qld and reside in another state, the court case was to prove that the dog was in fact not a APBT, but a AST as this would have allowed them to BRING THE DOG BACK to reside with them in their home in Qld... that is why it was in court still.

The applicant (Chivers) was not trying to prove the breeds are one in the same at all, in fact their case hinged on them not being so. One person they went to for evidence ended up being used by the council, as she stated they were one in the same (a lesson to be careful in who you use for evidence!). The respondent (council) when the judge found Tango was an AmStaff, and could return home, presented this further evidence that the APBT and the AmStaff are one in the same.

The case was found in favour of the respondent (council), not the applicant (Chivers).

Edited April 6, 2010 by zayda_asher

[chrisjc]

well once i see the paper work i may agree but at this stage i say bull...t.

it makes no difference who or what my point is that the next breed on the list was ALLWAYS going to be the AMSTAFF, and alot of the Amstaff people didnt care less because it wasnt their breed, we have as example people who own , Central asian shepards, border collies, greyhounds, rottie, Gsd's ect ect ect, who have done more for the bsl in this country than the "next" dog on the lists reperesentatives. [not all of them but a fair portion]

I counldnt careless, it is the GGCC's fault this should have never happened in the first place.

how do you still have all this info blackdog i know for a FACT John is still sitting in court as i write this.[or was thirty mins ago]

Edited April 6, 2010 by chrisjc

[chrisjc]

thank you zayda.

[zayda_asher]

well once i see the paper work i may agree but at this stage i say bull...t.

it makes no difference who or what my point is that the next breed on the list was ALLWAYS going to be the AMSTAFF, and alot of the Amstaff people didnt care less because it wasnt their breed, we have as example people who own , Central asian shepards, border collies, greyhounds, rottie, Gsd's ect ect ect, who have done more for the bsl in this country than the "next" dog on the lists reperesentatives. [not all of them but a fair portion]

Yep... unfortunately true... there's lots of people who believe that their breeds won't be touched because they are ANKC recognised breeds...

how do you still have all this info blackdog i know for a FACT John is still sitting in court as i write this.[or was thirty mins ago]

You'd be amazed how quick stuff travels these days on these issues! ;)

PS: PM Tybrax, I'm sure she will send it to you.

Edited April 6, 2010 by zayda_asher

[RottnBullies]

Yes Thank you Zayda for clearing that up.

And If people would stop making claims to which they not know, would be great.

Situation doesn't need false claims as is bad enough already ;)

[chrisjc]

Zayda ive allready spoken to her this morning but understandably she is very tied up with the media ect. but she said she would send it through later today.

[Slushie]

My heart goes out to the poor family and those effected by this. It is a very sad day indeed.

[chrisjc]

as much as it makes my blood boil i will do my best to stay reasonable with this.

the "not in my yard" mentality of all these situations bothers me to no end.

whats done is done now , and instead of finger pointing and blaming certain groups or people for these situations its time that EVERYONE who has any opinion on this crap realise that its been on the cards and maybee this is the shake up we need for some to stop sitting on the sidelines and jump in and help before we drown.

i do find such a claim towards John and his reasoning completely false blackdog, id like you to tell me why he couldnt take Tango back and fight the fight with his beloved dog at home with him instead of in a cage for six years. no one would do that and the dog sitting at home with him is a better boost for the rest of the situation rather than locked hundreds of kms away. i also find it hard to beleive that for someone who has nothing generally to say on any of the other bsl issues we have you pipe up on this blackdog. i smell a troll.

[zayda_asher]

as much as it makes my blood boil i will do my best to stay reasonable with this.

the "not in my yard" mentality of all these situations bothers me to no end.

whats done is done now , and instead of finger pointing and blaming certain groups or people for these situations its time that EVERYONE who has any opinion on this crap realise that its been on the cards and maybee this is the shake up we need for some to stop sitting on the sidelines and jump in and help before we drown.

Yep, I think we need to move on and work together... best foot forward and all that ;)

[tybrax]

The defendant (Chivers) produced evidence which suggested that Amstaffs and APBT were the same breed of dog.

All that the GCCC legal team did was to ask the judge (based on Chivers own evidence) whether an Amstaff and an APBT were the same breed of dog.

The judge's decision (based on the evidence of the case before him) was that "yes" they are the same breed.

Rubbish Geoff Irwin GCC instructed his Solictor to produce the evidence that the Amstaff was a Pit bull.

Argument proving Tango to be an Amstaff, also proving the 22 point checklist to be a complete false tool to identify a suspected dog to be a Pit bull terrier, we also were to prove that the Animal control Officers hold no qualification/training of any real bearing to be an expert under the rules of law, as an expert in dog breed identification.

All three points the Gold Coast City Councils 2 QC's agreed with without contesting any part.

These are the points we were fighting for and won they did not contest.

In fact they indicated that for the past 6 years they may have got everything wrong with the way they had administered this law but could fix it?

Then they threw this on the table. The Amstaff was a Pit bull terrier??????

So we had proven that Tango was an Amstaff, the 22 point checklist was false and the ACO were not experts so all their evidence was inadmissible, But, Tango still was a Pit bull terrier as Amstaffs are really Pit bulls just known by another name??

Rather than concede, and allow the return of Tango to Qld they would rather destroy all Amstaffs as well???

The direction given by Geoff Irwin to the law firm King & Co Solicitors', to take in order to win, this submission is now before the Judge who has to rule on the evidence before him. This is Councils arguments only, not a court judgement!!!

This is just sheer "MALICE" By Geoff Irwin to go after the Amstaff because they new they could not win.

l will not post anything up until it is public knowledge.

Zayda Asher l have only just recieved the documentation from an amstaff breeder, and have not had time to read it.

tybrax

Edited April 6, 2010 by tybrax

[zayda_asher]

The direction given by Geoff Irwin to the law firm King & Co Solicitors', to take in order to win, this submission is now before the Judge who has to rule on the evidence before him. This is Councils arguments only, not a court judgement!!!

l will not post anything up until it is public knowledge.

SO can you confirm that the court has NOT made its final ruling? We were told that the ruling had been made in favour of the council already ;)

Zayda Asher l have only just recieved the documentation from an amstaff breeder, and have not had time to read it.

Let me know, when you get a moment

[JustinMorgan]

Zayda the bit on Irwin is from last week .

[tybrax]

l cannot confirm this until the Supreme Court releases it, for public knowledge.

Which they haven't done yet. All parties involved are still with barristers.

tybrax

[zayda_asher]

Ok Tybrax...

Edited April 6, 2010 by zayda_asher

[tybrax]

The case will be appealed.

Council have to pay there own cost.

can't say much till l get info.

Zayda post the document up it's public knowledge.

A Current Affair tonight tango's story channel 9.

ABC has done a story as well.

tybrax

Edited April 6, 2010 by tybrax

[Jed]

'Jed' date='5th Apr 2010 - 09:51 PM' post='4440678']

There is NO difference between condeming APBT and ANKC registered breeds. Some ANKC breeds are banned or restricted in Queensland already, and I have no doubt that those bans will spread to other states, at the whim of various councils. Registered Amstaffs are completely banned from Toowoomba, and have been since the instigation of the bans.Unregistered dogs are totally at risk, or those dogs whose papers cannot be found.

Restricted dogs

Under the commonwealth Customs Act 1901, local governments can prohibit certain breeds (or cross breeds) of dogs in their jurisdictions, under a local law. The decision to make such a local law is at the discretion of each local government, the Minister and state government have limited powers to intervene in local government laws.

Rubbish Jed, above is the restricted dogs of Towoomba and Amstaffs are not subject to the Customs Act. We have been down this path previosly. No councils can or have still in force the restriction of any breeds other than subjects of the Customs Act as of July 2009.

Couldn't be bothered. Can't you understand what you have written and bolded (above)? Your own quotation disagrees with your argument.

I'll write it again

Under the commonwealth Customs Act 1901, local governments can prohibit certain breeds (or cross breeds) of dogs in their jurisdictions, under a local law.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jed

[Jed]

no offence, but they should have wrote them before. this was easily something that was predicted and instead of some people sitting back and watching the show they should have been in there and giving some support because they understood, the plight this family has gone through.

now they are in the position where they are starting pretty much from scratch while the council allready has the ball more than rolling.

I have just read a copy of the judges decision and the GCCC is not to blame for this outcome.

Tango was positively identified some years ago by GCCC as an Amstaff and the GCCC offered to release the dog to its owners.

Where things all went pearshaped is that Tango's owners endeavoured to go one step further.

They appear to have sought a ruling that would favour the APBT as well.

The defendant (Chivers) produced evidence which suggested that Amstaffs and APBT were the same brred of dog.

All that the GCCC legal team did was to ask the judge (based on Chivers own evidence) whether an Amstaff and an APBT were the same breed of dog.

The judge's decision (based on the evidence of the case before him) was that "yes" they are the same breed.

Surely not ?

Absolutely.

[Jed]

tybrax

we also were to prove that the Animal control Officers hold no qualification/training of any real bearing to be an expert under the rules of law, as an expert in dog breed identification.

Wasn't this proven in previous cases, and the reason for the amendment to the regulations recently?

[tybrax]

Wasn't this proven in previous cases, and the reason for the amendment to the regulations recently?

Yes it was, but council ignore it and still use the 22 point checklist. tybrax