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Epilepsy


Kirislin
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About a year ago I think Tag had a fit, I didn't see it but shortly afterwards he was acting odd. I took him to the vets the next day but he just said make a note of it and if he has more to take him back. Tag might have had two more, again I didn't actually see anything but his behaviour made me think that's what happened. Now everythings been fine, nothing that I know of anyway for probably 9 months. Does that mean I can relax or will there always be this cloud over my boy, waiting, wondering, worrying if it's going to happen again. :o

here's my gorgeous bubba

4474990331_227ce007f8_b.jpg

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What do you mean by his behaviour makes you think he had a fit?

I had a collie x for 14 years that took diagnosed epileptic fits for 12 of them and there seemed to be no after effects other than a bit of slabber round the mouth and a thirst.

Sometimes we could pick up a change of behaviour before them like he would suddenly become sooky, but afterwards he was fine

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What do you mean by his behaviour makes you think he had a fit?

I had a collie x for 14 years that took diagnosed epileptic fits for 12 of them and there seemed to be no after effects other than a bit of slabber round the mouth and a thirst.

Sometimes we could pick up a change of behaviour before them like he would suddenly become sooky, but afterwards he was fine

He woke me up in the middle of the night and he was dizzy, confused and walking like a drunk. Then, a couple of days later I came home to find my big heavy televison knocked onto the floor, I very much doubt it was rough play with the two boys, I suspect he'd had a fit and knocked it, then a third time he woke me in the middle of the night much the same as the first time. I've had a horse who had fits and I know how they're in a confused state afterwards. When I described it to my vet he agreed with me but as I haven't actually seen him fitting I am only 99.99999% sure.

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Being dizzy, confused and walking like a drunk certainly sounds like some kind of fit.

Medication can control it quite well.

My dog had very few fits when sleeping they were mostly brought on by noise, thunder lightning and lawn mowers, that kind of thing.

If you see him have one try to keep calm and do not restrain him and try and time how long the actual thrashing around lasts for, the vet will want to know this

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yep, thanks Kempe, the vet has told me the same thing about keeping calm and not restraining him, just make sure he doesn't injure himself by his surroundings. What I am wondering though is that he doesn't appear to have had one for quite a while now, although I realise he might have when I am not around, but I am hoping they've stopped. I am just not sure if it's safe to assume he's most likely over them. I somehow doubt it but I was hoping against hope that it might be the case.

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yep, thanks Kempe, the vet has told me the same thing about keeping calm and not restraining him, just make sure he doesn't injure himself by his surroundings. What I am wondering though is that he doesn't appear to have had one for quite a while now, although I realise he might have when I am not around, but I am hoping they've stopped. I am just not sure if it's safe to assume he's most likely over them. I somehow doubt it but I was hoping against hope that it might be the case.

Hi Kirislin, my mini schnauzer (age 12) has been an epileptic since she was about 4 yrs old. She had a couple of fits and then that was that. When she was nearly 7 she started to fit again and in clusters which is extremely distressing for all concerned. The vet put her on phenobarb and her fitting was controlled for several years. When she was nearly 10 the fitting in clusters started again, badly, and her medication was increased. She hasn't had a fit for 2 yrs, however I am seeing the side effects of being on medication. The vet also told me the same thing - keeping calm, do not restrain her, just do your best to make sure she doesn't injure herself during the fit. She would sometimes take nearly a day to come around after these cluster fits and her little body was under a lot of stress. With the cluster fits, she would have a violent fit, then come to, then immediately go into another fit and this cycle would continue for some time - very upsetting and distressing.

I have made the decision that if she starts to fit again, that it is probably best now to put her to sleep. At 12 with her eyesight going, hearing going and probably things going wrong inside her now due to the medication (the vet did say that liver damage was very common with dogs of phenobarb), also she can no longer control her bladder and bowels during the night, that the kinder thing now to do is let her go peacefully. However at the moment she seems to be ok, but aging quickly.

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I can't offer any advice but my BC x has had 2 fits that I know of, one when she was 6mths old and another only a few months ago (she is nearly 4yo now).

I saw the end of the first one and the whole of the 2nd and goodness knows if she has had others we haven't seen !

I only work part time and she is an inside-outside dog so hopefully we will be aware if it is escalates into somthing that requires treatment. I'm sure if she'd been having them regularly we would have seen more.

I don't dwell on it, you will have to deal with it if and when it becomes a problem. Until then relax and enjoy your dog.

If you are really worried are there any tests that can be done ?

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My male dog had seizures about every 3 months over a 2 year period. They were not frequent enough to medicate and he has not had one now for 3 years - I am more relaxed now but it is always in the back of my mind that he could have another one so he never goes swimming without one of us in the water and is never boarded (it has been a long time since we had a holiday). Aces seizures were pretty full on and he would always urinate and defecate (even when he had just been to the toilet) and the drool was everywhere - he would sometimes be very unsettled for days - including howling.

There is no test for idiopathic epilepsy - diagnosis is made by a process of elimination of other possible causes of the seizures

Edited by frufru
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Our little chi x had a couple of what we thought were fits. Apparently epilepsy is quite hard to diagnose in dogs and the vet told us only to worry if it happens quite frequently, ie: once a month or more often. When he had his fits he would just freeze, stare and tremble and drool. It only went for a minute or so and afterwards he was fine but exhausted.

I think if nothing has happened in 9 months you should be ok, but keep an eye out and if you notice anything take him to the vet. Our old boy is 13 now and hasn't had a fit in years :)

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thanks everyone for your responses. I am a bit more relaxed since it hasn't happened for a while but I suppose it will always be in the back of my mind. To all appearances he's a happy healthy boy who loves life and lives it to the full. That's all I can ask for.

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Sorry, I feel the need to correct a few wrong things you have stated.

I had a staffy boy who started having epileptic fits at about 6 months of age. By about 9 months he was already on his maximum dose of phenobarb every day, a walking zombie and still fitting several times a week.

How can anyone conclude, after only 3 months, the dog was on a maximum/correct therapeutic level of PB? Given that PB takes up to 3 months reach steady levels and the first blood samples are not normally taken until this time, I find it curious that this conclusion was reached so quickly.

It was all so tragic that he was nearly pts BUT my fantastic vet and a local naturopath worked together and over 3 years he moved between phenobarb and some naturopathic drops to no more fitting. It left a legacy of fear of lots of things for him but with careful management he lived a mostly happy life till 12.5 years. I am very proud of what we achieved.

What natropathic drugs was the dog put on? I ask this as I have an epileptic dog and I am always open to finding ways to help control his seizures.

So things to look for in fitting - if your dog doesn't know a fit is coming on

Dogs don't actually 'know' with understanding that they are about to have a seizure. A dog may show certain actions before a seizure but as they don't apply reasoning, they're not likely to secure themselves somehwere 'safe' while they have a seizure. :eek:

when he has one you need to make sure it happens in a safe location where he can't injure himself. They normally lay on their sides convulsing for several minutes. Out of their mouths comes loads and loads and loads of bubbly phlegm - so if you aren't seeing any signs of it dripping from your dog then maybe he hasn't been having an epileptic fit.

Incorrect. Only if the dog experiences tonic/clonic seizures will they 'lay on their sides'. There are many different types of seizures. Some merely involve a facial twitch. Therefore, your conclusion that if there is no froth then it wasn't a seizure is wrong. Also, if it was a tonic clonic, and the dog had it many hours previously, the froth may have dried and there would be no evidence of it.

They also have trouble 'coming to' after the fit. They don't know where they are. Mine would sniff and sniff trying to work out where he was like his other senses didn't work. He would be very quiet after a fit

Again, this is incorrect. It depends on the seizure, the type of seizure and the dog.

Some dogs come to immediately, within a minute, and are completely normal after a seizure. This phase after the seizure is called the post-ictal phase. Some dogs may take 24 hours beofre they return to any sense of normality. I have witnessed my dog come to immediately, and I have witnessed him take several hours. Sometimes he is tired, some times he is not.

Lately, I have noticed he remains hyped up and excited for quite some hours even though he is fully aware.

and we had a lot of trouble keeping weight on him.

This would have been the pheno causing the wieght gain most likely as one of the many side affects is an increase in hunger.

I hope that helps you determine if he is fitting or not? I can't remember the test our vet did for our boy, but even if he does have it and quite badly it can be managed if you are prepared to put in the effort.

There is no test for epilepsy. Your Vet would have been tested for other things that can cause seizures. If there is no cause found, then epilepsy is given as the diagnoses.

Kirislin - Your dog may never ever have another seizure. There is no way of knowing if he will.

Edited by ~Anne~
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yep, thanks Kempe, the vet has told me the same thing about keeping calm and not restraining him, just make sure he doesn't injure himself by his surroundings. What I am wondering though is that he doesn't appear to have had one for quite a while now, although I realise he might have when I am not around, but I am hoping they've stopped. I am just not sure if it's safe to assume he's most likely over them. I somehow doubt it but I was hoping against hope that it might be the case.

Hi Kirislin, my mini schnauzer (age 12) has been an epileptic since she was about 4 yrs old. She had a couple of fits and then that was that. When she was nearly 7 she started to fit again and in clusters which is extremely distressing for all concerned. The vet put her on phenobarb and her fitting was controlled for several years. When she was nearly 10 the fitting in clusters started again, badly, and her medication was increased. She hasn't had a fit for 2 yrs, however I am seeing the side effects of being on medication. The vet also told me the same thing - keeping calm, do not restrain her, just do your best to make sure she doesn't injure herself during the fit. She would sometimes take nearly a day to come around after these cluster fits and her little body was under a lot of stress. With the cluster fits, she would have a violent fit, then come to, then immediately go into another fit and this cycle would continue for some time - very upsetting and distressing.

I have made the decision that if she starts to fit again, that it is probably best now to put her to sleep. At 12 with her eyesight going, hearing going and probably things going wrong inside her now due to the medication (the vet did say that liver damage was very common with dogs of phenobarb), also she can no longer control her bladder and bowels during the night, that the kinder thing now to do is let her go peacefully. However at the moment she seems to be ok, but aging quickly.

Has your Vet considered adding Bromide to the drug regime? If Pb doesn't control it, they can add potassium bromide as well which works well for many dogs.

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I didn't intend to make you feel like an uninformed idiot and I apologise if that is how it made you feel.

However, you have given out incorrect information which may lead readers to think otherwise when their dog experiences a seizure.

Perhaps in future try to clarify that you are only giving the experience you personally have had with your dog. For example;

"They normally lay on their sides convulsing for several minutes."

*They* (which appears as though you are meaning all dogs having seizures) don't. Kirsilins dog may be having focal siezures, in which case, the dog will not 'lay on its side convulsing'. It will instead do anything form twitching, to stumbling as if drunk and even to fly catching.

Anyway, I again apologise for my blunt way of responding and the fact it made you feel uniformed.

Sorry, can I also just clarify this.... I am intrigued;

"And our dog seemed to always know when he was going to fit. he would take himself off people or the furniture and lay on the floor."

Did your dog actually go and lay down before his seizure started? Really? Like he said to himself 'uh, oh, seizure coming on, better lay down now' and then he would convulse???

Edited by ~Anne~
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yep, thanks Kempe, the vet has told me the same thing about keeping calm and not restraining him, just make sure he doesn't injure himself by his surroundings. What I am wondering though is that he doesn't appear to have had one for quite a while now, although I realise he might have when I am not around, but I am hoping they've stopped. I am just not sure if it's safe to assume he's most likely over them. I somehow doubt it but I was hoping against hope that it might be the case.

Hi Kirislin, my mini schnauzer (age 12) has been an epileptic since she was about 4 yrs old. She had a couple of fits and then that was that. When she was nearly 7 she started to fit again and in clusters which is extremely distressing for all concerned. The vet put her on phenobarb and her fitting was controlled for several years. When she was nearly 10 the fitting in clusters started again, badly, and her medication was increased. She hasn't had a fit for 2 yrs, however I am seeing the side effects of being on medication. The vet also told me the same thing - keeping calm, do not restrain her, just do your best to make sure she doesn't injure herself during the fit. She would sometimes take nearly a day to come around after these cluster fits and her little body was under a lot of stress. With the cluster fits, she would have a violent fit, then come to, then immediately go into another fit and this cycle would continue for some time - very upsetting and distressing.

I have made the decision that if she starts to fit again, that it is probably best now to put her to sleep. At 12 with her eyesight going, hearing going and probably things going wrong inside her now due to the medication (the vet did say that liver damage was very common with dogs of phenobarb), also she can no longer control her bladder and bowels during the night, that the kinder thing now to do is let her go peacefully. However at the moment she seems to be ok, but aging quickly.

Has your Vet considered adding Bromide to the drug regime? If Pb doesn't control it, they can add potassium bromide as well which works well for many dogs.

Hi, the phenobarb is controlling it and she seems to be ok and as stated hasn't had a fit for several years now.

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Sorry, can I also just clarify this.... I am intrigued;

"And our dog seemed to always know when he was going to fit. he would take himself off people or the furniture and lay on the floor."

Did your dog actually go and lay down before his seizure started? Really? Like he said to himself 'uh, oh, seizure coming on, better lay down now' and then he would convulse???

Anne why would I bother giving you any more information about my experiences when you are simply going to mock them and tell me how wrong I am? Why is it unacceptable for people to have different experiences to you? Why do you have to be so judgemental and dismissive?

And what were you hoping to achieve by starting a new thread on seizures where you say how horrified you are about people who talk about putting epileptic pets to sleep because of low quality of life, given I used those exact words in this thread just prior about my own boy? I found that extremely offensive given that I actually saved my boy from being pts by his original owner who could not manage the epilepsy right from the get go. At least I gave him a chance when his first owner couldn't.

I am entitled to share my own personal experiences and not have them judged as implausible by another doler who is neither my vet nor part of the extended household that cared for this dog over most of his life.

I apologise to Kirisilin for this thread taking a negative detour. I hope you resolve the issue for your pet.

My questions and comments are directed at the statements that you make in order to clarify and correct. You are the one making statements on a public forum. If you don't want people to respond, don't make them! It really is that simple. However, you are participating willingly in an open discussion on a public forum so accept the fact the people have every right to respond to what you say. I have apologised to you for making you feel 'uninformed' and explained that wasn't my intention but obviously it still grieves you.

As for starting a new thread, yes, your comments triggered my thoughts at that time but do you seriously think I have not heard those comments before in the 6 years I have lived with a dog with epilepsy? :rofl: Good grief, not everything is about you. Conversations and threads often take turns and new threads are created every day here in response to issues raised in other threads.

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