Resolved

[Nekhbet]

sorry Nev I know I just cleared up previous comments relating to the level of Sch required. Its 1 not 3. I put the full list of SV requirements above it relating to health, show and sch.

[Staranais]

You underestimate the difficulty of ringsport compared to IPO/Sch. Ringsport blows it straight out of the water. Most notably bites are not limited to sleeve like Sch.

Not really, cos that was the point of my comment - do they also need to go and do a Sch title if they happened to have already achieved a ringsport one? Seems like overkill. And I would imagine probably difficult to retrain a dog to bite schutzhund style once they're used to biting ringsport style.

[Nekhbet]

you're going backwards, most shepherds would have their sch1 title by breeding age, not at like 3 or 4 years old. Minimum age for Sch3 is 18months old. It is not that difficult to transfer sch to then go onto ringsport, like I said most a dominated by other breeds

just as an example the entry level Brevet test in french ring is 12 months, you have to pass this before going onto Ring 1

oh also adding ringsport does not have a tracking component, so technically its not the right breed test/

Edited June 13, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Staranais]

you're going backwards, most shepherds would have their sch1 title by breeding age, not at like 3 or 4 years old. Minimum age for Sch3 is 18months old. It is not that difficult to transfer sch to then go onto ringsport, like I said most a dominated by other breeds

So, if they happened to have a ringsport title first, they would have to go backwards and do a Schutzhund one. But they all tend to do schutzhund first even if they plan to try their hand at ring later, so it isn't often an issue. Gotcha!

[Nekhbet]

they're different disciplines with different aims, tests and outcomes. If you were in Germany and you wanted a dog to breed with you would pass all your relevent testing (like many do by 18mo-2yo) then go from there.

[K9Nev]

sorry Nev I know I just cleared up previous comments relating to the level of Sch required. Its 1 not 3. I put the full list of SV requirements above it relating to health, show and sch.

That's is correct, just a SchH1 now. A few years ago, I think males had to be SchH3???.

Great link Nekhbet regarding SV requirements Vast difference between the quality control at world level than other recognised practices

[K9Nev]

you're going backwards, most shepherds would have their sch1 title by breeding age, not at like 3 or 4 years old. Minimum age for Sch3 is 18months old. It is not that difficult to transfer sch to then go onto ringsport, like I said most a dominated by other breeds

just as an example the entry level Brevet test in french ring is 12 months, you have to pass this before going onto Ring 1

oh also adding ringsport does not have a tracking component, so technically its not the right breed test/

Schutzhund is a more balanced test for a companion animal than ringsport, as some of the components that make up the breeds versatility are missing. Even the Schutzhund BH is a good test to weed out over sharpness and overly defence driven dogs and fear aggression. It's surprising sometimes the faults that the BH test uncovers in some dogs

[Nekhbet]

Schutzhund is a more balanced test for a companion animal than ringsport, as some of the components that make up the breeds versatility are missing. Even the Schutzhund BH is a good test to weed out over sharpness and overly defence driven dogs and fear aggression. It's surprising sometimes the faults that the BH test uncovers in some dogs

Thanks nev you made the point I tried to in 4 posts

I know I wished at least BH was a prerequisite for Australian Shepherds. Involves no bitework so I dont see what the problem is. I think to be called a shepherd you should need more then just pedigree papers.

[K9Nev]

Schutzhund is a more balanced test for a companion animal than ringsport, as some of the components that make up the breeds versatility are missing. Even the Schutzhund BH is a good test to weed out over sharpness and overly defence driven dogs and fear aggression. It's surprising sometimes the faults that the BH test uncovers in some dogs

Thanks nev you made the point I tried to in 4 posts

I know I wished at least BH was a prerequisite for Australian Shepherds. Involves no bitework so I dont see what the problem is. I think to be called a shepherd you should need more then just pedigree papers.

Absolutely I think the BH is a fine test for pet quality and more really. It may not determine the courage required for a police K9 or security dog, but it certainly demonstartes stable nerve along with an obedience or trainability component. Traffic test, stranger reaction test, handler separation, exposure to a strange dog test, joggers, bicycle, car doors slamming and engine's starting etc etc. The BH tests everything that determines the temperament of a nice pet or painful one with issues that are difficult to re-shape if ever possible. If a GSD can't pass a BH..........IMHO such a dog should be desexed the next day and never bred regardless of it's conformation or pedigree.

I prefer a Shepherd that has the lot, but for the most part the majority go to pet homes. The traits that cause a BH failure, are not the traits that are easy to handle and live with for a family pet. Spookiness, separation anxiety and fear aggression etc are easily identified in a BH test where I guess it's why the BH is the "companion animal test" after all The BH can also indicate from the way a dog handles pressure, the potential it may have for greater working ability.

Edited June 13, 2010 by K9Nev

[Nekhbet]

yup stable nerve at least should be a considering factor. Shepherds here in Australia seem to be known for their whining and carrying on especially if mummy leaves snookums for 2 minutes. I can tell you that piercing shepherd screaming whine is not something I enjoy and frankly wish that trait would disappear.

[K9Nev]

yup stable nerve at least should be a considering factor. Shepherds here in Australia seem to be known for their whining and carrying on especially if mummy leaves snookums for 2 minutes. I can tell you that piercing shepherd screaming whine is not something I enjoy and frankly wish that trait would disappear.

for nerve stability!!!

[Kavik]

yup stable nerve at least should be a considering factor. Shepherds here in Australia seem to be known for their whining and carrying on especially if mummy leaves snookums for 2 minutes. I can tell you that piercing shepherd screaming whine is not something I enjoy and frankly wish that trait would disappear.

Diesel does the Shepherd scream.

[Kavik]

A merging of dog dancing and Schutzhund perhaps A lovely and very interesting dog dancing routine. Would they be allowed to do it in VIC?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crmD_B8ERzk

[Erny]

That was a great routine - thanks for linking. Kind of makes a laugh out of those who think biting a sleeve renders a dog dangerous, doesn't it?

Would they be allowed to do it in VIC?

LOL .... it NEEDS to be done here in Victoria.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

under victorian law that dog would have to be declared dangerous as its training fits into the parameters of bitework "biting anything attached to a human"

gotta love vic law

[Erny]

under victorian law that dog would have to be declared dangerous as its training fits into the parameters of bitework "biting anything attached to a human"

gotta love vic law

Very much points out the lunacy. Hhhhmmm .... might pass this on to all the MLA's, just to show them that parts of their current laws are already flawed and ridiculous, and yet they now want to add layers on to that.

Aaagh ..... Victorian dog laws - they need an enema.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Erny