It Could Be So Simple!

[Sue & Rotts]

A standard is not what causes a breed to be restricted, so I also do not understand the point.

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Did you miss the bit about "not given to indiscriminate friendships?" The point is, that if I DARE to suggest that it is unnecessary for our dogs to be stand-offish, I get shouted down by those quoting the breed standard!

Hi Sue,

If you are referring to Rottwieller's, they are a working dog of a guardian breed and the stand offish one's are probably the one's with the most authenticity and alliance with the breed standards. Without sounding patronising, why have a guardian breed then complain because it has the genetics to do it's job???. A dog of a guardian breed that hasn't the genetics for that job, isn't a correct example of the breed although it may be more socially preferred, the dog is actually a dud.

Aloofness isn't aggression and hostility, it's the dog not trusting the stranger at that point with the sharpness to react if the meeting turned pear shape. A seemingly friendly stranger may be someone who intends to grab your handbag and an aloof dog will be ready for any misadventure. Aloofness and sharpness is a great basic trait for a dog to successfully be trained in protection where your Rotties, GSD's, Belgian Malinios, Dobie's excel in that working role.

People who buy guardian breeds should be prepared for the likelyhood of protective genetics surfacing and learn how to handle and train them for acceptable social behaviour. I don't think that people should try and breed out protective genetics from these breeds without impeccable knowledge of what they need to achieve when playing with nerve strength and hardness which can backfire to create unpredictable fear aggression being the make up of some truly dangerous dogs. Plenty of other breeds who are licky monsters and everyone's friend to chose from

I currently have my 23rd and 24th Rottweilers; one is friendly to all - people and dogs - but is a quite fierce guard of us and ours. The other day I had a fall and she would not let a neighbour help me (initially) stood over me and guarded me; a 'drop-stay' fixed that.

My other dog is 'aloof' and 'not given to indiscriminate friendships' - really, she shows often that she is SCARED. Guess which one I will breed from?

[Diva]

I had a look at the Rottie standard and the only place I found 'aloof' was in the breed extension - both the standard and the extension make much of a biddable and placid nature but the extension goes on to say that, in the show ring, aloof or reserved dogs should not be penalised. Hardly the same as requiring them to be aloof.

Where it does crop up as a term, of course, is in the breed standards of many of the sighthounds.

Either 'aloof' or it's equivalent of 'reserved with strangers' comes up in the standards or standard extensions for many (at least 7 that I can think of) of the ANKC recongnised sighthound breeds. It is part of the typical demeanour of many of the sighthound breeds, particularly the eastern breeds. And sighthounds as a group DO NOT have a predisposition or reputation for aggression towards humans. If you have a temperament problem in your own breed change whatever you like, but please don't out of ignorance make blanket calls to wipe specific terms out of standards which would affect breeds that ARE NOT a problem. Aloof DOES NOT mean shy nor aggressive.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Diva

[Linda K]

many cats are aloof too - does that mean you want them changed too as otherwise they could become killers any minute. Aloof does not equal killer, and whilst I am not a breeder by any means, I would never interpret aloof to mean that, nor that it is likely to be aggressive at any minute - we had a lab that was the friendliest thing out, but touch my MIL car whilst she was inside it and my MIL was out of it (as would often be the case when you went to the servos where they used to come and fill up for you in the good old days) and she would certainly be all teeth and bark and snarl at the attendant from inside the car - does that mean we should also ban labradors?

[Sue & Rotts]

many cats are aloof too - does that mean you want them changed too as otherwise they could become killers any minute. Aloof does not equal killer, and whilst I am not a breeder by any means, I would never interpret aloof to mean that, nor that it is likely to be aggressive at any minute - we had a lab that was the friendliest thing out, but touch my MIL car whilst she was inside it and my MIL was out of it (as would often be the case when you went to the servos where they used to come and fill up for you in the good old days) and she would certainly be all teeth and bark and snarl at the attendant from inside the car - does that mean we should also ban labradors?

I give up - life's too short; AND 'aloof' was only an example!

[WreckitWhippet]

many cats are aloof too - does that mean you want them changed too as otherwise they could become killers any minute. Aloof does not equal killer, and whilst I am not a breeder by any means, I would never interpret aloof to mean that, nor that it is likely to be aggressive at any minute - we had a lab that was the friendliest thing out, but touch my MIL car whilst she was inside it and my MIL was out of it (as would often be the case when you went to the servos where they used to come and fill up for you in the good old days) and she would certainly be all teeth and bark and snarl at the attendant from inside the car - does that mean we should also ban labradors?

I give up - life's too short; AND 'aloof' was only an example!

and a very poor choice of an example

[jacqui835]

Ummm because " aloof" does not mean aggressive. The word "aloof" is found in the breed standard of dogs such as the Afghan, Basenji and the RR, none of which are currently "restricted" or look like being added to the list, as they are ANKC recognised breeds.

and the point of your post was ?

It doesn't mean friendly either. Do we have some objection to friendly dogs in some breeds?

I'm sorry but I hope the standard isn't changed. I own an aloof doberman. There is a huge difference between aggressive or dangerous and aloof. He is not aggressive, and will tolerate strangers patting him if we're walking down the street. But he is not a labrador who is desperate for everyone to pat him. He barely demonstrates any response at all if anyone pats him other than his family and friends. But when we pat him, he is overjoyed. I don't particularly enjoy it when other dogs are all over me with affection, as I am not someone who is affectionate with people I have just met either. Polite is good enough for me and I don't want all of the breeds to be the same. If you find that aspect of your breed unacceptable, well there are plenty of breeds who respond quite differently in social situations...

[Jed]

My other dog is 'aloof' and 'not given to indiscriminate friendships' - really, she shows often that she is SCARED. Guess which one I will breed from?

Aloof does not equate to "scared". That's a breed fault.

[gila]

What a bizarre thread!

To the person who said most people equate aloof dogs with killers, are you serious?? An aloof dog is more likely to ignore and keep it's distance from strangers. What normal person would freak out and worry that a dog that's not showing any interest in them is suddenly gonna try and take their face off? Why change our dogs and breed standards to cater for idiots?

Oh and I'm "not given to indisriminate friendships" either. Nothing wrong with that.