Keeping Dogs Out Of The Ring To Help Others

[Dogsfevr]

Yes i have pulled my dogs at a show for another to title & would do it again for the right person who would appreciate it.

The people i did it for (now retired from showing( had been in the breed for years,fantastic people who where getting older ,where extremely good sports,great breed ambassadors,good genuine people who simply where struggling to be competitive handlers in a breed that requires running.

The dog whilst not off the class of mine at the time certainly deserved it's title & i had no qualms in pulling my dogs for them to gain those last points ,i new they where starting to cut back on showing & time was running out.

On that day i saw people with tears of joy who where grateful to own another champ even if it meant me pulling my dogs.

They are now retired & still keep in regular contact .

[SnoPaws]

As Bindii said we have two *almost* unbeatable Grand Champions in our breed who are out week in week out.

We were both newbies a year ago and it has taken a year and lots of blood sweat and tears for both of our dogs to be titled but how much sweeter is it when you do win

[RallyValley]

Wouldn't do it either way. A dog should earn its title and I still believe that all dogs should earn at least one 25 pt BOB or a 25 pt BIG to get their Champion Title.

That has got to be one of the most crazy things I have ever heard! If you got togther all the Chessies in Aus currently showing it still wouldn't be a 25point BOB and when you have a breed some judges don't even recognise getting a BIG seems like a far fetched fantasy. If they brought in this rule I would stop showing. We have Grand Ch to award high achieveing dogs.

How can you say that - your dogs sire is an Int CH & a multi BIG winner & RUBIS winner ?

Regardless - this is my opinion and it won't change. Also to date all the dogs I have titled have achieved this - and in Victoria where we don't get light competition.

Because I am probably underestimating judges I would love if judges would come out and know the standard and the breed and stop doing things like picking up the feet to check for webbing or using the measure of ears to the corners of eyes (I don't know where the feet thing comes from, you can see a Chessie has webbed feet standing over him and the ears is a lab thing). But then I have been spoilt recently showing under only international judges who for the most part seem to know the breed. I think if I show long enough and when my boy is at his peak condition under a judge who knows the standard I could maybe pick up a BIG BUT it seems like a lot of "if's" just to get the title Ch.. Especially since showing for me takes a back seat to agility and evetually Obedience

However I do agree that the new Gr Ch rules are well deserved and think it makes the title Gr. Ch an even greater honour.

[Bindii]

As Bindii said we have two *almost* unbeatable Grand Champions in our breed who are out week in week out.

We were both newbies a year ago and it has taken a year and lots of blood sweat and tears for both of our dogs to be titled but how much sweeter is it when you do win :D

[poodlefan]

I have to say that low points in a CC and the merit of the dog don't always have to match up.

A dog belonging to a friend of mine beat 24 out of 25 dogs in the breed on the day to get ... zero. RUBOB to dog of same sex. His CH was mostly small CCs.

Howie's beaten a Royal Show BOB winner (over 60 dogs entered) under an International breed specialist to get .. his class. His title is all small CCs.

You have to take the small victories when you get 'em I suppose.

I think dog showing is one hobby where you'd sure as hell better enjoy the outing because the results can be pretty variable. Mind you if the same dogs won all the time, most of us wouldn't enter.

Edited September 30, 2010 by poodlefan

[conztruct]

conztruct - this girl loved the ring, a real show-off. I was only there to hold the lead, she did the rest herself.

When I retired her I still had to take her to shows, put her show lead on and give her a walk around the ring during the lunch break or she would be most upset.

If that were the case there's no way that you should or be expected to take her out of the ring.......congratulations on the achievements - I'm still gunning for my first BIG

I'm a total newbie - I think most people are happy when I turn up with mine because they usually know they're going to win - LOL. I have a lovely, lovely girl who unfortunately has an incorrect bite - it's a real shame because she loves the ring, thinks she's all that, free-stacks for me and moves like a little champ. It doesn't matter to her or me that we don't win because she has a ball so I keep entering her. A comment from a friend when we went to a show up north last weekend "I think that judge really liked her until she opened the mouth......." LOL.

I guess this comes back to what I was saying about getting enough points to gain a CH title and the standard of the exhibits aren't very closely related. Sure if I pick and choose the right shows, I'll probably eventually get enough challenge points for a title but I don't pick and choose shows or shy away from them because there may or may not be other dogs entered there and I don't really enter for the points but I'm going to bl00dy celebrate long and hard if we get them - hahaha.

Edit to add - I totally agree with the more stringent requirements on the GR CH but let us rank amateuers have our small wins with our 100 point CH. It's not my fault for entering enough shows to get them - if the judges think my dog is cr@p, they don't have to award them.

Edited September 30, 2010 by conztruct

[cowanbree]

I have, both for my own and for other peoples dogs. I have 2 dogs of a similar type, both very nice dogs in their own right and well deserving of their titles but one simply has that little bit of something extra than the other and always beat him. It was a very hard decision as Sterling is consistently competitive in BIG line up. Since then Dash has 4 of 5 possible BOB and a couple of in-groups so is doing really well.

I too was pleased to seen the criteria for Grand change. Still think it is too easy though, in NZ you have to have 3 BIS and 50CCs

[mirawee]

The only time I would not show a dog is to let a bitch get the final points needed for her Ch before having a litter if they are only a few off. Saying that though I don't attend every show anyway

You can tell that those saying you should have to have a 25 point BOB or BIG are from breeds with big numbers. In my opinion the Grand title should be changed and 25 Point BOB not be acceptable as it descriminates against lower number breeds who have to get BIG beating those dogs who might have achieved a 25 point BOB on the same day! Make the playing field fair for all breeds. As it is at the moment breeds such as Dobermans and Labradors can get a Grand title without ever beating another breed.

And personally I don't think that a 25 point BIG is needed for a champion title. But then I have breeds of dog that quite a few judges, both Australian and definitely internationals, still look at as if to wonder what they are :D

[Amstaff_Ambition]

If a dog deserves a title then it must earn it. No dog is undefeatable.

Spot on!

I have done it once, it back fired and another dog took the CC anyway.

I would never ask another to pull a dog so mine could gain points, how pointless is that!

[Paptacular!]

No and no.

I wouldn't expect anyone to do it for me and I'd never ask.

I'd much rather get a title on my dog's own merit.

[Ashanali]

I have Kayo who is a solid coloured Pointer (for those who don't know her). She is actually a very sound bitch but she has never beaten another dog.

I know that I could enter shows here there and everywhere and leave her mother at home to help Kayo get her title, but why should I? I don't want to make a 6pt champion. If a judge thinks Kayo deserves it, they will put her up over other entries. There is no point pulling dogs from the ring so another can get their points, it would be nothing but an empty win.

[Lesley]

I put no to both, but I did pull one of ours a few times in order for a friends boy to get the points.

Her boy was well on his way to his title when he was diagnosed with Cancer.

She became desperate for him to get his title and was scared that time would not be on his side for him to show without causing him discomfort.

So we pulled our boy for 3 shows which gave her the points and when her boy crossed the bridge, he did so a champion.

There is always an exception, but under normal circumstances I think most people like the challenge of earning the points against competition.

The ones who don't are usually the ones who we see will drive to Bullamakankah to ensure points.

Sure their dogs will eventually title, but they know in their own minds what extremes they had to go to to get that title, and that is the meaning behind a petrol champion.

Still for some, they don't care, they just want it anyway they can get it and would no doubt buy it outright if they could.

[WreckitWhippet]

The only time I would not show a dog is to let a bitch get the final points needed for her Ch before having a litter if they are only a few off. Saying that though I don't attend every show anyway

You can tell that those saying you should have to have a 25 point BOB or BIG are from breeds with big numbers. In my opinion the Grand title should be changed and 25 Point BOB not be acceptable as it descriminates against lower number breeds who have to get BIG beating those dogs who might have achieved a 25 point BOB on the same day! Make the playing field fair for all breeds. As it is at the moment breeds such as Dobermans and Labradors can get a Grand title without ever beating another breed.

And personally I don't think that a 25 point BIG is needed for a champion title. But then I have breeds of dog that quite a few judges, both Australian and definitely internationals, still look at as if to wonder what they are :D

That's bollocks. One of mine that I titled very early on was at that time a rare breed and it was rare to get any competition at all, he earnt his title with group, classes in show and a long list of them.

You could take the 25 pointers away from my Staffords and every one of them would still have earnt their title with a BIG. The same goes for my Pointers and the Whippet.

I'd like to see the requirements for a title increased, they are handed out like lollies in some cases and people can still earn them 6 points at a time. I don't buy the " my breed is rare " line

[fbc]

I voted no to both.

To be honest, I'd be a bit offended if someone did that to 'help' my dog get it's title. My dog got his title recently, there is a close-to unbeatable dog in my breed at the moment and we had to beat him to get it but it makes it all the more special!

However, when friends and I go away to shows - interstate or country shows, when we suspect we may be the only Samoyeds there or only a few, we will make sure that our dogs are in different classes so that we don't knock each other out of the challenge/group. I don't think that is uncommon though?

We are in the same boat with a dog in our breed however we have also beaten this dog and i dont mind being beaten by it beacuse its a stunning dog.....guess that makes mine stunning too

I think thats a great idea and I would do the same thing

No and No.

A champion from weak competition is just as bad as no competition and petrol champions. I like a large entry of good quality dogs. At least the CC will have some meaning.

If others want to win CC's then they can breed a dog that's competitive.

As a side note: I have known people to withdraw their dogs so others don't get the points needed to make a champion on the day. A stupid and petty thing to do.

Unfortunately me too I was shocked and disapointed to learn this

[WreckitWhippet]

It makes sense and it's nice for friendships to split your dogs and bitches over the classes, if you are travelling with or meeting up with someone you know for a weekend. Beats knocking each other out from the get go.

Some exhibitors worry far to much about who's going where and what they are taking. Some of the biggest whingers, when it comes to competition, are those who fail to train and get their dogs working properly in the ring.

[Dogsfevr]

The only time I would not show a dog is to let a bitch get the final points needed for her Ch before having a litter if they are only a few off. Saying that though I don't attend every show anyway

You can tell that those saying you should have to have a 25 point BOB or BIG are from breeds with big numbers. In my opinion the Grand title should be changed and 25 Point BOB not be acceptable as it descriminates against lower number breeds who have to get BIG beating those dogs who might have achieved a 25 point BOB on the same day! Make the playing field fair for all breeds. As it is at the moment breeds such as Dobermans and Labradors can get a Grand title without ever beating another breed.

And personally I don't think that a 25 point BIG is needed for a champion title. But then I have breeds of dog that quite a few judges, both Australian and definitely internationals, still look at as if to wonder what they are :D

That's bollocks. One of mine that I titled very early on was at that time a rare breed and it was rare to get any competition at all, he earnt his title with group, classes in show and a long list of them.

You could take the 25 pointers away from my Staffords and every one of them would still have earnt their title with a BIG. The same goes for my Pointers and the Whippet.

I'd like to see the requirements for a title increased, they are handed out like lollies in some cases and people can still earn them 6 points at a time. I don't buy the " my breed is rare " line

Maybe you should all come over to Perth for a year of showing & then decide how easy it is.

[WreckitWhippet]

You can't win.. People complain if you show your CH or GR CH's, whinge if you pull them and they can't get enough points, whinge when you win and take their points

I've given up worrying about it and those that have whinged about me showing mine, I go and play on their doorsteps and go that bit further where I normally wouldn't, just to shit them :D

[Tambaqui]

I've voted no to both!

I am new to showing and it's been a year since I showed my Min Pin and I have yet to get him titled! It's great hearing those who is new to showing getting their first dog titled, I hope my day will soon come! *fingers crossed*

I am still proud of the fact he has done so well in the short time, he won me a box full of Rosettes, Sashes and Ribbons!

He is only on 55 Points and his best is a 9 Point Challenge (Went RUBOB that day)! His biggest win is Reserve Challenge at a Specialty to a Grand Champion he is yet to defeat! But some points he had no competitions on the day and there has been others where he had to beat to get the points.

I get told this time and time again which is true! The judge do have the right to not award Challenges/BOB!

So no I wouldn't ask anybody to pull their dogs out so I can get points and I wouldn't even pull any of mine out for someone to get their dogs title!

I've paid for the entry for the Judges opinion of my dog on the day and for a day of relaxation after working during the week and that is what I will continue to do!

[SpikesPuppy]

I don't see why a dog should have a BIG win to prove it's worth as a Champion. Just because a dog is a common fixture in the Show line up doesn't necessarily make it the best example of it's breed and vice versa.

Aside from that, why is my BISS and RUBIG winning bitch less worthy because she beat 88 instead of 89 dogs???

One of our dogs will title on mostly 6 pointers, through no fault of her or our own. We travel all over the place to shows- both metro Melbourne and country/ag shows as well as specialities and interstate.

I believe once she hits about 3 years of age and settles into herself she will do very well for herself, but at 2 years old she is still incredibly immature. But she has no real faults. Actually, many experienced exhibitors would probably withdraw her from the ring until she came together but mum has kept her out there to gain the experience etc.

I ave no problems with the Grand Champion title being for the exceptional animals but I believe the Champion title is just a formal way of saying "this is a very good dog of xxx breed".

As for the original question, I have no interest in pulling a dog so one can title nor would I be likely to do it for someone else except in extreme circumstances. I show my dogs where I like, when I like. The competition or lack thereof has no bearing on whether I enter a show or not.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Yes i have pulled my dogs at a show for another to title & would do it again for the right person who would appreciate it.

The people i did it for (now retired from showing( had been in the breed for years,fantastic people who where getting older ,where extremely good sports,great breed ambassadors,good genuine people who simply where struggling to be competitive handlers in a breed that requires running.

The dog whilst not off the class of mine at the time certainly deserved it's title & i had no qualms in pulling my dogs for them to gain those last points ,i new they where starting to cut back on showing & time was running out.

On that day i saw people with tears of joy who where grateful to own another champ even if it meant me pulling my dogs.

They are now retired & still keep in regular contact .

I think this shows a lot of compassion and insight. People contribute to the breed in different ways, and sometimes breeding a top winning all breeds show pony is not actually contributing to the breed anyway.