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3 Month Puppy With A Bad Habit


Gibbo
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Morning all,

This is my first post so go easy.

I've searched around the Forum looking for a answer but to no-avail....

The Back ground -

Wilbur is a 3 month old - pure bred - gold -cocker-spaniel.

He sleeps in our Laundry with open door access to our back yard.

Every morning at approx 5am - he wakes up and starts the puppy 'crying' :thumbsup: - after about 3-5 minutes this graduates into a full on barking session in an attempt to get our attention (i'm guessing).

When I've had enough - 20-30 miuntes later - (my fiance manages to sleep through it :laugh:: ) I go out to him and take him out to the back yard and he has his toilet break (if he hasn't already).

He has been doing this for about 3 out of the 4 weeks we've had him (we got him on New Years Day).

My fiance and I spend plenty of time with him - and he doesn't bark etc while we are out at work during the day (he is too busy digging up the garden i think).

Its almoist as if he has to make sure I'm still there everymorning. I would really like to continue having him in his area (the laundry) and to once in a while have a sleep in.

Thanks in advance for any advice - Gibbo

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Hi there,

congratulations on your gorgeous puppy (I'm assuming he's the one in the pic!)

both our puppies had 4.30 am bladders at about that age - he might just want a toilet break and then will settle back down. you may have just very well house trained puppy who doesn't want to go inside!!

with our furry kids i find if i take them out they do go back to sleep or amuse themselves until i get up - don't worry - it shouldn't go on forever i wouldn't think but others will have good suggestions too. At eight months nina can hold on from about 10 pm to 7 am the next morning with no desire to go out before then.

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Hi Gibbo,

ahhh the joys of no longer sleeping in :rofl:

my dog at 9 months still wakes at 6am, on the dot, she then goes to the window to "check" if the suns up and then comes and wakes me :laugh:

As pups get older they will be able to hold on for longer , just make sure your pup gets his last wees in just before you go to bed , in the end you'll find they sleep in longer .

We take turns at home so one of us at least gets to sleep in a few mornings , you might want to discuss this with your fiance as there is nothing worse then not getting enough sleep while he snores on :love:

Edited , grrr I should wake up before posting :champagne: , I see he has access to the backyard so it's just a case of I'm up , why aren't you.

I'd go along with sidoney's advice :thumbsup:

Edited by Christina77
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Is the puppy still barking when you go to him? It's unclear from your post whether he's still barking or whether he's stopped.

If he's still barking, you are reinforcing him for barking - for lots of barking! You would need to immediately stop going to him when he's barking and only go to him when he's quiet.

I would suggest that you set your alarm for 4.30am, before he starts, and go to him and wake him up (hence going to him when quiet and rewarding that) and taking him out for a toilet break. Don't play with him or do any more than just take him out and back in, or else he'll keep looking for his early morning play sessions.

Then if he starts barking at 5am you can just let him do it knowing that he's been attended to already (are the neighbours being disturbed) and not go to him until he is quiet, at a more reasonable time of day.

Gradually as he matures you can start to take him out later, say 4.40, 4.50, and so on. And don't get him "up for the morning" until a little later, you could also start working that later until you get him "up for the morning" at your morning time.

As he's been in the habit of early morning barking, you will need to be very consistent with NOT rewarding him for barking. You might find the barking goes up at first (extinction burst - goes up before it goes down), and it might take some time to resolve as he's already in the habit of this behaviour. However if you are consistent it will resolve.

Let us know how you go.

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We have a paved back yard - so his toilet breaks show up pretty well out there - He is pretty well trained. When i went out to the back yard this morning - there were 3 wee spots on the pavers - one very fresh one - so i'm not sure about the need for a toilet break. I wish i could sleep in like my fiance

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Ah, sorry, I missed that it was open and he could pee outside.

In that case, you need to ignore the barking. Put a pillow over your head if you need to. It might take some time to resolve but unless you stop going to him in the early morning he won't get over it.

Does he stop eventually if ignored or does he keep going? One problem might be that he is being self rewarded for barking.

I would hesitate to suggest any aversive training at this stage as he is really such a baby.

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Hi Gibbo. :champagne:

3 weeks of puppy crying! geez!

I also have a puppy who will be 12 weeks old tomorrow.

Sooki has spent an absolute minimum of time 'crying' and doesn't cry at all now; not even when she is penned so that I can leave her for a time.

I've kept her with me during the night.

She has had to go outside to toilet twice a night and still does.

She wakes me around 5:30am and we go to the beach so no problem.

I can't see it being a toilet problem from where I stand because your pup must be going during the night.

My feeling is that dogs are associative and affiliative creatures who need full and complete access to their carers and their family.

IMO you are blocking his access to you by keeping him separated from you, especially at such a young age. (Hey, you others, I am ready to realign my views if I come across evidence to the contrary or some logically reasoned arguement).

We can't know how much company they need but my bitch goes off on her own when she is maxed out.

Lonely?

I could go on about the cycle of helplessness that develops in their mammal cousins (humans) from loneliness, but I won't.

So, no advice, no judgement, just another anecdote for you to see another perspective.

Good Luck.

:thumbsup:

Edit: female gender to male. :laugh:

Edited by pewithers
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Is the puppy still barking when you go to him? It's unclear from your post whether he's still barking or whether he's stopped.

he does stop once i go to him - also the rest of your post does make sense.

The Neighbours aren't getting annoyed (that i know of) - i'll just need to grit the teeth and bear it.

He has chew-toys to play with etc so i don't think it is boredom. He sleeps pretty much all day and gets play time at night.

He's off to the vet on wednesday for this 2nd round of shots so i might start walking him a bit further (and harder) to try and wear him out.

He is such a clever little thing -

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OK then, if you go to him and then he stops, you are rewarding him for barking. In a way that makes stopping the barking easier, as the barking is linked to a reward - you going to him. You have a strong barking behaviour there as he is being rewarded for LOTS of duration, that is, barking for a long time.

Once you stop going to him when barking, you need to be 100% consistent in not going to him. If you ignore him for 5 mornings and in frustration go to him on the 6th, you make that behaviour much stronger again, as he will know that sometimes he gets rewarded and sometimes not, so it's worth trying again even if he didn't get rewarded the last few times.

Let me repeat that, as it's so important:

Once you decide to stop rewarding his barking by stopping going to him, you have to stop FOREVER.

At first his barking will increase - the extinction burst. Trainers use that "burst" to get more, better, faster behaviour out of their dog - they will reward the higher level. You DON'T want to do that.

You can practice "staying quiet in the laundry" through the day. Can he get into the laundry during the day? When he's in there and quiet, go to him and give him pats, play, treats.

If you put him in there in, say, the afternoon, and he barks, he's likely to be quiet faster than in the morning, the rehearsed time. You could wait till he quiets, then tell him good boy while you go to him, and reward him. All these things will help him to know what you DO want.

Regarding why he's barking, yes he's doing it for the company. Dogs are social creatures, but to fit in with human lives, they do need to learn to be alone at times.

Regarding the walking, don't overdo the walking as their bones and joints are soft and you could do damage. As well as some walking, play with your puppy and run around with him off leash. Also do some training with him - clicker or any positive reinforcement training is ideal for puppies - the mental work will tire him out and help him sleep :thumbsup: as well as increase the strength of your relationship with him.

Edited by sidoney
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This is possibly the best advice yet - thanks sidoney - i like the way you've thought out the positive aspects of leaving him be. - i do agree that he will learn to fit into our lifestyle - which i think suits the cocker-spaniel breed to a tee. Thanks

I think i've been a little too worried about what the neighbours will think - and not rewarding him enough when he is quiet and on his bed during other times. He's generally a good Dog and i think i've brought this problem on myself.

The laundry is his 'den' and he knows it - he loves it in there. He can get out of the heat as the door is always open or he can curl up in the warm corners when it is cool. He will toddle him self off to bed when he wants to - this is the only place he'll sleep when around the house.

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Oh the joys of puppies Gibbo :laugh: One of my boys did the same thing when I first got him, I tried my hardest to ignore him but it got to the stage where I could no longer stand it.

I ended up using spray bottle and I hided out near where he slept and the second he started he got a spray of water then I praised him alot the second he stopped, I think I woke half the house up praising him but after a few goes he stopped and they next night I didnt hear a whimper out of him.

Sleep is so precious when you deprived of it, have fun with you pup :wave:

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Oh the joys of puppies Gibbo :laugh: One of my boys did the same thing when I first got him, I tried my hardest to ignore him but it got to the stage where I could no longer stand it.

I ended up using spray bottle and I hided out near where he slept and the second he started he got a spray of water then I praised him alot the second he stopped, I think I woke half the house up praising him but after a few goes he stopped and they next night I didnt hear a whimper out of him.

Sleep is so precious when you deprived of it, have fun with you pup :wave:

we aren't at panic stations yet - and if i need sleep i can always shut all the doors - it is mainly just the anooyance factor. But i guess a few weeks of the ignore 100% the bark - praise the quiet tactic will pay off in the long term.

Plus i just bought some 3 clickers ( i presume they get worn out after a while) from Black-dog after the you guys and the Puppy school recomended them over the phone.

Cheers

animal08.gif

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Hi Gibbo. :wave:

If I need sleep I can always shut all the doors - it is mainly just the anooyance factor.  But I guess a few weeks of the ignore 100% the bark - praise the quiet tactic will pay off in the long term.

It's your call.

I just hope your house doesn't catch fire one night while you are happily ignoring your 'animal'. :laugh:

Communication. :wave:

Nah! Dogs can't communicate. :shakehead:

:wave:

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Okay i'll take that bait!

I'm not sure where that came from. I've been on this Forum for a week and i'm already getting flamed - thats a Personal Best!

If you have read the thread in context - the idea of "ignoring" the dog is to avoid the attention barking - and remove this behavior - that i have already taken responsibility for - not to avoid the dog all together.

I will be praising/treating/clicking (when it arrives) when he is quiet the correct times.

When this is trained - i will know that when he is barking continually it will be for a good reason (e.g. house burning down) other than attention.

It's a two way street in my family - Some times when i want to play with the pup - he is often asleep. Even though i could, I don't want to wake him up so i leave him. He has me trained to be nice - and i think it fair that I will train him to be nice.

Sorry Forum mods et. al. I had to have a swing at that one.

Edited by Gibbo
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Is it getting bright (daylight) at 4.30am? If it is this might also be a reason for him getting up. dogs live by daylight mainly so with first signs of it they wake up and expect us to get up as well. It is up to us to train them to suit our lives.

Sidoneys advice is spot on

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Hi Gibbo,

Sidoney's advice has been excellent (as usual) and I have been taking notes so thanks for the post in general.

Don't worry about being "flamed" - I think there would be other signs if your house was on fire and having puppies in the bedroom to sleep is not for everyone!!

Take care and I hope things improve it is only early days!

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PMd you,

I clicker train my pup and he has learnt soo much and loves his training. He doesnt whinge or cry anymore when i decide to put him in his den or outside for awhile because i ignored his crying from the start of it.

My dogs only sleep inside/in my room during winter or cold/wet nights when it is hotter they fair better outside as it is cooler out then in.

Good luck with training and Sidoneys advice is excellent you should follow that to a T

I guess dogs arent animals then?? :laugh:

Natasha

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Personally, I entrust the fire safety of my home to a hard wired, externally monitored smoke detector - it protects me AND my dogs. Dogs suffer from smoke inhalation and die in house fires too - looks like two kelpies did that here in the last few days.

Puppies are like babies - while they are young, they don't tend to sleep through. I suggest he is barking for attention. The presence of some interesting toys and perhaps a slightly later bed time may help. However, as with all babies, sleep deficit does seem to happen for a while. :laugh:

I agree with Sidoney's advice - particularly on limiting on lead exercise until your pup has reached its full height. Concrete paths and time on lead don't help growing bones. Off lead play would be better at this early age as the pup will have more control over the amount of exercise it has before it feels tired.

On the communication side, you will soon learn to recognise that your dog has more than one bark. I know my dogs have a "general" bark, hunting bark, an alarm bark and an attention seeking bark - all quite different. :wave:

Edited by poodlefan
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You will also learn that your dog will comminucate things to you by showing you things with his paws, by facial expressions, by the body language.

It is important to learn it and so very helpfull in everyday life with your pooch.

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