What Exactly Are The "papers" Puppies Come With?

[RiverStar-Aura]

Not wanting to sound like a moron but like the topic title asks, what are these "papers" pure bred dogs should come with? And what does it mean for a dog to be registered with Dogs NSW on the "main register"?

I'm new to all this stuff and I'm still learning. Poochie wasn't registered and I'm not sure if she should've been. When did the registering laws come into effect?

Thanks in advance!

[pixie_meg]

Registered breeders supply pedigree papers that prove that your pup is registered with a state controlling body.

These papers state who the parents are and who the breeder is. It is proof that your dog is in fact a pure bred dog.

Dogs are either on the main register or limited. Limited means your dog is not to be bred from or shown at dog shows. Main registered dogs can be shown at conformation shows.

Many dogs are not registered as the breeder may not be a registered breeder. They may be a BYB.

[bullyfan]

I'll quote from Victoria's information...... Registration with Dogs Victoria(NSW/Tas/WA/SA etc...) is different to council registration, which is required by law. Please register your new dog with the Council in which you reside.

Any dog can be registered with Dogs Victoria.

The differences between the Purebred Register and the Associate Register is that to be on the Purebred Register your dog has to be of known, recognised and registered parentage of the same breed. (This was what was refered to when people mentioned "papers")

A pedigreed purebred dog can be listed on either the Main Register (blue certificate in Victoria) or Limited Register (Orange certificate in Victoria)

A dog on the main register (blue certificate) has full rights. The dogs on this register can be shown in confirmation shows in order to gain titles and may be bred from to other Main register dogs of the same breed and have their progeny registered as purebreds.

The Limited register (Orange certificate) indicated that a dog is pedigreed but cannot be shown at confirmation shows nor can the dog be bred with and have the progeny registered as pedigreed puppies.

To be on the Associated register a dog does not need to have known parentage. Dogs on any of these Registers are eligible to compete in Obedience, agility and many other trials and dog sports. Dogs must be desexed to be included on the Associate Register.

Hopethat answers your question!

I dont know the limited reg colours in NSW but I believe Main register is also blue.

[Sheridan]

A dog on the main register (blue certificate) has full rights

Given animal rights whackos, this sentence made me giggle.

[shortstep]

Hum lots of big words there, not sure if I was new to this I would understand.

Registered means that the dog is listed with a dog breeding club of some sort. Papers are the record of this.

On DOL they usually mean registered with Australian Kennel Club, but being a federation everything has to be over complicated so that means each state has their own club, which they refere to as the State Controlling body (the only thing they control is people who what to be part of their club).

This orgnizations foundations go back to the time of Queen Victoria, when upper classed people started to want to breed animal that were also upper classed. The royals only inbred with other royals so it began with their dogs too. Thus began ' Pedigreed ' meaning of pure inbred blood. Just as the royal family was a closed inbred gene pool, so did the dog breeds become. Stud books were kept and all pedigrees (list of ancestors) of the puppies were recorded (registered = papers ). No riff raff allowed! Once the stud book was closed for a breed, only dogs already listed in the stud book could make the next generation. So here we are today still breeding dogs to the same Victorian ideals. These registires are also known as Kennel Clubs ar as Show dog clubs as breeding for apperance (called the standard, which is a written discription of what the dogs is suppose to look like) has always been the priority for selection criterior and dog shows is where you prove your dogs have the correct look. A dog that does well in the show ring is awarded a Champion status. (please note that these days champions can also be dogs that have done a perfomance or activity to a level of excellence).

So what does it mean to you, likely not much at all. If you want to do dog sports in the ANKC then you can likely get your dogs on the Associate register (sign your dogs up as rift raff and they will let you play).

Now there are also lots of other registires, some date back as far as or even before the first kennel clubs. There are other sorts of kennel clubs where they want a different structure or model, these are becoming more popular. I think the future of purebred dogs may rest in some of these organizations, as they will have greater ability to be flexable and not cemented in the old way of doing things. They may be able to address the changing needs of breeders and the public. UKC mentioned in the Klee thread is one of these other kennel clubs and has been around a very long time.

There are also many working dogs registries where the goals for their breeds are about breeding for their working traits. Many of these working registires have been swallowed up in the past by the show registeried, but these days it does not happen so easily and there can be great battles over breeds and their futures. There are also breed regisities for new breeds, or breeds that do not want to be in the kennel club or for what ever reason they want.

Everything is really is changing as far as registries are concerned, even the defintion of a breed is changing. So stay tuned!

Hope this helps a little.

Edited March 31, 2011 by shortstep

[pixie_meg]

Hum lots of big words there, not sure if I was new to this I would understand.

Registered means that the dog is listed with a dog breeding club of some sort.

On DOL they usually mean registered with Australian Kennel Club, but being a federation everything has to be over complicated so that means each state has their own club, which they refere to as the State Controlling body (the only thing they control is people who what to be part of their club).

This orgnizations foundations go back to the time of Queen Victoria, when upper classed people started to want to breed animal that were also upper classed. The royals only inbred with other royals so it began with their dogs too. Thus began ' Pedigreed ' meaning of pure inbred blood. Just as the royal family was a closed inbred gene pool, so did the dog breeds become. Stud books were kept and all pedigree (list of ancestors) recorded. No riff raff allowed! Once the stud book was closed for a breed, only dogs already listed in the stud book could make the next generation. So here we are today still breeding dogs to the same Victorian ideals. These registires are also known as Kennel Clubs ar as Show dog clubs as breeding for apperance (called the standard, which is a written discription of what the dogs is suppose to look like) has always been the priority for selection criterior and dog shows is where you prove your dogs have the correct look. A dog that does well in the show ring is awarded a Champion status. (please note that these days champions can also be dogs that have done a perfomance or activity to a level of excellence).

So what does it mean to you, likely not much at all. If you want to do dog sports in the ANKC then you can likely get your dogs on the Associate register (sign your dogs up as rift raff and they will let you play).

Now there are also lots of other registires, some date back as far as or even before the first kennel clubs. There are other sorts of kennel clubs where they want a different structure or model, these are becoming more popular. I think the future of purebred dogs may rest in some of these organizations, as they will have greater ability to be flexable and not cemented in the old way of doing things. They may be able to address the changing needs of breeders and the public. UKC mentioned in this thread is one of these other kennel clubs and has been around a very long time.

There are also many working dogs registries where the goals for their breeds are about breeding for their working traits. Many of these working registires have been swallowed up in the past by the show registeried, but these days it does not happen so easily and there can be great battles over breeds and their futures. There are also breed regisities for new breeds, or breeds that do not want to be in the kennel club or for what ever reason they want.

Everything is really is changing as far as registries are concerned, even the defintion of a breed is changing. So stay tuned!

Hope this helps a little.

TBH,not sure it sounds like you're helping the OP with their question. More confusing them, i'd say. They asked about what the papers are, not what seems like a negative view of the pedigree dog world.

The bolded bit. Dog shows being about looks, well only so much as the breed standard relates to the breed being fit for the function of their job. And obviously some of these breeds need to look at being fit for function again. Also, talking about inbreeding royals and inbreeding dogs in the same sentence is a bit silly.

[shortstep]

The bolded bit. Dog shows being about looks, well only so much as the breed standard relates to the breed being fit for the function of their job. And obviously some of these breeds need to look at being fit for function again. Also, talking about inbreeding royals and inbreeding dogs in the same sentence is a bit silly.

Hey I stop short of the next bit usually mentioned. LOL

Back then they used the latest science to develope their dog breeding ideas, peas and all that.

We should be open to that idea again today, as we know a lot more about genetics.

But in my defense, 'papers' are representing registration and that means a lot of things depending on where the dog is registered.

So yea, the royals are part of it.

But there is nothing wrong with catching the eye of the Royals!

Some say these dogs were border collies some say they were the foundation of the bench collie.

In either case, how lovely!

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...enVictoria.html

Edited March 31, 2011 by shortstep

[Red Fox]

Not wanting to sound like a moron but like the topic title asks, what are these "papers" pure bred dogs should come with? And what does it mean for a dog to be registered with Dogs NSW on the "main register"?

I'm new to all this stuff and I'm still learning. Poochie wasn't registered and I'm not sure if she should've been. When did the registering laws come into effect?

Thanks in advance!

Put simply;

The papers you are referring to are ANKC. They are, in short, your dogs birth certificate and proof of parentage.

They will show a 3 generation pedigree of the puppy you have purchased.

The papers will be main - meaning the dog can be shown (ANKC conformation), and (provided you are a registered breeder with the ANKC) bred from.

*Of course you can breed with any dog but only a registered breeder with mains registered dogs can breed registered (papered) puppies.

Or they will be limited (pet dog) which means the dog cannot be shown or bred from regardless of if you are a registered breeder or not.

Either can compete in dog sports. Unregistered and/or cross bred dogs can compete on the associate register.

A registered breeder must provide you with a copy of the pups papers (usually limited register for pets) and will not charge "extra" for them.

There are other registeries within Australia and overseas. Working registeries are equally valid, however as a pet owner ANKC is the one which you will be looking for.

Hope that helps.

[MonElite]

The dogs that are on a Associate register (mainly cross breeds) need to be desexed.

they are also registered as Billy, Fido, Max etc, their call name, rather then pedigree name (which they dont have)

So pedgiree papers are a birth certificate of a pedigree dog.

Edited March 31, 2011 by MonElite

[RiverStar-Aura]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've been told that my future puppy will be registered with Dogs NSW on the Main Register but I had no idea what that meant and I've heard that pure bred puppies come with papers but have never really known what they were.

I now understand!! Was just worried that my pup was being sold without papers!

[SparkyTansy]

A registered breeder must provide you with a copy of the pups papers (usually limited register for pets) and will not charge "extra" for them.

Except in WA... a breeder is required to register ALL LIVING puppies, but they are NOT required to give the papers to the new owner. I am not quite sure why this is, but it is still done. Some people withold the papers until pups are desexed etc.

And... I would run a mile if a breeder told me that pups cost $X or $X+ for papers.