Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) EDIT to say: Bindi is going back to her family and they are going to continue looking for a rental where they can take her, or a home where she will get what she needed. Thanks for your advice and help Hi everyone, A local couple were needing temporary (possibly permanent) rehoming of their Border Collie girl, so I offered to take her in here just in case they can find a new rental where they can keep dogs, and if not, either keep her, or rehome her somewhere lovely. We dropped over yesterday as apparently she's normally good with other dogs, so myself and the 3 kiddos and our Kelpie x Koolie boy went to visit. As soon as we got to the front door she went wild, barking and pulling and looking like she wanted to kill him. I thought because it was her territory it was obviously not going to work that way (the owners wanted to meet us/our dog before we took her), so I offered for them to come out to our place today to drop her off as they need to move very very soon. Well I can say that she's WONDERFUL with people and kids, but she still tries to attack our boy, as well as the pig and the rabbit. I get the feeling maybe she's not as socialised as they thought. I understand she's scared and this is all new/strange for her, and I want this to be as good of an experience for her as possible. How do I get her to fit into our home and stop her aggression towards our dog and other animals? About Bindi: She's a 2.5 year undesexed Border Collie She's lived with her 2 owners in a backyard by herself and they both work. She sits and drops on command She loves balls/chasing things including birds (even the windscreen wipers in the car sent her into a spin!) She is wonderful with kids and people and has quickly learnt that I am alpha and she must do what I require of her although she still has a hard time controlling herself from attacking the animals. She's on a leash at all times while she is here so far. Our poor 7 yr old Kelpie x is such a sook, generally he can hold his own, but he just looks at me with sad eyes when she tries to attack him and then stands behind me, or goes to his blanket, he's never one for confrontation but never one to back down if he really feels his territory is at threat. I actually feel bad for him right now. So how do I help this girl control her aggression and co-exist with other animals? So far I just pull right back on her lead and give her a firm NO BINDI and a harsh talking to, if she keeps going I have been giving her a smack on the nose along with the NO and the firm talking too. We have been giving her reassuring pats when she's doing the right thing, and don't have toys or food around them. She layed down for a belly rub when Yoshi was in the same room but then when she stood up and I went to walk her back out she attacked again. He just sits there and watches her. Any pointers or ideas or links to good info would be great, thanks, Loreena Edited May 2, 2011 by Inspired1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I think perhaps it is dangerous for YOUR animals to have this dog in your house No ideas on how to curb her prey drive .... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks, yes our boy is wondering what's happening, but I truly think she's just scared senseless and overwhelmed. I'm willing to give her a little time to settle as she can't do enough to get close to people and just earlier she wet herself when the pig got too close thru the gate. I think it's obviously a very scary environment fo her, so perhaps just some time to settle in and realise she's not in danger might be in order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Put Bindi in a crate with a cover over half of it. Put your Kelpie in the same room and leave them for quite a long time, a day or overnight. See if that helps Bindi come around. Borders can be sensitive little souls so give her time to settle. Keep the other pets away from her at the moment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) How do I get her to fit into our home and stop her aggression towards our dog and other animals? I think the more important questions to ask are why would you put your own animals under the stress of such a situation and how can such a dog be safely/responsibly rehomed. So far I just pull right back on her lead and give her a firm NO BINDI and a harsh talking to, if she keeps going I have been giving her a smack on the nose along with the NO and the firm talking too. This is probably going to make it worse and it certainly isn't going to destress the dog. Sounds to me like you've taken on a dog that's outside your capacity to deal with on your own. Keep it up and she may end up biting you. Either get a qualified professsional assessment of this dog or return her. She sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Sounds to me like its possible you've been told a bit of a story by the previous owners. Edited May 2, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I would second what JulesP said. BCs can be very sensative and very oriented to their own pack. She needs time to adjust to her new enviroment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Fearful aggression is not an easy one . Poor Bindi is very overwhelmed, stressed and feeling the need to defend. Whether it will improve or not is best left to a professional . I think an assessment is in order - THEN work out if there is a program which may help. Our poor 7 yr old Kelpie x is such a sook, generally he can hold his own, but he just looks at me with sad eyes when she tries to attack him and then stands behind me, or goes to his blanket, I couldn't do that to one of my dogs Edited May 2, 2011 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) If you think she has fear aggression, I would definitely NOT correct her and especially not smack her on the nose which isn't the best way to correct a dog and possibly dangerous especially considering you don't know her that well. Can you get the previous owners to pay for a visit from a behaviourist who might be able to work out what is going on and whether this dog will be suitable to live with you. I am afraid I could not keep a dog who was acting aggressively towards my other pets unless I had a specialised set up and could guarantee my pets safety and was working with a behaviourist. Edited May 2, 2011 by aussielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks everyone for your input. She has improved remarkably already, and on your advice have not tapped her nose again. She definitely looks to humans for guidance on behaviour and wants to please. Please don't think I am irresponsible with her, she is separated from the other animals and is only introduced to Yoshi on a lead and has constant positive reinforcement and affection from everyone here. The pig is a difficulty but I will work out something tomorrow, Bindi only arrived this afternoon. Yes, right now I do feel bad that she had not seamlessly fit in here. The young couple are not likely to pay for a beahviouralist nor do I know if there are any locally. I have a feeling she has done puppy preschool and then had very little interaction with animals other than chasing birds in the back yard. I am willing to give her a couple of days of exploring and settling and doing the best I can with her, if she doesn't settle then perhaps she is suited to a single dog/animal family. Right now she just wanders back to the spot her owners car was when they dropped her. It's making me so sad for her! If we didn't have other animals he would just snuggle. I guess my big heart has maybe not served me the best this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Perhaps get in touch with a rescue group , and do it all formally? Pop into the rescue threads on here - maybe someone can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It really is too early to tell is it is true aggression or if she is just scared out of her wits. Slow everything down and let her get comfortable before trying to introduce her to anyone. I personally wouldn't have even introduced her to any of your other animals yet, she needs to bond with you first. You have to remember you are strangers to her. Not many adult dogs will fit in seamlessly, I always say it takes 6-8 weeks to see the true dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecollie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi Inspired 1.. Firstly,as a BC Rescuer I say good on you for giving this girl a chance From what I've read I'm guessing this girl has never actually run with other dogs freely, only on a lead walking in a park situation etc. When you arrived at their house with your boy it does sound more of a territorial behaviour which she's continuing with at your boy still. BCs never forget a threat! This escalated by the fact she is now seperated from her pack (old owners) scared in a strange place with more dogs that she's interpreting as 'more threats'.. I think your best approach now is to give her a space of her own for a little bit - a seperate run outside of a day or if necessary a crate like Jules said- where she can observe the goings on in your home without being under any pressure to fit the mould just yet... I have had many troubled rescued BCs come into my care displaying the same basic behaviour and after a few days like this you will see a difference in her, it is then up to you to judge whether she has shown enough progress for you to feel comfortable enough with her to continue your efforts. Where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Hi Blue Collie, thank you so much for the words of encouragement. I almost feel like calling the old owners and telling them we just can't do it, but the other half of me wants to give her a chance here! She really is a sweet girl and would hate to see her go to a pound or anything of the likes. We are near Port Macquarie, so not all that far from you if you are Newcastle. Tonight hubby was sitting with her in the lounge room holding her on a loose lead and I was on the lounge, she definitely knows I am "safe" for her as she made her way over. Both dogs were fine for some time until she decided otherwise and had a go. My boy doesn't retaliate so it's not a "fight" and she hasn't hurt him, it looks serious but more her trying to protect herself from a percieved threat I think. We have given her her own Space in the laundry/mud room so she can be warm and cosy to sleep. My worry is that even if she does settle that I will not ever be able to really trust her and one of our children might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I probably sound stupid taking her on at all, but she deserves a loving home and her owners were desperate and expecting a baby and needing to leave their current house. Any pointers or ideas you have would be much appreciated Blue collie, thank you!! I absolutely understand She has had an overwhelming day! I am feeling a bit teary at the moment wondering I I have done a dumb thing, she's not a bad dog but maybe our house is bad for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 You have done a very good thing and saved this dog from the pound Unfortunately as you said she doesn't fit in that well at the moment. Other experienced BC people have given you advice which is great. I still recommend you see a behaviourist, especially if you are feeling overwhelemed. They can also give you a better idea of whether she is rehomable or not. Or as others have said you could contact a rescue group and do it formally. Australian working dog rescue may be able to help: AWDR And I'm sure if you pop into the rescue forum they will be able to help you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 As others said re behaviourist and other great advice. You need guidance, patience and time to integrate this beautiful girl into your household. My rescue boy was reacting in a very similar manner when he arrived. He was not "aggressive". He was just very scared and did not understand what was happening. It took me 3 months to fully integrate him into our family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Sorry but I am going to give you more different advice. I know it feels like the right thing to do but please don't shower her with affection. By doing this you are reinforcing her fears and complicating the environment. There will be plenty of time for affection once she has settled. When i have brought a dog home like this I find the best thing to do is tie it to my waist for about a week & go about my business. This way everyone is safe & she has an unthreatening environment to get used to. When this is not possible, the dog should be kept away from other animals & people. Don't bend the rules for her. She will be better with clear boundaries. I find it takes at least 2-3 weeks for a new dog to settle enough that you can really assess their temperament. Good luck Edited May 2, 2011 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Ps another thing I would be doing is regular short leash walks with your other dog (someone else walking him). Don't encourage them to interact, just walk. Make sure you are far enough apart that she is not reacting to him, although from what you've described I suspect she will probably be fine walking side by side. You are lucky your other dog is so nice, things could be a whole lot worse if he was reacting to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks again everyone. She truly is a beautiful dog and will definitely make a wonderful family pet. Her tail was out from between her legs a little more this morning. She was walking on leash in the yard, and my boy was playing with a soccer ball, she is fine having him there and isn't constantly trying to attack or anything, but she did have a little lunge at him, so I have walked her around a little more and she's back in the laundry now so not to meet the pig this morning. We are on an acre and surrounded by 300 acres so she is hearing cows and seeing cars that is something she's definitely not used to. I will contact the owners and the animal rescue group locally today to see if they have someone locally who can give a hand. I think I was overwhelmed and emotional in my first post, but he isn't an attack dog by any means and does tolerate Yoshi being around, but of course only time and correct direction will tell if she can be rehomed with other animals. When we went back to the bird aviary this morning her first instinct was to jump and try and chase, but with simple reinforcement and redirection she moved on so it's not all bad will see how we go taking things one step at a time anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 you need someone who can properly assesss the dog's temperament and help her in a more professional capacity. I would not be rehoming a dog that has shown behaviour like this to anyone without a behavioural assessment at all. She's shown some pretty serious flaws in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired1 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 P.S. Thanks Vickie, your advice is helpful. Yes you are right we are VERY blessed with our boy, I have realised just how blessed over the last 12 hrs We rehomed him age 5 and he's never ha an issue with other dogs or animals and he seems to know that we will protect him if Bindi is aggressive so he simply is relaxed and goes about being the big sook he is normally I will take note on the affection, I had probably incorrectly figured she would be frigtened and missing her pack so would need reassurance, but then I was also worried she would think all the affection would mean we were in fact hers and Yoshi should not be close. To get around this when the kids were in bed last night Yoshi was on his bed we had her on the lead and just spoke calmly but firmly to her while they were both in the room. She was fine for a while and then lunged so we removed her to the laundry. I do honestly feel that the entire situation is what's driving her behaviour it's scary and new, I will try to find someone locally to work with her in a calmer environment that will not be so overwhelming. We camp and bushwalk a lot and can't risk having a dog aggressive dog, but I believe in a single animal home as she has been and with someone who can slowly socialize her and work with her she will be a wonderful dog. She's definitely not a bad dog now, we just need to know how to help her be better with her behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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