Fordogs Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I saw the topic on postponing a bitches season and didn't want to hijack it so my question is ~~~~ How to bring a bitch into season? I have a bitch that has failed to fall pregnant last 3 seasons even though she has had 2 very good matings calculated by progesterone testing. She is not a maiden, she had a litter of 8 puppies 2 1/2 years ago, she is now 5 years old The time between season has been 7 - 9 months She has had lengthy seasons of 50 plus days, really slow to come in and this is her history, (1)Went to stud on day 30 progesterone was right on >> again days 32, 34 & day 36 > re did prog. and it was 65. (2)Next season mated day 46 progesterone > 20nmol/ (3)Next season mated day 50 " " > " " >> on this occasion she was on Receptal. We will be taking her to Bowral vets prior to her next season but it is always good to put it out there and see if others have had similar problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Midniara~ Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I've never progesterone tested and have always let nature take its course. When the bitch stands for the stud then she is ready, otherwise no mating. I have no clue as to how to bring a bitch into season. The only way my bitches used to come into season early would be if a bitch within the pack came into season first and then the other bitches would follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 It is all well and good if your chosen stud is in your yard but we are not all that lucky and we have to travel, even just a few hour each way, it is far better to only have to make the trip once because we are also taking up the stud owner's time and he might have to service other bitches as well as mine. I do have a male here he is NOT used as a stud but he is very good at letting me know when the girls are almost ready and that is when I do progesterone tests and he is usually spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I too dont have a stud dog to tell me, and last time, i prog tested and sent bitch away (from WA to ACT) after checking her prog was increasing steadily. Natural mating took place succesfully. Are you able to bring the stud dog to the bitch for the time she is in? This woudl cut out travel time and stress! Not sure how to bring a bitch in - i didn't think it can really be done except as midniara said, sometimes they bring themselves in by following another bitch who is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYSQL Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I have heard of a bitch in a similar situation to the OP's that was given a very expensive human fertility drug at a specialist vet & she came into season within a day or so & they ended up with 8 healthy puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 hellier dog rescue, Thank you now that is why I posted here, there is always some one who will come forward with good tidings and hope for the future litter I so desire. If this girl was only mediocre I wouldn't even bother trying but she is lovely bitch and very special. We will be making a specialist appointment very soon. My vet has no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYSQL Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 hellier dog rescue, Thank you now that is why I posted here, there is always some one who will come forward with good tidings and hope for the future litter I so desire. If this girl was only mediocre I wouldn't even bother trying but she is lovely bitch and very special. We will be making a specialist appointment very soon. My vet has no idea The specialist that made this possible ( ended up being an outstanding litter that has since been repeated )was in NSW I can get details for you if you would like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglodge Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 hellier dog rescue, Thank you now that is why I posted here, there is always some one who will come forward with good tidings and hope for the future litter I so desire. If this girl was only mediocre I wouldn't even bother trying but she is lovely bitch and very special. We will be making a specialist appointment very soon. My vet has no idea Hi Fordogs Over the years we have used Cabergoline quite a few times on the recommendation & supervision of our vet who is a reproductive specialist. It is a human fertility drug that has no side effects. We have only used it to plan a litter when one of our girls has a history of lengthy periods between seasons. It is not expensive and we have had success every time. It is given daily and usually within 3-5 weeks the season begins. It is stopped 2 days after bleeding has commenced. It inhibits the hormone that stops estrus so that your girl will naturally start her season. I hope this helps. If you would like any other information, just let me know Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lolapalooza* Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Have you had the vets have a look inside the bitch at her cervical anatomy? Some of the bitches a friend of mine owns dont get pregnant naturally but have taken with transcervical insemination as their cervixes are even hard to cannulate with the scope. (not getting into the sensibleness of perpetuating line with funny fannies but you get what I mean) just might be an idea to try TCI aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi Lola, I live in a rural area and also work at a local vet (mainly large animal) one day a week. They are always assisting farmers & horse breeders time their stock breeding but when I asked about my girl they simply and say they have too hard basket I guess. Not to worry Bowral Specialty hospital is just over an hour from here, just need to find out who best to deal with in there. As for checking her cervix, she has had a normal trouble free whelping when she delivered a litter of 8 puppies 2 1/2 years ago. One thing I will do though first is to take what I have learned here to a vet at work and surely she will find a little time out of her social schedule to research the best products and way to go for my girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwarzbear Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi Kerry, Thank you for posting the information about the drug you have used. My girls do not seem to cycle that often 8 - 9 months or once every 12 months which is frustrating. After reading your post spoke to my vet's collegue (my repo vet is on holidays) and it seems you can get 8 tablets for $150 using 1/2 tablet per day. Usage would be for around 25 days finishing second day of coming into season. Could I ask how long did you use the tablets and what price did you pay? Any other information would be greatly appreciated. Have a feeling the girl that I want to bring in might be having silent seasons and it seems the tablet will correct that and she will have a normal cycle. Thanks, Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Have you tried taking swabs daily when she comes into season to check for cornified cells? According to two repo vets here in adelaide, it is more accurate than progesterone testing - and the method used when doing AI with frozen semen as it is the most accurate. (they will often use both lots of testing - progesterone, then checking for cornified cells to make certain) You will need a good powered microscope (the ones high schools have are good enough), slides, swabs and the three liquids to fix and stain the slides. My Vet set me up with this, this time around as my girl reluctantly stands for a dog, even when she has all the outward signs of being ready. We also wanted to take swabs each day after the mating and check the cells to see which day she went into diestrus. I've found it all really interesting. Was fun having my own little "lab" set up at home, taking swabs each day and peering down a microscope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglodge Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Hi Kerry, Thank you for posting the information about the drug you have used. My girls do not seem to cycle that often 8 - 9 months or once every 12 months which is frustrating. After reading your post spoke to my vet's collegue (my repo vet is on holidays) and it seems you can get 8 tablets for $150 using 1/2 tablet per day. Usage would be for around 25 days finishing second day of coming into season. Could I ask how long did you use the tablets and what price did you pay? Any other information would be greatly appreciated. Have a feeling the girl that I want to bring in might be having silent seasons and it seems the tablet will correct that and she will have a normal cycle. Thanks, Sheila Hi Sheila We have been using Cabergoline for a few years and in that time it has never been more than 35.00 - 40.00 for 2 weeks worth of capsules. It is dispensed in 25 microg or 100 microg capsules by our vet not tablets. One of our Pugs who weighed approx. 10 kgs was on 1 x 100mg capsule a day and it took around 4-5 weeks for her season to start. One of our other girls was 8kg and was on 2 x 25 microg capsules a day (given at the same time). It took approx. 3 weeks for her season to begin. On average it takes 3-5 weeks. Good luck. Kerry Edited June 28, 2011 by Puglodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwarzbear Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi Kerry, Thanks for that information mind you this girl weighs about 45 kilos so may be that is why price is high. Mind you the vets I use charge like wounded bulls but they are good in the repo area. I will check with other vets or online to see if I can get it cheaper. Did you have a blood test taken first before starting the tablets. Sorry if this is a dumb question. Regards, Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) jr, the microscope sound like a great idea, just checked them online starting price is around $80.00, just have to check out what magnification I would require. Edited June 29, 2011 by Fordogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglodge Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hi Kerry, Thanks for that information mind you this girl weighs about 45 kilos so may be that is why price is high. Mind you the vets I use charge like wounded bulls but they are good in the repo area. I will check with other vets or online to see if I can get it cheaper. Did you have a blood test taken first before starting the tablets. Sorry if this is a dumb question. Regards, Sheila Hi Sheila No blood test necessary. As long as the last season was at least 6 months ago and your girl is in great health, a check-up by our vet along with a weigh is all that is necessary. Our vet knows everything about us but we always have to make an appointment for him to check our girls before he administers the capsules. Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Have you tried taking swabs daily when she comes into season to check for cornified cells? According to two repo vets here in adelaide, it is more accurate than progesterone testing - and the method used when doing AI with frozen semen as it is the most accurate. (they will often use both lots of testing - progesterone, then checking for cornified cells to make certain) You will need a good powered microscope (the ones high schools have are good enough), slides, swabs and the three liquids to fix and stain the slides. My Vet set me up with this, this time around as my girl reluctantly stands for a dog, even when she has all the outward signs of being ready. We also wanted to take swabs each day after the mating and check the cells to see which day she went into diestrus. I've found it all really interesting. Was fun having my own little "lab" set up at home, taking swabs each day and peering down a microscope. I know a few people who have had swabs done and told, according to the cells it's to late you have missed her - Prog test said other wise ;) Blood very rarely lies. Cells can be read wrong, displaying different due to infection etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 jr, the microscope sound like a great idea, just checked them online starting price is around $80.00, just have to check out what magnification I would require. the microscope I used had a 40x objective lens (the one on the rotating nosepiece part) and a 10x eyepiece lens, so a total magnification of 400x. This was a good magnification for me with my failing eyesight. I wouldn't recommend smaller magnification. I suspect I would be able to see sperm with this microscope if needed. I found that a microscope with its own light source was best for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Have you tried taking swabs daily when she comes into season to check for cornified cells? According to two repo vets here in adelaide, it is more accurate than progesterone testing - and the method used when doing AI with frozen semen as it is the most accurate. (they will often use both lots of testing - progesterone, then checking for cornified cells to make certain) You will need a good powered microscope (the ones high schools have are good enough), slides, swabs and the three liquids to fix and stain the slides. My Vet set me up with this, this time around as my girl reluctantly stands for a dog, even when she has all the outward signs of being ready. We also wanted to take swabs each day after the mating and check the cells to see which day she went into diestrus. I've found it all really interesting. Was fun having my own little "lab" set up at home, taking swabs each day and peering down a microscope. I know a few people who have had swabs done and told, according to the cells it's to late you have missed her - Prog test said other wise ;) Blood very rarely lies. Cells can be read wrong, displaying different due to infection etc. Interesting. My understanding is that when the cells are first cornified, it is a good time to mate - as ovulation occurs 6 days after the cells are cornified. So mate at the first sign of cornified cells and then again two to three days later and you are unlikely to miss ovulation. My understanding is also that when the cells change back to regular shaped cells, - generally 5 days after ovulation - then the bitch has moved into diestrus and that fertilization took place 3 days prior. This way, if your mating was within 6 or 7 days of fertilization, the success rate should be ok. I think using a combination of both progesterone testing and taking swabs is a good combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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