Housetraining Disappeared!

[Pheebs]

Hi there

Apologies - quite a long post ahead but if anyone has any suggestions it would be very much appreciated.

OK, so as many of you know I avoid the training forum as i'm not well knowledged in these things and find the prospect of being verbally beaten down terrifying, but here goes

Ok, so just a background situation:

Tess has been with her foster carer since November. Tess has chosen to sleep upstairs on the couch, her carer sleeps downstairs. Tess's foster carer doesn't have a fenced backyard, so has to be supervised when taken out for toilet-breaks. When Tess was living with me, she was in a smallish fenced off area sleeping outside in a kennel. This was her preference not mine ;) Tess is at home with her foster carer in the mornings/night, and at the foster-carer's parents during the day when she is at work. The parents have a fully fenced yard which she can romp around in. Her housetraining has always been flawless, which is why the following email seems out of character.

Today I just received an email from her foster carer:

I just wanted to ask your advice.

ok she has been weeing on the carpet upstairs again sometime between when i go to bed and when i get up...the carpet looks terrible!!

now she has still been waking me up a few times a night at all hours and i will say since she has started the weeing i have been taking her out hoping to alleviate the problem but she still manages to do it though in smaller quantities if she has been out in the night.

it doesnt happen every night but has been happening on and off for about 2- 3 weeks. theres no pattern that i can clearly see. not even every second day or something and not related to breaks in the routine say like when i have worked all day or something like that.

im at a loss...another problem is she also seems to be far less obedient and this is the first time this has happened. would it all be routine related? nmothing has changed that much to warant it though and thats what im afraid of....should something like this just come out of the blue? is it like a domino effect? i mean is she weeing for some reason and then when i verbally scold her does that lead to the less obedience? i mean i have to tell her its wrong right? otherwise it wont change the pattern. i also need to stop getting up to her through the night simply because its exhausting me.

so what do you suggest? =)

shes fine all the other time and her behaviour hasnt changed.....and the funny thing is when she is left inside for a few hours she doesnt go to the toilet at all LOL

1. It doesn't sound like a urinary infection does it? ;)

2. How do I get the stains out? What is the best thing to put on it to stop her re-marking (if it is a case of re-marking the scent).

3. REALLY dumb question, she started new worming medication and flea meds two weeks ago - is this simply coincidence?

Is crate training an option in this case?

If I were to crate her, would it be wise to keep the crate

a) upstairs near the couch which where she's currently sleeping

b) outside?

c) in the foster carer's room so she felt secure enough not to wake her up constantly (which she often does at the most inconvenient times to play )

I felt crate training may be beneficial as she also suffers mild separation anxiety.

Sorry to have bombarded you all with this, i'm just clueless as to where to start!

Pheebs

Edited March 18, 2005 by Pheeble

[Fin]

I'm not really all that knowledgeable either but as it appears to be somewhat regular and out of character I'd be thinking about a vet visit anyway, especially an adult dog that has had no previous bladder control issues.

As far as stopping it with regards to scent etc, I use white vinegar on my wooden floors but I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WILL GO ON CARPET (read: please don't hold me responsible for bleached patches of carpet )

If she's crook then she may be less obedient also...just a thought...oh and could be the new meds too, is there an option to go back to the old ones?

Edited for crap spelling...

Edited February 27, 2005 by Fin

[Pheebs]

Thanks Fin

Yeah a vet check's in order as well (as I need to hand over certification that the F.C can make decisionson my behalf in my absence anyway).

Actually, she started the worming meds (Sentinel Spectrum) about three months ago, but revolution flea treatment two weeks ago

[Kavik]

Ok, some ideas . . .

Vet check a good idea

She said she is punishing the dog for weeing - does she catch the dog in the act or do it later? Obviously it is only useful if done straight away, otherwise you only confuse the dog.

One thing that can help - take water away early in the night (if vet check turns out OK) unless a hot night.

But if has come up suddenly there is likely a problem somewhere . . .

[Staff'n'Toller]

Is she having Sentinel Spectrum and Revolution at the same time or have you been using Sentinel then switched to Revolution??? Sorry I'm confused.

Edited to ask: How old is she? I would have your FC collect a fresh urine sample the morning of the Vet visit.

Mel.

Edited February 27, 2005 by StaffordsRule

[Pheebs]

Hi Mel

She started Sentinel Spectrum 3 months ago for worming and heartworm

Then about a month ago the foster carer said that Tess was absolutely bombarded by fleas and 'hadn't been anywhere other than her normal surroudings to pick them up', and kept rubbing her ears against the wall which led her to think it could be earmites as well...

Tess wasn't on any flea meds up until that time, so we decided to put her on Revolution in the hope that it might combat possible earmites as well.

So to answer your question, she's on both

Tess will be 6 in May

[Staff'n'Toller]

Sentinel Spectrum does have a flea treatment in it, but it's an insect growth regulator which means that it doesn't kill adult fleas like Revolution- that's why I was confused hehehe.

She doesn't really need to be on both- bit of overkill really. Either Revolution with an allwormer or back to Sentinel Spectrum once the ear mites/fleas are under control.

Does your foster carer have cats?

This is probably overdoing it, but if she's coming up for 6, a blood test to check her general health may also ease your mind, whilst you're at the Vets.

Kind Regards,

Mel.

[Pheebs]

Thanks Mel,

I was aware that Sentinel (should ) cover fleas so we gave her three months on that with no luck before considering any other options. She's in a bushy/beach area so no doubt she keeps picking them up from the scrub. Hoping to get that under control so we can phase out the Revolution.

Tess is not at ALL cat-friendly, but there have been sightings of a few cats in the backyard (which she doesn't have access to unless its onleash for toilet breaks).

Will ask for general bloodwork and urine culture testing - thanks guys

(From a worry-wart Mum )

Edited February 27, 2005 by Pheeble

[SpikesPuppy]

No idea why she is peeing but I find white vinegar/water works WONDERS on carpet. I mix it into a spray-bottle and just use it when neccesarry. The vinegar also masks the urine scent so should discourage from using the same spot.

Actually found that the vinegar got most of the blood-stains out of the carpet too when Rascall impaled himself. So it's damn good

[Pheebs]

She peed inside again last night

Friday morning's the earliest an appointment could be arranged

Edited March 1, 2005 by Pheeble

[Paula-]

Radar went inside a short time ago - when we had very heavy rain and he wouldn't go outside. It was then a habit - we were waking up to a puddle on the carpet.

Into a crate at night, and no problem, he goes in there now happily (it's in our room).

However, he IS waking us up every few hours to go outside...

habit?

[Ripley]

Has there been a change in routine? Mum looked after Millie for 2 weeks when I was on holidays recently and she said one evening she just stood in front of mum and pee'd on the carpet right there in front of her.

At home she never wees on the carpet.

I do make sure I take Millie out the last thing before bed. I put her outside and say "wee wee" and she isnt allowed back in until she goes. She knows the routine. Then she can hold her bladder all night - she's about 4 years old.

Tess may have a UTI. What about Bach flower remedies - could you try the Rescue Remedy at all or the one for anxiety? I have my parrot Lewis on a Bachs remedy (yes I can hear you all snigger) but after a couple weeks I have noticed an improvement in his behaviour.

It could be worth a try, but it takes a few weeks to work I find.

[Pheebs]

No, no change in routine...

I had thought rescue remedy, too actually...

I'm going to look at crating her anyway cause she continues to wake Kylie up and have 'false' urges to pee but when she gets outside all she wants to do is bloody play (1am, 3am, you name it).

Thing is in these last couple of weeks, she's peeing upstairs, THEN coming and pestering Kylie.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Pheeble

[Cordelia]

Agreed Pheebs.

Break the pattern she is establishing by crating her at night. She's a good girl and will get used to it quickly.

I'd put the crate close to where she decided to sleep (upstairs).

I would be extremely surprised if Tess urinated in a crate.

My theory.... rescue remedy may help her. I believe she is stressed. (I don't know why she is, but I do believe she is).

The Revolution should be stopped asap.

And I would also just change and use ADVOCATE which does fleas, HW and worms all in one go as well as getting rid of the fleas in her environment. (sentinal does not do this). It will also kill earmites.

If she still has ear mites (tested under microscope), then there is also a treatment available that you just pop it down her ears and it will fix the problem almost immediately. (can't remember the name of it though).

Get rid of some of the chemicals in her system (too many atm) and crate her, give her RR and I bet the problem stops.

Still have a vet visit though, just to make sure you have a baseline in case of illness.

[Clicking Mad]

...

Edited January 7, 2008 by Clicking Mad

[Benson]

Hey Phoebe,

I have a large crate if you need to borrow it - it should fit Tess for sleeping, but anyway you're welcome to come round and see if it's ok if you need it.

Hope Tess settles soon

Benson

[Pheebs]

Thanks Benson - have PMd you

Ok... after the vet visit this morning:

Tessypants has a yeast infection her ears, and has been given some drops which should see that she's feeling comfortable again within about 3-5 days.

The vet seems to think the urination is compeltely behavioural, but will do a urine test early on next week just to make sure.

Because the fleas are completely gone, we've now stopped with the revolution, and she's just on Sentinel now.

He's prescribed her with Clomicalm (half a tablet, twice a day) just to take the edge off. She's been given a months supply, so i'm unsure as to whether this will be an ongoing thing.

She weighs in at 27kg and seems to be in good shape

If the combination of clomicalm, positively reinforcing the urination outside and changing her sleeping location doesn't work, then we will look at getting a session with a behaviourist recommended by the vet (name escapes me atm). Last night Kylie restricted her to the downstairs area of the house and she happily slept in Kylie's room without waking her up.

There's also the possibility that her urination patterns co-incided with a visit from me - in all honesty, should I be looking at more consistent visits, or cutting visits altogether ;)? Kylie has said that her general behaviour did not change upon our visit (though, naturally we can't rule out that this urination might have been her way of well, not coping but you know what I mean). If she was urinating cause of our visit, would it make sense that she would continue to do it a month down the track after our visit?

Edited March 4, 2005 by Pheeble

[Ripley]

She's in Newcastle right? Mum had in a behaviourist - his name escapes me - Dr Robert someone I think. He has his own website and is a Delta member and vet. He practices Newcastle way. She needed him in for her niece's OCD JRT she's minding for a year. PM me if you like.

Edit: Found out who he is. Dr Robert Stabler. This is his website:

http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~mbdrjs/

Edited March 4, 2005 by Ripley

[sidoney]

I have an 8 year old Vizsla that sometimes goes to the toilet at night if free inside. She got in the habit when she was pregnant - and too full of puppies, I think, to hold a full bladder/bowel as well. I try to not feed or water the dogs late, and take them out for last minute toilets, but sometimes we still got liquid AND solid in the morning. Crated overnight after a late toilet break, she has no problems holding it. I now crate all my 4 dogs at night.

[Pheebs]

ARGHHHHHH HEEEEEEEEEELP!

This is just SO unlike her

ok well.....from the time i took her to the vets till about 4 nights ago, i kept the stairs blocked off so she had to sleep downstairs with me either in my room or in the laundry....of course with the routine change she was a little unsettled for a few nights but was fine after that. so that was almost 2 weeks we did that for and then i thought i would see how she went upstairs. well she stayed down with me for most of the night but then started to go up after that. it wasnt until wednesday night that we had struck a problem again. i woke up at 2ish to hear her running around upstairs and playing with her toys and then she came down to me and wanted to go out. so we went outside and she did a lap around the pool and then wanted to go back in. so i thought something was going on. so we went back inside and i thought i will just go see if shes done anything upstairs and as soon as a i turned the corner to go upstairs, i was hot in the face with the stench of poop. i was not happy as you could imagine. so shes peed and pooed twice. the poops were different and one had been done much earlier.

i dont know what to do pheebs...it just seems such starnge behaviour. so needless to say i blocked off upstairs last night and she was fine so i relaise thats something that we are going to have to continue now but i feel like that behaviour needs to still be addressed. i need to get the carpet cleaned because its a nightmare and im too afraid to do it when shes only going to pee again.

i had been only giving her the clomicalm at night and not twice like it says cos she had really sloppy poops with a full tablet and i thought just the half at night could be the go as thats when we have the problem. but im thinking maybe its not doing anything. what do you think? i just dont want to be giving her drugs if they arent delivering the desired effect you know.

i have been thinking about the crate thing and i dont think she would cope very well with it. i think shes so sensitive as it is and i think she would really hate it but if its something you think would be good then i guess we do that.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Pheeble