Council Seizing & Destroying Staffy's

[sandgrubber]

Fingers crossed that they allow home detention. It's going to get ungodly expensive if the powers that be decide they need to provide secure facilities and cases drag on.

Has anyone written to, or called, DPI or the various Ministers to get clarification on this?

[Cosmolo]

I have a dog pen- but i doubt it would fit the requirements of a RB pen- its just a pretty looking pen with a kennel and toys in it, fence and shed on 3 sides, merbau fence and gate on the other.

[sumosmum]

Fingers crossed that they allow home detention. It's going to get ungodly expensive if the powers that be decide they need to provide secure facilities and cases drag on.

Has anyone written to, or called, DPI or the various Ministers to get clarification on this?

There is a provision that if the council want to allow it, you can keep the dog at home. The dog does not have to be kept under the Restricted Breed regs while waiting to be heard by VCAT,if a person is fighting the decision to declare. This was advised to me by a Solicitor who is looking into the whole thing.

ETA If anyone would like a copy of the info sheet the Solicitor has put together, please PM me with your email address.

Edited September 30, 2011 by sumosmum

[Saffioraire]

Regarding dogs already registered as staffies, the council has to honor that ergo for the remainder of the registration year. Once that is up, then the council will determine whether the dog has PB in it ornot.

I don't think this is the case Megan. The new laws come into effect tomorrow, so after tomorrow they can decide to declare the dogs registered as Staffy's to be Restricted Breeds if they believe they fit the standard.

If the dog is registered or not, the owner still has the right to appeal through VCAT. If the appeal is lost, the unregistered dog may then be destroyed.

This is what she was told. (It is actually worse for those who HAVE registered dogs) The council will be visiting every home with a dog registered as Staffy, Etc to determine whether in their opinion it is actually a PBT. They could not give a time frame as they would have "thousands of homes to visit". She did not want to go down the path of Restricted breed because she was advised that the dogs would have to be muzzled at all times and kept in a concrete floored run!

[sumosmum]

Regarding dogs already registered as staffies, the council has to honor that ergo for the remainder of the registration year. Once that is up, then the council will determine whether the dog has PB in it ornot.

I don't think this is the case Megan. The new laws come into effect tomorrow, so after tomorrow they can decide to declare the dogs registered as Staffy's to be Restricted Breeds if they believe they fit the standard.

If the dog is registered or not, the owner still has the right to appeal through VCAT. If the appeal is lost, the unregistered dog may then be destroyed.

This is what she was told. (It is actually worse for those who HAVE registered dogs) The council will be visiting every home with a dog registered as Staffy, Etc to determine whether in their opinion it is actually a PBT. They could not give a time frame as they would have "thousands of homes to visit". She did not want to go down the path of Restricted breed because she was advised that the dogs would have to be muzzled at all times and kept in a concrete floored run!

If her dogs are un papered American Staffordshire Terriers, she needs to have a vet certificate to state this.

Dr Kim Hooper runs a mobile vet service in the NE of Melbourne.

Dr Kim is a true friend of the dog, a very compassionate and ethical professional, and a supporter of the NDTF.

If you believe you require a vet certificate as a result of the current legislation please take some time to call her on 0434377156 and seek some advice. Kim will be happy to take your call and see if she can help you given your situation and ethical constraints.

Dr Kim is not a member of the AVA.

ETA Please urge your friend to get a Vet Certificate as soon as possible. If the council does seize her dog, it will be harder to get the Certificate, and a lot more stressful for her and the dog.

Edited October 1, 2011 by sumosmum

[Saffioraire]

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice. My apologies for taking so long to get back on, my son is teething and time is of the essence with a screaming child!

I have passed the information on and am waiting to hear back. In response to one comment, let it be said these dogs are also kept in a secure run at times throughout the day, not because they are feral but because it is easier to "put them in their room" when the guests come than have them mooching at the back door during mothers group! These dogs live with a cat and a baby (and a ferret!) The owners are responsible, the dogs friendly, and they are devastated.

The Shire is once again entertaining a knee jerk reaction. Whats worse is the article in last weeks "Lilydale & Yarra Ranges" local news paper of an AKITA attack which resulted in the attacking dog (the AKITA) being run over and killed - while the large photo heading the article was of an aged GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG! Which highlights the type of knee jerk media and poor editing of local media where these laws are being enforced. Does not help

[sumosmum]

Saffioraira, would you mind telling me what council this is please? Pm me if you prefer. Thanks.

[bslsux]

I have a dog pen- but i doubt it would fit the requirements of a RB pen- its just a pretty looking pen with a kennel and toys in it, fence and shed on 3 sides, merbau fence and gate on the other.

Cosmolo, at this point in time a backyard can be the enclosure for a restricted breed dog. See page 3 of attached Factsheet

Factsheet-Things you should know about restricted breed dogs September 2011.pdf

[morgerot]

I know there has been a similar thread lately but I can't find it sorry.

My friend tried to register her two American Staffy's today, and was impolitely informed that if she cannot provide papers for them she MUST declare them dangerous dogs or they will be declared Pit Bull Terriers, seized by the council and PTS. The dogs come from a long line of dogs bred by this family (for generations) however they don't have ANKC papers. The council has recently implemented laws to say any Staffy without papers is to be declared a dangerous dog, or it will be treated as a Pit Bull and PTS. They are also sending a member to every home with a registered Staffy to assess whether the dog is a Staffy or a PBT and if they decide the dog is a PBT it will be seized on the spot and PTS.

I remember reading people posting links to state and federal law which over-rides council law.

If you could please post these links again it will be greatly appreciated. (This is not Geelong, this is the Shire of Yarra Ranges.)

I know that there have been publications and a lot of research done, on genetic markers in Pitbulls and Staffis. Maybe there is a way of proofing what they are?

[Nekhbet]

I know that there have been publications and a lot of research done, on genetic markers in Pitbulls and Staffis.

There is no such breed as a 'staffy'. It's a coloqualism for a random bull breed which is why we're in the shit we're in.

Your dog is either a pedigree Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, of an indeterminate bull breed which can henceforth be labelled as a 'pit bull' if it conforms to a physical type that resembles it.

We've spent too many years breeding up random dogs and when the shit hits the fan there's no proof of what they are. The she'll be right attitude of some dog breeding in this country is biting people on the arse big time.

[Blackdogs]

I heard Sylvia Power (Dogs Vic) on radio this morning pointing out that DNA testing is not helpful.

A rep from the municipal association that represents local councils has received advice that blood DNA tests may be useful at identifying Amstaffs (rather than salivary DNA tests) and preventing them from being classified as a restricted breed dogs. However, he agreed that it would not help identify Pitbull type dogs. He was waiting on more advice from labs/vets etc.

That's what I was implying - it may help you if you have a dog that would be classified under the test but is actually a mix of other breeds.

I head there was no DNA profile for Pit Bulls - but since I can't remember where I heard it, it's not particularly valid.

There is no DNA test for pitbulls, as samples from ANKC dogs are taken to create the breed DNA profile. However, if you get your pitbull DNA tested, it should come back as SBT being the closest match. Not sure how realiable this is in court.

[morgerot]

That is the question, if we don't recognize breeds as breeds, just because the FCI does not recognize them. Like German coolies, about 6 german herding breeds and so many more. I realize that there was a lot of cross breeding at some stage. However the pit bulls in Germany were destincly different from "staffis". https://sites.google.com/site/sothernsaintkennels/collection/American-Pit-Bull-Terrier-Breed-Info/american-pit-bull-terrier-registry-s-and-breed-standards

On testing:

http://www.dog-dna.com/dog-breed-testing.php

I know there have been studies to evaluate exactly this, since a lot of places have problems destinguising the one breed from the others (if there is ban on jut one).

So for the interested there will be material out there. I am sure that Brisbane City Council had a grant on that topic a few years back (approximately 4 years). I am not saying that genetic breed testing will solve everyone's problem, (especially since a ban on certain breeds has never been a solution, a ban on certain owners would be), however it might be a start.

[Sandra777]

I heard Sylvia Power (Dogs Vic) on radio this morning pointing out that DNA testing is not helpful.

A rep from the municipal association that represents local councils has received advice that blood DNA tests may be useful at identifying Amstaffs (rather than salivary DNA tests) and preventing them from being classified as a restricted breed dogs. However, he agreed that it would not help identify Pitbull type dogs. He was waiting on more advice from labs/vets etc.

That's what I was implying - it may help you if you have a dog that would be classified under the test but is actually a mix of other breeds.

I head there was no DNA profile for Pit Bulls - but since I can't remember where I heard it, it's not particularly valid.

There is no DNA test for pitbulls, as samples from ANKC dogs are taken to create the breed DNA profile. However, if you get your pitbull DNA tested, it should come back as SBT being the closest match. Not sure how realiable this is in court.

Err - no. It should come back as an American Staffordshire Terrier not as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT)

No wonder the politicans are confused :laugh:

[Blackdogs]

I heard Sylvia Power (Dogs Vic) on radio this morning pointing out that DNA testing is not helpful.

A rep from the municipal association that represents local councils has received advice that blood DNA tests may be useful at identifying Amstaffs (rather than salivary DNA tests) and preventing them from being classified as a restricted breed dogs. However, he agreed that it would not help identify Pitbull type dogs. He was waiting on more advice from labs/vets etc.

That's what I was implying - it may help you if you have a dog that would be classified under the test but is actually a mix of other breeds.

I head there was no DNA profile for Pit Bulls - but since I can't remember where I heard it, it's not particularly valid.

There is no DNA test for pitbulls, as samples from ANKC dogs are taken to create the breed DNA profile. However, if you get your pitbull DNA tested, it should come back as SBT being the closest match. Not sure how realiable this is in court.

Err - no. It should come back as an American Staffordshire Terrier not as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT)

No wonder the politicans are confused :laugh:

And yet it doesn't. I questioned that as well, however I was told that they usually come back as SBT. This is direct from the creator/director of the leading Canine DNA testing company in Australia.

[Sandra777]

I heard Sylvia Power (Dogs Vic) on radio this morning pointing out that DNA testing is not helpful.

A rep from the municipal association that represents local councils has received advice that blood DNA tests may be useful at identifying Amstaffs (rather than salivary DNA tests) and preventing them from being classified as a restricted breed dogs. However, he agreed that it would not help identify Pitbull type dogs. He was waiting on more advice from labs/vets etc.

That's what I was implying - it may help you if you have a dog that would be classified under the test but is actually a mix of other breeds.

I head there was no DNA profile for Pit Bulls - but since I can't remember where I heard it, it's not particularly valid.

There is no DNA test for pitbulls, as samples from ANKC dogs are taken to create the breed DNA profile. However, if you get your pitbull DNA tested, it should come back as SBT being the closest match. Not sure how realiable this is in court.

Err - no. It should come back as an American Staffordshire Terrier not as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT)

No wonder the politicans are confused :laugh:

And yet it doesn't. I questioned that as well, however I was told that they usually come back as SBT. This is direct from the creator/director of the leading Canine DNA testing company in Australia.

Interesting then that in the Gold Coast case the whole thing went down the loo when genetic evidence showed there was no difference between an Amstaff and an APBT.

[Blackdogs]

I heard Sylvia Power (Dogs Vic) on radio this morning pointing out that DNA testing is not helpful.

A rep from the municipal association that represents local councils has received advice that blood DNA tests may be useful at identifying Amstaffs (rather than salivary DNA tests) and preventing them from being classified as a restricted breed dogs. However, he agreed that it would not help identify Pitbull type dogs. He was waiting on more advice from labs/vets etc.

That's what I was implying - it may help you if you have a dog that would be classified under the test but is actually a mix of other breeds.

I head there was no DNA profile for Pit Bulls - but since I can't remember where I heard it, it's not particularly valid.

There is no DNA test for pitbulls, as samples from ANKC dogs are taken to create the breed DNA profile. However, if you get your pitbull DNA tested, it should come back as SBT being the closest match. Not sure how realiable this is in court.

Err - no. It should come back as an American Staffordshire Terrier not as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT)

No wonder the politicans are confused :laugh:

And yet it doesn't. I questioned that as well, however I was told that they usually come back as SBT. This is direct from the creator/director of the leading Canine DNA testing company in Australia.

Interesting then that in the Gold Coast case the whole thing went down the loo when genetic evidence showed there was no difference between an Amstaff and an APBT.

That is interesting. How did they prove that the dog they tested against was an actual Pitbull rather than an unpapered Amstaff?