Mandalay Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Why do you think numbers are dropping off in the rings... I have heard avary of reasons.... Face judging at an all time high??? People getting sold crap not good enough for the ring??? Nasty other exhibitors??? Just not enjoyable ???? Come out open up and let us know your thoughts..........I have been involved with dogs all my life I have seen it , heard it & been aware of it..........tell what you think IT is..... AS I am thinking of giving it up myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Its probably a case of all of the above sometimes! Personally I have backed off abit, I used to show nearly every weekend, but I have now learnt that its a waste of my time and money entering whatever shows going when I know what the judge is going to do before I even get there. I have to be pretty careful about where and who I show under. I have had a few cases of nastiness directed at me and it sucks that people can be that way! Edited October 19, 2011 by Nevafollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Once a dog acheives its Aust Ch title many think there is no point going on. This gets worse if you live in an area where councils limit the number of dogs someone can have. I know of some that have titled their dog and are not able to get another dog until the ones they have have passed away. This can put some out for many years. Cost; many exhibitors are on a pension or low income and traveling to shows gets very expensive especially with fuel and accomodation costs. I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. While on the matter of judges. We are one of the last (more often the last) breed in our group. I really get annoyed when a judge calls a class winner or even group winner when not all dogs have entered the ring. I have seen this occur to my neice once about 5 years ago. I bought a dog for her to show and at her first show she only took one step into the ring and the judge called his winner. The judge didn't even look around at her dog or wait for her to join the lineup. My neice has not shown since. She was shattered by this one lack of consideration. THis has happened to me a few times but when it does I speak up about it. Another thing to consider is the way some are treated at the shows and not just by other exhibitors. An example is a few years back we travelled for six hours to a show being held in January (Hot weather- very hot in our area) When we arrived we were not allowed to start setting up even though others were already doing so, and we were not allowed to get our dogs out to cool off. The attitude of the show secretary (who obviously enjoyed the power of the position) was very abrupt and rude. As a result I stated then and there I would not go back and I haven't. I think its time showing used an analogy that gets used in small business. If you want to survive you look after your customers. If you do them wrong you can't complain when they won't support you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klink Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I personally feel there are quite a few reasons people are steadily dropping off the show scene ,or thinking about doing so. In many previous posts I have made reference to ' face judging ' quite a large problem. Possibly some times not always the reason one gets dumped but none the less a large problem,which our canine bodies appear to ignore hoping that the discontent amongs't us will go away...it wont'. Another factor I feel is the terrible cheapening of awarded trophies ( tea towels, plastic cups, and many other cheap and nasty prizes. ) I dont' expect gold plated watch's or diamonds and I understand how difficult it would be to come up with new ideas show after show For many of us that have been showing for many years and are nearing the end of our showing can recall the years ago when show trophies were cherished by everyone lucky enough to receive them and to this day they still retain pride of place in my home,proudly reminding me of dare I say the good times. Dog showing has changed over the years ,like many other things and it is a shame. Added to the above observations is the costs associated now with showing, petrol being the most obivious, particularly for regional areas. When younger and playing football,surfing,and being a professional sale person awards for success were much sort after by all and a tea towel, or a towel set from go-lo or the $2.00 shop wouldnt' have done it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:ange: Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 All the above.. I showed my boy until he was Aust Ch.. now I just don't see any point in going. He's not Gr. Ch worthy and being my first show dog I pretty much ruined him. Most shows are an hour plus away and the cost of travelling isn't cheap.. I struggled to meet people my age in the ring - and those that were around my age not really interested in a newbie with her lone Weimaraner. Sometimes I felt downright silly for being there and people were laughing at me when I was struggling to get my boy to behave in the ring - he hated it. I enjoyed it very much in Perth as I knew a great group of people who were supportive of a newbie. Country NSW I just didn't get the same vibes. at all. There were a couple of great people I met (one who frequents DOL) but other than that, after a while I just turned up before we went in the ring and left straight after. I might do it again one day when I have room for another one.. but for now zero interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I got into showing as a bit of fun and to try something new - we've done ok and we have lots of things to learn. I've found most exhibitors to be really nice and friendly, helpful - but every now and then I run into someone a bit nasty, I just ignore them. Perhaps some people find the initial outlay of $ prohibitive? I know that you can start with your dog, a good set of grooming supplies and a crate - however, I've found the experience more enjoyable with a trolley, gazebo & walls, camp chairs & table, stove for tea/coffee or hot lunch. Especially if it's a long day or bad weather. Now we're heading into hot weather I've bought a cool mat for the trolley and some shade mesh walls. One question - once a judge is accredited, do they need to be re-tested every so often? For example, you may have been accredited as a judge before a breed was ever given ANKC recognition - what happens then? A test on just that new breed for judges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I believe this is how the JS is judged in Japan Kind of on the above topic, I would love to get more actual feedback from judges. One of the main reasons we show is to get a judge's opinion on our dog and how closely it meets the standard. Every now and again you come across a judge who will explain their reasoning for putting certain dogs up, or provide some feedback on your dog, but really it's not that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzapug Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Personally for me it is the increasing costs of bloomin diesel....coupled with the increased $'s per entry. But as with everything in our current society we have to suck it up if we want to continue doing what we enjoy...showing. The judges face judging doesnt come in to my decisions to show...I breed for the betterment of the breed, and the whole point to breeding is to breed as close to perfection as I can get :D and then show them. Hubby is now a member, child is about to be a member...so family involvment growing but we will still be restricted because of expenses also growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. I am a new exhibitor and new to my breed as well and this would be very useful! I believe this is how the JS is judged in Japan Kind of on the above topic, I would love to get more actual feedback from judges. One of the main reasons we show is to get a judge's opinion on our dog and how closely it meets the standard. Every now and again you come across a judge who will explain their reasoning for putting certain dogs up, or provide some feedback on your dog, but really it's not that often. I don't think I've ever received a comment from a judge besides instructions - I presume it would be rude to ask them after the show is over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Petrol cost for us, we attend all the local shows but don't always make it to the long distance ones. I like the idea of a points sheet but that could so easily turn into fault judging which I personally don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) there are many reasons, I think, but one that hasn't been mentioned... the internet. Fantastic for networking with likeminded people and connecting, but do enough publicity and people know who you are, and how well you are doing, and maybe just sometimes, knowing who won the show last week or is consistently winning, will factor in the decision of the judge. *flame suit on* eta - i am not planning to give up on showing, but I have been picking my shows and I am just not as interested in it as when I first started... I take more pleasure now in other activities I can do with my dog, where, if I reach competition level, they are generally measureable and not open to one person's interpretation. i absolutely love showing, but it's different to how it used to be, and I only started 9 years ago. Edited October 19, 2011 by SparkyTansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Some very interesting points have been made.... Would some people agree that if the JUDGE being an ALL BREEDS, should have a refresher on the groups after a certain amount of time after all no-one can remember all the breed standards, this would be impossible, I do know some judges go over the standards the night before.......a lot don't. Rising cost of petrol, accommodation etc would come into it, but would some people have to travel a number of hours to be at certain shows if they could not afford it.......I have known some to travel 6 - 8 hours on a regular basis..... So should they win just for the distance they have travelled.......certainly not !!!!But some judges seem to think so.. The good old days, seem to have gone, many I have been showing with for a number of years are all talking about getting out now......SHAME SHAME SHAME....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm not showing as much this year due to lack of money and it's annoying because my latest dog is winning heaps and I would love to have him out more. It's just getting too expensive to travel long distances every week with the cost of fuel, food, entries etc.... I wont give it up but I wont be showing large numbers of dogs or going interstate alot any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emery Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd say cost is a big issue. I sometimes only enter 1 of my three dogs as i can't budget all three and i can't do this every weekend either Rising fuel and travel, Rising entry fees though (i am sure we all understand why they go up as well) I haven't shown my dogs in a few months due to being pregnant though showed a friends pups. I also find it hard when being one of the last breeds judged if i take my kids as we have nothing for them to do at our grounds (no idea if any other grounds have playgrounds or anything either) and they get bored and frustrated. Looking at getting back into the ring gues we are lucky here as we have night shows or the heat would turn me off as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayrod Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 It could be as mentioned as well as, just my thought, could it also be: That we lock our dogs away from the general public. Purpose built venues that do not entice the general public to enter. Some do not want to come just to a dog show but if it was part of something else then it may have a greater appeal/audience factor, something for everybody!! Husband, wife, kids etc. We used to have a lot of Agricultural Shows in Victoria. These shows were held in the local communitities and enticed vast numbers of show goers to come around and ask questions, some even purchased dogs and did dog showing for a couple of years. So what could have caused this change, I can recall KCC Victoria Regs changed so that exhibitors had to obtain passes based on the number of exhibits that they entered and the number of Ag Shows offering dog shows decreased overnight. The KCC in return opened up their books for new affiliates which were/are solely kennel clubs, so what may be value to one member of the family maybe outvoted when it comes to choice of alternative activities to attend at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I would think the biggest reason these days would be the expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 One question - once a judge is accredited, do they need to be re-tested every so often? For example, you may have been accredited as a judge before a breed was ever given ANKC recognition - what happens then? A test on just that new breed for judges? I'm no judge but we do quite often come under judges that were given their licence before our breed was recognised. As such we quite often get judges asking us what they should put up or even admitting they don't know what to look for. Although this does not apply to only new breeds. There are a few breeds where the standards have been changed over the years and many judges still judging to the original standard and not the correct one. A bit like the royal adelaide show 2 years ago where entire breeds were refused challenges because the judge was judging to the standard of his country and not the Australian standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Some very interesting points have been made.... Would some people agree that if the JUDGE being an ALL BREEDS, should have a refresher on the groups after a certain amount of time after all no-one can remember all the breed standards, this would be impossible, I do know some judges go over the standards the night before.......a lot don't. Rising cost of petrol, accommodation etc would come into it, but would some people have to travel a number of hours to be at certain shows if they could not afford it.......I have known some to travel 6 - 8 hours on a regular basis..... So should they win just for the distance they have travelled.......certainly not !!!!But some judges seem to think so.. The good old days, seem to have gone, many I have been showing with for a number of years are all talking about getting out now......SHAME SHAME SHAME....... On your first point we have once had a judge halt judging and make the ring wait while the went away and read the standard for our breed before returning to actually judge. Most of the others waiting got a bit vocal but personally I am glad they did it as it meant we knew our dogs were being judged correctly. As for distance we only have 3 shows locally each year. As such we regularly have to travel between 3 to 4.5 hours for a show. Occassionaly we even travel upto 13 hours one way for a show. However I expect the judge to not be aware of where I have travelled from. The only way a judge would be aware how far an exhibitor has travelled is if the exhibitor actually told the judge. This is more a fault of the exhibitor not the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entourage Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I can recall KCC Victoria Regs changed so that exhibitors had to obtain passes based on the number of exhibits that they entered and the number of Ag Shows offering dog shows decreased overnight. The KCC in return opened up their books for new affiliates which were/are solely kennel clubs, so what may be value to one member of the family maybe outvoted when it comes to choice of alternative activities to attend at the same time. It wasnt actually the KCC who changed their regulations, It was the agricultural societies who wanted to keep charging dog exhibitors to enter a shows grounds as well as for their vehicle... as well as pay an entry fee. The KCC worked with VASA (Victorian Agricultural Societies Association) and the many society affiliates who conducted dog shows at the same venue as their agricultural shows so that dog exhibitors were given a pass for themselves as well as for their vehicle. Some Societies were happy with the change and to keep a very main attraction at their show. Other societies did not give passes and hence lost the dog shows at their agricultural shows. For a couple of years in the 90's i was a VASA representative for dogs shows held at Agricultural shows in Victoria. At the time, it was most harmonious and as a an exhibitor myself at many agricultural shows at the time, i done my best to keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenbah Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Possibly also, there is more choice of venue, in NSW anyway.. The area I live in has a number of breeders. Next week end if I travel an hour one way I have 2 shows I could enter, or I can travel 45 minutes the other way and there is another 2 shows. These 4 shows are all going to have the lesser number of entries but exhibitors can choose which judges they are going to present their dogs to.... On the other hand, a show that has a full panel of International Judges will always draw big entries, it says a lot for our local ones and the confidence exhibitors show in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now