❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Jumabaar: Her baby canines haven't fallen out and I do have to get them taken out! But when I desex her I will thats no big issue just a one time thing. I guess I can't jump to conclusions yet all I've got is info I've read off the internet it just seems it is going to be life long thing for her with medication and vet bills and if it is something I have done then that's fine I take that on. But if it's a result of breeding I just want to know some ground of where I stand as it costs a lot of money for medication for dogs I'm sure you would know and if she needs surgery more money just the specialists is $600. I am going to do everything I can to have her live a long happy life. I just didn't expect doing the right thing paying the money for a good quality dog something like this would happen just in 4 months of having her. I will get all the info I need tomorrow and go from there. If it is a gentic problem hopefully the breeder does the thing she would expect of a breeder if she bought a dog and this happened to her. If she says to return the dog and swap for another and get my money back I will leave it at that and move on with what I have to do for my dog. I appreciate all your help and will post tomorrow what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) its still a relatively young dog though. when i buy something new I expect it to be 'healthy' at least the first year before things start going wrong. I'd be very peeved to have spent $1300 on a pedigree dog only for it to have such a serious health deficit only a few months later and whilst there is no magic ball for this, the breeder did produce this dog and sell it on and therefore is someone responsible still for it and its health problems going wrong at such a young age. Donatella- Why is the breeder responsible for a pup up to a certain undetermined age? They sold the pup healthy. Why have you set one year of age, why shouldn't it be 6mth or 18mths or 2yrs. When would you feel you had got your moneys worth? Would it change if the breeder charged $1000 or if they charged $100? Is the breeder responsible for a broken leg under 1yr of age because of the excitable temperament of a dog? Or if its baby canines don't fall out and it needs surgery to remove them? When I buy a pup I get it health checked. At that point I accept all responsibility- I will have checked that I am happy with the hip scores of the parents, I will have asked about any other health problems in the lines regarding the breed tendency and ask about the ages that my dogs relatives have lived to. In my opinion if the breeder answers all of these with answers that I am happy with then they have produced the best pup possible and the rest is left to fate. krystal&coco- I hope you find some answers and that they are the ones you want to hear. Give your breeder a chance to process the situation. If I had that phone call I would probably be a little shocked so perhaps this is the case? I hope that the breeder is proactive regardless of the outcome. I think its still a very young age to be diagnosed with what could be a very detrimental health deficit (could also be one that sees it live a very long and healthy life) and is one you'd think a breeder would be very interested in following through seeing as her bloodlines produced what could be a sick pup (presuming its not an acquired conditioned as previously suggested which I guess what tests will determine). Many breeders would rather you contact them if you were thinking about rehoming a pup before rehoming to a stranger so surely they would take a more vested interest in a serious health matter? IF tests prove that this pup was born with the murmer and it was missed (that hasn't been negated yet, only specialist tests will rule it out) then the breeder needs to stand forward and take ownership. If it is something the pup has recently picked up then I completely agree its not the breeders fault at all, however i'd be taking one hell of a vested interest in it seeing as they are her bloodlines in this sick dog. I think if it were MISSED then the VETS are the one to blame. Had the breeder known they might not have sold the pup or sold it at a discounted price, but since they thought the pup was healthy and this was backed up by a second veterinarian!! For all intents and purposes according to the breeder the pup was healthy at the point of sale. If it was not missed then there is nothing the breeder could do and so I do not believe the breeder is at fault. I am in no way saying that as a breeder that I wouldn't give a refund etc, but that is my choice and I wouldn't think less of a breeder that didn't give a full refund etc. I don't think anyone can say that a breeder is responsible for keeping a pup healthy beyond the day that the new owners get it unless there is a family history of certain problems and they should be disclosed and what happens if they eventuate should be discussed. The breeder is showing interest- they want to be kept up to date? I am not sure what else you want the breeder to do? They want to know what the specialist says. I would hope that they expressed concern for the pup etc but as far as they are concerned the pup was healthy when it left. If breeders have to be responsible for vet bills up to one year of age I can't think of many that would still have litters...... We are not companies with insurance and mass produced identical products that can be replaced on the drop of a hat..... Edited November 29, 2011 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Just to make it clear I do not want the breeder to pay vet bills or replace the dog. I love the dog I have now and will pay any vet bills I need to pay. I just expect getting health certs for the dog and her parents and paying $1300 nothing would be wrong with her not anything major anyway. And if its genetic and in her lines I should have been warned about it prior IF she knew and now that it is in her lines I hope she does something about it and feels sympathetic for the situation I am in now. I am not out to get the breeder in anyway at all. I simply wanted information on here about heart murmurs and if any breeders could give me information on what to expect from the breeder if it turns out to be major health issue to the dog. If I went and bought it from a backyard breeder you would expect health issues at any stage I was just not expecting this to happen so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Krystal&coco - I really hope that things work out for you and your pretty little girl. You did all the right things in asking about health testing etc before purchase and are understandably upset that your girl may have a genetic problem. As you have stated until the tests are completed you will not be sure how much genetics are responsible for her condition. Unfortunately we get very attached to our dogs very quickly and the option of returning the pup and being given another is not an option for most people because of that attachment. Try not to stress too much until you have the test results - it may be that the condition can be very well managed with medication and she will live a normal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The breeder has reacted as I would expect & is probably worried sick. Keep me informed & worrying because it is the dogs first breeding & they have kept 2 would be normal response & its an awful shock if the lines were thought to be healthy & sound. You have no definite diagnosis yet, the heart murmur is a symptom of what you are not sure of yet. Give the breeder a chance to react more when you have more results. Right now you are in a panic naturally. Not all heart murmurs are serious. I had a dog live to 16 with a low grade heart murmur & no medication was ever needed. As it has only just been detected it may even be due to a virus etc. Keep us posted & fingers crossed for a good outcome. You will be playing the worst scenario in your mind. & it may not be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Also something that needs to be understood is that if one dog presents with a heart murmur in a line that has thus far been free of this condition all that really can and should be done in terms of what the breeder does re her lines is to ensure the affected dog is not breed from and that siblings, other pups from previous litters and those that are closely related be monitored. The breeder may perhaps choose not to combine that particular dog and bitch for a breeding again. But there is a saying "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". When I have bought a puppy in the past I have been given two weeks by the breeder in which to take the puppy to their vet to be health checked. I have always done this and I'm sure you did too by taking her to be vaccinated at 10-12 weeks and checked over. This is something I now put in my buyers contract. The fact that neither vet had picked up a murmur would suggest it was not present at the time and has been a recent onset. The puppy was sold in good faith and was believed to be in a good state of health. This has all come about 4 months later. The breeder may choose to discount the puppy since you plan to keep it but as it was not sold as a show prospect or breeding animal she has not failed in her agreement to you as such. Truly you have been very unlucky and these are the cards we are delt sometimes. My childrens stepbrother has recently been diagnosed with a heart murmur at age 21 and has recently undergone surgery meanwhile he has been an active , sporty boy with no health problems until recently. It had never been picked up despite seeing GP's during his childhood for various coughs, colds, broken leg etc. during those younger years. I hope that you get some good news from the cardiologist today. Edited November 30, 2011 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well guys we just got back and it is not good news. It is congenital so she was born with it and the disease she has is heriditory. As it was found so late her heart has detiriated hugely. It can be fixed with a $4500 operation and it comes with a 70% chance of her living a normal life. She will be on medication for about 6 months after and hopefully won't need it the rest of her life. So my partner and I are not real happy. We are happy she is going to be ok if the operation goes to plan she is extremely underweight which can affect the surgery and the specialist said it is because of her heart disease that she is underweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow, I'm so sorry it wasn't better news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 That's not the sort of news you wanted to hear. So sorry . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Oh that's not good news. Not meaning to upset you but did the Specialist give you any indication of the rate of survival during this operation? If her heart is so bad perhaps the alternative of medication for whatever time could be looked at? Sometimes I think we put our dogs through too much for our sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well guys we just got back and it is not good news. It is congenital so she was born with it and the disease she has is heriditory. As it was found so late her heart has detiriated hugely. It can be fixed with a $4500 operation and it comes with a 70% chance of her living a normal life. She will be on medication for about 6 months after and hopefully won't need it the rest of her life. So my partner and I are not real happy. We are happy she is going to be ok if the operation goes to plan she is extremely underweight which can affect the surgery and the specialist said it is because of her heart disease that she is underweight. That is very sad news. Please believe that the breeder will also be hit very hard by that news. She must be deteriorating rapidly compared to birth and this must be why it has not been picked up until now. How else could TWO vets both miss it earlier? 70% are reasonably good odds if you can get her healthy enough for surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Now the breeder better be stepping forward!! You poor thing and your poor puppy, this is definitely not a situation you expect to be in when you do the right thing and buy from a breeder with all the health checks. I hope she does the right thing by you and your family during this hard time. The puppy is lucky to have such doting parents. What a horrible situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 She is on medication now to prepare her for surgery. The specialist said if they did it right now the anaesthetic would be too much especially with the weight she is. But waiting the week and on the medication her pulling through the operation is 90%. With dogs they usually see and their hearts aren't as bad the odds are 95-97%. I asked why it would've been missed on her first 2 vet visits and he said the sound is continuous and when its a young pup jumping around all excited it can be missed. Where as heart murmurs that are not as serious the sound goes and stops and so on all the time. The specialists was very good said the breeder could contact him if they wanted and discuss Coco's issues and is also emailing me a letter with all the details which I can forward on to the breeder as well and she can take it to her vet if need be. He said if it was found at 6 weeks she would have been PTS so in a way it is a blessing to me they didn't find it. I will be out a lot of money but she has brought much joy into my life and she also gets to live a long happy life too if everything goes to plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Out of curiosity, what is the disease she has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 She has PDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 My partner spoke to the breeder and she is saying to get Coco PTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) I am little annoyed as all she has said is keep me up to date as I have kept two daughters from the same stud (my dog was is first litter) but she isn't worried about the $1300 pet she sold me that is going to cost me a fortune the rest of her life and could possibly die in a year which I have grown extremely attached to as anyone would she is my baby!! Any information will help thanks! Are you planning to breed from the 2 girls you kept from the same sire ?? Edited November 30, 2011 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sorry I did not keep the 2 daughters the breeder kept the girls to breed with. Sorry for confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Has she offered to refund any of your money or give you any compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Has she offered to refund any of your money or give you any compensation? give the breeder a break, she too has to digest all this infomation, it's devastating news all round for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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