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Dr Bruce Syme

Vets All Natural - Perfect Puppy Nutrition

395 posts in this topic

Red Fox   

Hi Lavendergirl,

We have released a roll into Woolworths and other supermarkets just in Victoria (for the immediate future) only 2 varieties available, adult dog and cat. The functional rolls (joint health, sensitive skin etc) should be out in about 4 more weeks in selected pet stores and vets. The delay is very frustrating for us so we appreciate how frustrated those looking forward to them must be.

Any chance that these will be available in SA?

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I am using the rolls available at Woolworths but was really hanging out for the sensitive skin, puppy etc rolls that will be available soon in pet stores. Can you tell me the difference between these and the rolls at Woolworths? Are the ones which are going to be available in pet stores a superior quality roll?

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Hi Lavendergirl,

We have released a roll into Woolworths and other supermarkets just in Victoria (for the immediate future) only 2 varieties available, adult dog and cat. The functional rolls (joint health, sensitive skin etc) should be out in about 4 more weeks in selected pet stores and vets. The delay is very frustrating for us so we appreciate how frustrated those looking forward to them must be.

Any chance that these will be available in SA?

Yes, when we release the pet shop/vet ones it will be Australia wide

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I am using the rolls available at Woolworths but was really hanging out for the sensitive skin, puppy etc rolls that will be available soon in pet stores. Can you tell me the difference between these and the rolls at Woolworths? Are the ones which are going to be available in pet stores a superior quality roll?

Hi,

The Woolworths rolls are limited by the range, only adult dog and cat. The pet shop/vet rolls will have much more choice. The pet shop/vet ones have added Chia seed for an omega 3 boost. They are both great quality rolls.

You could consider the WW rolls a base model and the pet shop/vet rolls more tailored for different requirements - such as age or dietary requirements.

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Red Fox   

Hi Lavendergirl,

We have released a roll into Woolworths and other supermarkets just in Victoria (for the immediate future) only 2 varieties available, adult dog and cat. The functional rolls (joint health, sensitive skin etc) should be out in about 4 more weeks in selected pet stores and vets. The delay is very frustrating for us so we appreciate how frustrated those looking forward to them must be.

Any chance that these will be available in SA?

Yes, when we release the pet shop/vet ones it will be Australia wide

Does that include Woolworths in SA? Thanks.

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Austerra   

I purchased a couple of rolls from Woollies to try, dogs seem to like it but I was just about dry retching with the stench of them. :vomit:

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Hi Lavendergirl,

We have released a roll into Woolworths and other supermarkets just in Victoria (for the immediate future) only 2 varieties available, adult dog and cat. The functional rolls (joint health, sensitive skin etc) should be out in about 4 more weeks in selected pet stores and vets. The delay is very frustrating for us so we appreciate how frustrated those looking forward to them must be.

Any chance that these will be available in SA?

Yes, when we release the pet shop/vet ones it will be Australia wide

Does that include Woolworths in SA? Thanks.

Yes, if they sell well in Victoria then they will go nationwide

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I purchased a couple of rolls from Woollies to try, dogs seem to like it but I was just about dry retching with the stench of them. :vomit:

Unlike any roll you have ever smelt before? :) The roll is simply the VAN Raw76 but pasteurised. While not 100% raw, and we still encourage people to feed raw, we have produced them in response to people who just don't like handling raw meat, and also for the section of the market buying 'supermarket' pet food in an attempt to give them something that Dr Bruce feels is much better balanced.

If you are a roll feeder try microwaving a portion of other rolls for 2 min, and then doing the same for the VAN roll. The VAN roll simply cooks, as it has no fillers, gelatin or expanders. Others which contain these 'bulking agents' end up in a gloopy mess.

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Austerra   

I purchased a couple of rolls from Woollies to try, dogs seem to like it but I was just about dry retching with the stench of them. :vomit:

Unlike any roll you have ever smelt before? :) The roll is simply the VAN Raw76 but pasteurised. While not 100% raw, and we still encourage people to feed raw, we have produced them in response to people who just don't like handling raw meat, and also for the section of the market buying 'supermarket' pet food in an attempt to give them something that Dr Bruce feels is much better balanced.

If you are a roll feeder try microwaving a portion of other rolls for 2 min, and then doing the same for the VAN roll. The VAN roll simply cooks, as it has no fillers, gelatin or expanders. Others which contain these 'bulking agents' end up in a gloopy mess.

If I feed roll it is usually Ecopet, but had been trying them on VAN wet mix, they loved the old mix (and so did I to handle and the smell) but one of mine won't touch the new Raw76 and I can't stand the smell or texture of it either, hence I decided to try the rolls but, sorry, although the dogs ate it, I was nearly throwing up with the stench. Is it due to the change in offal content? The smell of roo meat doesn't worry me usually!

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Guest lavendergirl   
Guest lavendergirl

Gosh I hope the health rolls don't pong too much. I can't stand to handle raw and I thought the rolls might be a good option.

Are they meant to be a total diet on their own?

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Guest Panzer Attack!   
Guest Panzer Attack!

I can't handle raw meat and the rolls are nowhere near as offensive to me as the Complete Mix (and Ecopet smells rotten to me LOL).

Went to the supermarket to buy another roll of it and it's completely sold out (at Chadstone Woolies), nooooo!!!! Will have to buy up next time! Could I feed the cat one? It's for a 3kg Papillon.

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clash   

I'm feeding my Black Russian Terrier puppy complete mix mixed with meats - he loves it - first thing he's really enjoyed eating.

I'm wondering about its suitability for large breed puppies and its calcium levels in general.

This site:

http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/CMsheet.pdf

Indicates that a 22kg puppy gets 250g of complete mix per day, mixed with meat.

This has 2400mg/kg of Calcium, for a total daily calcium intake (apart from the trace amounts in meat) of 600mg.

However, the recommended intake of calcium for a large breed puppy is 210mg per kg per day. (Solid references listed here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/ )

2400mg/kg is 0.24g/100g, so Vets All Natural is = 0.24% Calcium, which will get lower when mixed up with meat. That's a very low calcium diet.

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clash   

http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/images/stories/Products/raw76sheet.pdf

Clash I think the values there are when it's mixed with meat to the ratios on the packs, not just of the dry mix. The Raw76 range has enough calcium and comparable to the complete mix.

The raw76 has much more Calcium, it's at a level that seems right. However mixing Complete Mix with meat won't reach that level.

Meat alone has very little calcium (850g of minced beef has just 260mg of Calcium), so mixing Complete mix and meat isn't enough.1

I think the assumption is that you mix Complete mix with meat and give bones every day that must be chewed and swallowed to get the Calcium up to required levels.2 Or use with a calcium supplement like Vets All Natural Health Booster.3

I hope someone from VAN can help clarify.

Sources:

1 US Govt Dept of Agriculture, http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR17/wtrank/sr17a301.pdf

2 Vets All Natural, http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=103

3 Vets All Natural, http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101&Itemid=110

Edited by clash

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Nekhbet   

I meant on the original PDF you put up the calcium levels 'per serve' were the post mixing with meat levels, not just the levels in the Complete Mix product on its own.

The product is made to be mixed with mince not raw meaty bones.

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megan_   

I have asked the question before and was told there was NO assumption of feeding bones (even though Dr Bruce recommends it). If they assume you feed bones they need to change the packaging because it says the mix + meat provides a dog with all its nutrients.

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clash   

I meant on the original PDF you put up the calcium levels 'per serve' were the post mixing with meat levels, not just the levels in the Complete Mix product on its own.

The product is made to be mixed with mince not raw meaty bones.

That sounds great, if that is the case then I can rest easy now. The reason it is so unclear to me is how are they giving precise values of fat and protein content for the meat that isn't included.

The packaging should clarify this.

Suggestion:

If this is the case, then please change the packaging so that "Nutrition Guide Per Serve" is qualified. For example:

Nutrition Guide Per Serve*

* When prepared as directed using 95% fat free Kangaroo mince.

That would have saved me running around today looking for bone meal unnecessarily!!

I still would like clarification how the "per serve" values were calculated. It's a bit of a mystery with the lack of information.

Edited by clash

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anniek   

The roll is simply the VAN Raw76 but pasteurised. While not 100% raw, and we still encourage people to feed raw, we have produced them in response to people who just don't like handling raw meat, and also for the section of the market buying 'supermarket' pet food in an attempt to give them something that Dr Bruce feels is much better balanced.

so waht else is in it?

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I meant on the original PDF you put up the calcium levels 'per serve' were the post mixing with meat levels, not just the levels in the Complete Mix product on its own.

The product is made to be mixed with mince not raw meaty bones.

That sounds great, if that is the case then I can rest easy now. The reason it is so unclear to me is how are they giving precise values of fat and protein content for the meat that isn't included.

The packaging should clarify this.

Suggestion:

If this is the case, then please change the packaging so that "Nutrition Guide Per Serve" is qualified. For example:

Nutrition Guide Per Serve*

* When prepared as directed using 95% fat free Kangaroo mince.

That would have saved me running around today looking for bone meal unnecessarily!!

I still would like clarification how the "per serve" values were calculated. It's a bit of a mystery with the lack of information.

Thanks for explaining Nekhbet :) I will ask Bruce tonight to write a reply about why he decided on the current wording on the packaging.

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The roll is simply the VAN Raw76 but pasteurised. While not 100% raw, and we still encourage people to feed raw, we have produced them in response to people who just don't like handling raw meat, and also for the section of the market buying 'supermarket' pet food in an attempt to give them something that Dr Bruce feels is much better balanced.

so waht else is in it?

Nothing else is added, its just that it is pasteurised - therefore not entirely raw.

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